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doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 8:43:30 AM   
justhonest


Posts: 3
Joined: 10/28/2006
Status: offline 		due to a recent experience i had... i did met a so called DOM - but wasn't at all.
i did had to found out that he was a fake, a predator, a player - but hell not a Dom, Top, Master at all.

he use BDSM as an accusse to abuse women. in the meantime i spoke with some former women of him and they told me as well.

however - beside it is a big dissppointment ( and i have done some mistakes as well you should do as a sub - like checking references) and some personal issues the story involves... i did outted him - made my experience with him publically.
some of the lifestyle people told me about that he knew him before and that he was an abuser - but none so far one of his former women had the gut to stand up for what they saw is wrong.

for me - and that is something i really can not understand and confuse me to depths of my soul.
this lifestyle claims for themself honesty, trust, faith... and in telling the truth people attack you for outting out an abuser?
can anyone explain that to me?

or may i am just totally wrong in that lifestyle?

justhonest
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 8:45:26 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/m_1163969/tm.htm

one mans heaven is anothers hell


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There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

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(in reply to justhonest)
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RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 8:54:23 AM   
sirguym


Posts: 318
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline 		If somebody presents me with proof they are a criminal; and it is a law I believe that should be respected, if for instance they are abusing children, then I may act on that information and pass it on.

Otherwise, there is not a lot that can be done, but advise everybody to exercise the utmost care.

(in reply to colouredin)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 8:54:57 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		*sigh*
Perhaps if you got it out of your head that people in this "lifestyle" were supposed to be more honorable, honest, trustworthy,.. ect. than any other human you might have better luck.
The idea here is that you are an adult, who made a choice.  Unless this guy was a stranger and picked you up off the street and tossed you into the back of his van to abuse you, you had a part in chosing to be with him.
You see him as an abuser and maybe others would as well.  But there are just as many people who would enjoy being used. 
Kyst

(in reply to justhonest)
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RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 9:00:23 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Page: [1]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

*sigh*
Perhaps if you got it out of your head that people in this "lifestyle" were supposed to be more honorable, honest, trustworthy,.. ect. than any other human you might have better luck.
The idea here is that you are an adult, who made a choice.  Unless this guy was a stranger and picked you up off the street and tossed you into the back of his van to abuse you, you had a part in chosing to be with him.
You see him as an abuser and maybe others would as well.  But there are just as many people who would enjoy being used. 
Kyst


Exactly. Being kinky does not absolve you from all the faults and RESPONSIBILITIES of any other type of relationship.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Missokyst)
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RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 9:09:09 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		What you view as abusive may be someone else's dream relationship. The Man is my idea of perfect, but his ex wife thinks he was a control freak. He likes control and he likes indulging his girl, but that's at his discretion, not mine.

If this guy did something against your will, then call the cops. Otherwise it's your own fault for not negotiating what you would and wouldn't do. He plays harder than you do and you didn't bother to ask him ahead of time.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 9:30:16 AM   
RipenReady


Posts: 35
Joined: 12/3/2005
Status: offline 		I've had a very similar experience.  I played with a guy that was way to rough for me but I'm sure theres other people out there that enjoy that kind of thing.  I've talked to other people that had similar situations with him and he's in local groups in the area and a lot of people won't play with him.  He's a nice guy but you've got to be into what he's into to enjoy it.  It was my first time playing with someone and he scared the hell out of me and a lot of the things he did messed me up but I took it as a learning experience.  There's a lot of things that I did wrong and learned from and now I have a Master that is wonderful and who is helping me learn how things should be and how I should be treated.  So even though I thought at the time that it was abuse, theres a lot of things I've learned from it and have gained from it. 

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 9:32:17 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		G'day justhonest,

You are not the first and won't be the last to be conned by someone here or in the lifestylre in general. The lifestyle echoes what you find with people anywhere. Some are exceptionally good, genuine, honest and honourable folk, some are the complete opposite whilst the rest are your every day ordinary folk with faults and frigilities like everyone else. I know what it is to question your place in the lifestyle. Been there more than a few times when I've been cheated on and liued to by both the odd slave and the odd Dominant. I'm lucky because both my current and previous lifestyles (Victorian and Gorean) is not dependent on slavery or BDSM. I even had a cyber mate, a Master in the Uk who when I was sick in hospital, put the proverbial knife in my back and probably cost me an excelent gitl and a couple of good friends with hois lies.. Time proved me right about him to all involved. One thing I did which worked well was to just quit seeking potential slaves or even play partners for BDSM and lived my life as normal. In time OI found more people to mingle with which has it's rewards especially in learning more about areas of BDSM I had no knowledge of.

Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)


"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)


(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 9:44:36 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		So you got involved with someone you perceived as a dork- whether he is or not remains to be seen.  Whether you used any sort of responsible judgement in getting to know him remains to be seen.

You completely skip over the "Well yeah, I did some things wrong, and yeah there were some other issues, but what's REALLY important is that guy sucks and the whole world needs to know!" and then get surprised when not everyone hugs you and thanks you for being the paragon of compassion?

If he is an abuser, of course that is wrong.  But you can't expect people to be happy for you smearing someone else all over the place.  As far as reputations- I can name each and every "big name" in any large city and absolutely say that I could find five people who would say they are dangerous and you shouldn't play with them and that they abused someone in the past.

Stop making the lifestyle into something different and special.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 9:55:00 AM   
justhonest


Posts: 3
Joined: 10/28/2006
Status: offline 		just to make it clear and being on the same page

there exist some really good sides as well giving sub/slaves good advice how to protect when getting in touch with prospective Doms/Masters and they list the signs of abuse as well.
so please - i will not discuss here if someone play hard and i do not like.
i am talking of getting over hard limits, isolating you etc... typical signs you can find on every webpage...
beside some stuff i do not wanna like to list here.
it really confuse me that people , even when they have proof... close there eyes..
and then it just come in my mind... people do not wanna hear the truth..

is it just all about the blinky stuff?

i do have believes and values.. and heck i stand for.


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 9:56:31 AM   
LadyLolly


Posts: 140
Joined: 5/21/2005
Status: offline 		First, would like to preface that I'm sorry you had a bad experience, followed with hoping that you learned from it and once you've healed you will go forth the wiser for it.

Honor, honesty, truth, ethics, aceptance are all indeed the exaulted pillars of this lifestyle - the holy grail sought.  Does that mean that all who claim it understand and practice it perfectly (what ever that means)?  Of course not, anymore than all who call themself a dom or a sub (or pick what ever lable) are what they claim by your own personal definition and understanding.  This is why so many experienced persons spend the time over and over again urging caution, patience, practices and due diligence geared toward protecting those stepping out on thier journey.  Why do you suppose gaining trust and breaking trust is such a major issue?

By your own account - you discarded and rushed through to this without taking time to do what you should have done that would have helped to avoid this situation.  Now you're rushing out screaming about it and wonder why your "disclosure" isn't being taken seriously and applauded.   I'll tell you why.

One person's abuse is another's heaven.  Communication, taking the time to learn how to do that effectively and speak, listen, hear and understand and verify understanding is a critical skill in this. Too often some one goes streaking off into the wild blue yonder with stars in thier eyes, a song in thier heart and a pounding in thier loins - and with eyes and ears closed they rush in only to find out they missed something important. Ooooh shit!  Sometimes it is an abusive bent, sometimes it's simply miscommunication. I often say be careful what you ask for - reality in practice is a lot heavier than theory.   

Next time, take what you've learned and take more time.  Check references.  Communicate.  Talk.  Listen.  Discuss.  Take precautions.  Fools rush where angels fear to tread.  Don't be a fool.

With all this said, maybe he was abusive, a preditor,they are out there.  Then again maybe it's a case of miscommunication, mis-matched understanding and expectations.  You need to take your share of the responsibility in determining if it is appropriate for you to place your trust in an individual or not.

Best wishes in your journey.

(in reply to justhonest)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 10:00:29 AM   
MD1Master


Posts: 34
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline



Your experience is extremely unfortunate.  I am saddened that this has occured but also recognize it will occur to others in the future.  Do not doubt the lifestyle but rather learn from the experience.  Learn this from the Chinese:

"A journey of a thousand miles [not sure what unit of measurement was actually used, this came from translation], begins with a single step"

You have just taken another step in your journey.  Trust in the lifestyle, learn from your experience, and take another step.  Perhaps you pause for a bit, take a breath, but do not stop stepping.



(in reply to justhonest)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 10:03:18 AM   
khem


Posts: 300
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline 		The "lifestyle" is just made up of a bunch of individuals with their own set of beliefs and interests.  There isn't a BDSM police (god help us if there was).  There is, however, a REAL POLICE if someone did something out of line.  This notion of the local bdsm community having an obligation to do anything is a sure fire way to be disappointed.  Some groups do actively look out for the safety of its members by informing them of safety proceedures.  As for the finer points of relationships behind closed doors, they really shouldn't be expected to take sides or monitor behavior. 

Where was your safe call?  Did you negotiate?  How many times did you play?  Did you go back even after seeing signs that he was not ok? 

While your experience sounds scary, there are steps you can take to make sure it doesn't happen to you. 

< Message edited by khem -- 3/23/2008 10:04:33 AM >

(in reply to justhonest)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 10:06:57 AM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline 		If you believe that any particular group of people is going to be more honorable / responsible / moral (without getting into what those mean) than any other, allow me to disabuse you of that notion right now.  They aren't.

Regardless of the rest, never believe anyone is looking out for you other than yourself, and I think you will find yourself taken advantage of much less frequently.  Or perhaps I'm merely paranoid?

Ahem.


_____________________________

Send lawyers, guns, and money.

(in reply to MD1Master)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 10:12:35 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		There ARE people who are abusive and should be run out of the scene.  Frankly, lots of them, in fact, I was probably one of them when I first started in the "lifestyle" a word I despise by the way.  I was young, good looking, and charismatic and used women rather casually and tossed them aside for random reasons.  My first long term relationship was full of drama, we broke up and got together god knows how many times, we onetime got in such a nasty fight while on vacation, she ran away and hitchhiked home.  We were both nutjobs.

There are two women, one of whom is on CM who would probably say I am "out of control" as a dominant and both of those incidents were recent.  Both involved me deciding I wanted to play with them, and without negotiations, I reached out and grabbed their hair.    I think I was probably right but unjustified to the one that I did that to at a party and I apologized.  The other happened at a cafe and I feel I was justified and I haven't apologize other than for the misunderstanding because I don't feel what I did was wrong for reasons to complicated to go into here.

I am not big on negotiation,  you either want to play with me or not.  I am also not overly big on aftercare, if  you need tons of it,  we probably aren't in the same place. All quite uberdomish of me.  However,  I am also very touch feely and introspective, very UNuberdomish of me.  Some people love that, others can't stand it.

So, the problem comes down to who gets to play judge and jury over what is and isn't abusive.   Because of what we do, it gets a bit hard to define abuse.  There are women who truly want a man who will chase her down if she escapes although to me, I find that pretty fucked up on a whole lot of levels.  In my case, I would probably not want to associate with either party although if I believed the woman had truly changed her mind, I would side with her.  How about a man who backhands his partner if she mouths up, some very healthy people get off on that?    It isn't always easy to describe although, like obscenity, I know abuse when I see it.

< Message edited by SimplyMichael -- 3/23/2008 10:16:01 AM >

(in reply to LadyLolly)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 10:28:20 AM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline 		...please disregard, posted inadvertently.

< Message edited by Noah -- 3/23/2008 10:29:03 AM >

(in reply to justhonest)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 11:13:01 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		If you have beliefs and values why not try putting them into practice BEFORE you meet someone and not afterwards?

Haven't you ever thought that you're coming across to others like a whiny 4 year old toddler in some playgroup and not a responsible, mature adult?

Just asking..

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also Facebook
http://stella.baker.tripod.com/
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Simply Q

(in reply to justhonest)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 11:36:52 AM   
magicone


Posts: 53
Joined: 10/28/2006
Status: offline 		sorry... mistype

< Message edited by magicone -- 3/23/2008 11:38:11 AM >

(in reply to stella41b)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 11:53:08 AM   
TethersEnd


Posts: 102
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline 		You MUST trust yourself to make good choices and when you've made a bad choice you must look inside and find where you failed yourself.  ....  that for me has been the hardest thing about life in general, not just this lifestyle.  

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished.
~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to magicone)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: doubting the lifestyle... - 3/23/2008 11:55:29 AM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		If non consentual abuse occured and you negotiated berforehand and the terms were breached  the way to deal with it is thru legal channels and allowing the courts to determine if actual abuse occured .......   not by outing the person on the forums by playing judge and jury yourself.  

I have been violently abused myself but it was not in this lifestyle ....it was at the hands of my ex-husband  in the vanilla world who did things like slam my head into walls and floors, kneed and punched me inorder to cause me to abort,  threatened the life of our child and myself with a gun or knife to force compliance...even then I did hold some responsibility in what happened  because I agreed to marrying after only briefly dating him....I failed in taking the time to get to know him which is something I learned from to prevent situations like this from occuring again, he is responsible for his own actions and the courts  decided how he should be punished for them...not me ..for actions against me and his son he lost custodial rights to his child to another he abused he did jail time.  In many ways I do find this lifestyle to actually be easier and safer  to screen partners as it is the norm to spend time negotiating often even before meeting  for the first time and sure is a lot safer than  meeting people at bars


_____________________________

Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 20
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