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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/19/2008 11:27:49 AM   
TracyTaken


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quote:

are we sub/dom just by chance or by conditioning as in my case?


I suppose you could compare it to chocolate.  If you've never had any inkling that such a thing existst, you'd never miss it.

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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/19/2008 11:34:22 AM   
joy2u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searchin4love
are we sub/dom just by chance or by conditioning as in my case?


Speaking only for myself and my own experience, i have never known a time in my life that i have not been submissive, within my sexually intimate relationships, even the vanilla relationships and even before i had ever heard of BDSM or D/s.  That's not to say that i didn't have some 'conditioning' during my formative years, but i never had an issue with being submissive.  It's just how i was, am, and always have been.
 
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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/19/2008 11:37:24 AM   
colouredin


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I  agree its a bit of both, i have only been aware of BDSM for like 15 months, now I am aware of it I can see elements of submission in my nature way back when, of course I had no clue what it was back then, and now I do I believe I have embraced it and become more submissive.

I think that our past makes us who we are to an element but at the same time, I have two sisters and a brother bought up in the same enviroment and we couldnt be more differant.


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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/19/2008 11:46:26 AM   
masamichi


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i have been a sexual deviant since before the age of 5. i find that for most being that sexually aware at a young age is odd but i would still say that most people have a leaning toward being top or bottom and life shapes them into it. however i do know a couple that the Dom started dating her and he gradually molded her into a sub when she had no proir inclination.

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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/19/2008 1:41:15 PM   
yourbetters


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I believe God made slaves and Owners. slaves have a duty to fulfill God and obey their betters

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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/19/2008 2:10:08 PM   
slvemike4u


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This for me is a subject I usually avoid .It is my belief  that the seeds of my submission were planted by sexual abuse suffered when I was 8,after therapy and lots of introspection (often painful) i came to the conclusion that my abuse impacted who I became in a thousand different ways.To me my choices at that point were simple i could hate myself and all that i am,or decide for myself just how much control and power i was willing to give to a long dead pedophile so i stopped asking about the roots of my submission and decided instead to accept who and what i am.Since that point on  the question of nature or nurture to me is moot

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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/19/2008 7:13:47 PM   
stella41b


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One question I have here is, if when you are born you cannot stand up, you cannot talk, you cannot even coordinate your movements,  how can you be 'born' submissive?

Being dominant or submissive is really nothing more than a role, a way of communication and interacting with others, a specific set of gestures, body language, movements, patterns of thought, rituals, and activities through which one person can communicate to another 'I am in control here' or 'you are in control, not me'.

When someone identifies themselves as dominant, submissive, or switch, they are not describing themselves as people, but merely indicating their chosen or preferred role when interacting with someone else usually on a close interpersonal or intimate basis.

Just as with any role in life, be it mother, wife, teacher, or anything else it is acquired. The development of any role depends on a number of factors, experience, personality, circumstances, culture, language, background, your childhood, the way you were brought up and raised.

Some people are just naturally predisposed to one role or another, almost as if it's in their nature. This is very much in the same way as Robin Williams is an actor, Mozart was a musician, Joe DiMaggio was a baseball player. But all of these people had to still become who they were, either through training, study or practice.

Similarly some people seem to have become dominant or submissive almost naturally. Upbringing and how they were treated as parents is often a major factor. It might have even been acquired whilst they were still infants. Daddy dom at one years old might have been able to scream the house down, Mistress might have been that two year old with her fingers and hands everywhere, who nobody could leave alone just for a split second. Master at one year old might have been determined not to eat porridge, and no amount of attempts at spoon-feeding or games of 'here comes the choo choo train' would have succeeded in getting that oatmeal into his mouth. But then again, the reverse might be true. Who knows?  

For others there is a trigger, a major event in their lives, a trauma such as child abuse, domestic violence, and through coming to terms with this trauma and learning how to deal with it some people have acquired the role and it developed from there.

Sometimes it cannot be explained. It might even be linked to one's occupation. One thing I have never been able to explain for the life of me is the disproportionate number of people interested in BDSM who work in either healthcare or IT, or the number of women who identify themselves as Dommes who own dogs. I'm convinced that you can find someone who's kinky at your local hospital almost as easy as logging onto Collarme. But please don't take my word for it. It's just my assumption.

But you have the phenomenon of the 'shadow' Dominant or submissive, someone who is very dominant in their occupation, but who prefers to submit in private, or alternatively, someone who submits as part of their job, but who feels the need to be dominant in private.

This is why when I come across a 21 year old Master who claims to have 10 years experience I believe him. His experience is relative and if he feels confident enough that he has acquired the dominant role, then I for one am inclined to believe him. Same too with the naturally dominant woman. I attach as much weight to 'I am a 'born' submissive' as I would to someone described as a 'born' musician, it indicates to me that they have acquired the role so much it's part of their nature.

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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/19/2008 8:08:23 PM   
Casie


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I would have to say both. Although it is hard to say either way. I remember being a little girl playing with all my friends and the girls would fight over who would be the princess...I always wanted to be the prince's maid. Maybe I was starving for structure since I had little from my parents idk. Point is I've been this way as long as I can remember.

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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/19/2008 8:10:32 PM   
Arrrchibald


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My vote's for experience, conditioning, nurture, whatever you want to call it. 

I think everyone's hardwired with a potential for enjoying both. 

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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/19/2008 9:14:02 PM   
slvemike4u


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Stella41b can someone be born straight/gay ,certainly it's a valid question.Does a person come into the world with a predisposition for aggression which could if combined with other factors lead him/her to a pair of black leather chaps.Certainly one can observe in a litter of puppies how some will exhibit a more aggressive nature when sliding up to the teat,while others might allow themselves to be shunned aside

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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/19/2008 9:35:27 PM   
SaraZeal


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My vote goes that genes and such predispose someone to a range of things, experience and nurture narrows or expands that range.

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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/20/2008 12:58:57 AM   
DarkSilentWishes


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as children we are conditioned to submit to our elders... parents, teachers, relatives etc... Some of us seem to be able to do this much easier than others. I was the good kid... I listened to those whom I love and trusted. As I got older I learned that it's ok not to listen to certain ppl. Now, I only listen to those that I love and trust. I think that it is a mixture of both...

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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/20/2008 1:01:34 AM   
Justme696


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At OP

does it matter "by birth or condition"when you feel fine?

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RE: Submission: by birth or by conditioning? - 3/20/2008 7:13:31 AM   
amayos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: searchin4love

Most of the women are submissives ..its very hard to find a dominating woman specially in a country like mine..
Are we sub/dom just by chance or by conditioning as in my case?




If it can be proved physical characteristics are genetically passed from mates to offspring, why not behavioral characteristics? I think this is common sense, and matches well with what I have personally observed about pairings in humans and other animals.

Behavioral science as it relates to genetics is a murky place, for environment certainly does have an affect on any organism. We are all machines of survival, designed to adapt to environmental queues. It is for this reason I tend to say that under the right societal coincidences, anything can be perceived as normal. It's perhaps important to add that memory formation, retention and recall is a creative process in the brain, not akin to a computer reading data off a static hard drive. In this we are products of our physiology, but a physiology that is dependent upon environment, just like the process of our lungs taking in air is.

Regarding domination and submission, all humans have the ability to exhibit both. How and why one chooses to express one trait or another depends upon what is innate and learned in the individual; it really is a fusing of the two.

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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/20/2008 9:25:17 AM   
stella41b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Stella41b can someone be born straight/gay ,certainly it's a valid question.Does a person come into the world with a predisposition for aggression which could if combined with other factors lead him/her to a pair of black leather chaps.Certainly one can observe in a litter of puppies how some will exhibit a more aggressive nature when sliding up to the teat,while others might allow themselves to be shunned aside


What has being straight, gay or bisexual got to do with being dominant or submissive? I don't see a connection.

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RE: submission:by birth or by conditioning? - 3/20/2008 11:11:23 AM   
LilMissHaven


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I've honestly never really cared to look too deep into why I am happiest and feel most empowered on my knees.  I am what I am and thats all that I am.

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