Michigan/Florida do over? (Full Version)

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Level -> Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 3:52:45 PM)

quote:

Officials in Michigan and Florida are showing renewed interest in holding repeat presidential nominating contests so that their votes will count in the epic Democratic campaign.

The governors of both states, along with top officials in Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign, are now saying they would consider holding a sort of do-over contest by June. That's a change from their previous insistence that the primaries their states held in January should determine how the states' delegates are allocated.

Clinton won both contests, but the results were meaningless because the elections violated national party rules. Neither Clinton nor her rival Barack Obama campaigned in either state, and Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan ballot.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080305/ap_on_el_pr/primary_scramble



PlayfulOne -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 4:04:54 PM)

That is just insane.  Just count the votes that already were cast as the DNC has lost it over this one.  I know here in FL the whole reason for holding the primarty then was to have it on the ballet during a general election as to save the money of just holding the primary. 

K



KenDckey -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 4:07:55 PM)

Not everyone had their name on the ballot (my understanding from somthing I read once on Yahoo) because according to the rules, they weren't going to be counted anyway.   That aside, I think it would be a huge mistake for the DNC to change rules in mid stream.  



Level -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 4:26:47 PM)

A do-over would do severe damage to our already bloodied political system...... I hope common sense prevails.



celticlord2112 -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 4:42:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

A do-over would do severe damage to our already bloodied political system...... I hope common sense prevails.


Common sense would have been to not completely strip either state of delegates.  Denying the citizens of both states ANY voice at the convention was an act of utter stupidity.  Either a do-over, or ignoring the results, or seating the delegates based in the January elections--each scenario taints the process in its own way.

Michigan and Florida are likely to be "red" states come November.



Kirata -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 5:13:16 PM)

The voters in Florida and Michigan don't matter. It's questionable if any of them do. About forty percent of the Democrat delegates are Princes called "super delegates" who are free to ignore the voters in the primaries.
 
K.
 

 



Level -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 5:38:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

A do-over would do severe damage to our already bloodied political system...... I hope common sense prevails.


Common sense would have been to not completely strip either state of delegates.  Denying the citizens of both states ANY voice at the convention was an act of utter stupidity.  Either a do-over, or ignoring the results, or seating the delegates based in the January elections--each scenario taints the process in its own way.

Michigan and Florida are likely to be "red" states come November.



Yes, the process is tainted, and there's no way to truly fix that, for now.
 
Common sense..... if we really have it, as a nation, then we should consider doing some major weed-whacking on the system.



Level -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 5:41:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

The voters in Florida and Michigan don't matter. It's questionable if any of them do. About forty percent of the Democrat delegates are Princes called "super delegates" who are free to ignore the voters in the primaries.
 
K. 


The whole super delegate rigamarole is one of the things we should do away with.
 
Now, depending on what those "princes" do, would decide the importance of those other voters, to my mind. It's a great shame that it has come to this.



servantforuse -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 5:47:27 PM)

If the super delegates ignore Obama who has the lead and vote for Hillary all hell will break out at the convention. Minorities and the young voters will stay home feeling they were cheated in the process. It's a great time to be a Republican and getting more fun to watch every day....



celticlord2112 -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 5:51:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

A do-over would do severe damage to our already bloodied political system...... I hope common sense prevails.


Common sense would have been to not completely strip either state of delegates.  Denying the citizens of both states ANY voice at the convention was an act of utter stupidity.  Either a do-over, or ignoring the results, or seating the delegates based in the January elections--each scenario taints the process in its own way.

Michigan and Florida are likely to be "red" states come November.



Yes, the process is tainted, and there's no way to truly fix that, for now.
 
Common sense..... if we really have it, as a nation, then we should consider doing some major weed-whacking on the system.


The DNC could have avoided all this nonsense by mandating all states hold their primaries/caucuses on the same day. 

Putting the primaries in late April or early May, every state voting the same day, would end this bickering bullshit once and for all--for both parties, I might add.



Level -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 5:52:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If the super delegates ignore Obama who has the lead and vote for Hillary all hell will break out at the convention. Minorities and the young voters will stay home feeling they were cheated in the process. It's a great time to be a Republican and getting more fun to watch every day....


The sadist in me understands that..... but it would be hard to feel joy when the American political process is taking such a beating.
 
But..... maybe growth can come from pain.



cyberdude611 -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 6:25:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If the super delegates ignore Obama who has the lead and vote for Hillary all hell will break out at the convention. Minorities and the young voters will stay home feeling they were cheated in the process. It's a great time to be a Republican and getting more fun to watch every day....


If Obama gets into a knife-fight with the Clintons behind closed doors at the convention, you think he's getting out of there alive? No way... Hillary has wanted this her whole life and the Clinton have been planning this campaign for 2 decades. They will burn the democratic party to the ground before they give up.

And that's what will happen. Neither Obama nor Hillary can get get enough pledged delegates to win outright. So unless one side or the other backs down....this is going to the convention.



DominorSomnium -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 8:41:25 PM)

No way... Hillary has wanted this her whole life and the Clinton have been planning this campaign for 2 decades. They will burn the democratic party to the ground before they give up.

Excellent point. Neither of them give  2 shits about the people. they are both traitors.



Owner59 -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 8:53:37 PM)

yawn...



Lordandmaster -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 9:36:33 PM)

I thought the thread title referred to college sports or something.



Kirata -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/5/2008 9:42:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I thought the thread title referred to college sports or something.


Nahh, it's about a guy named Michigan and a girl named Florida.
 
K.
 



Level -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/6/2008 2:44:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I thought the thread title referred to college sports or something.


Urban Meyer could only wish it were.



pahunkboy -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/6/2008 5:00:01 AM)

PA ALSo wanted to move up its primary. but our state government abided by the rules and left it in place.  Why should we be penalized cos other states expected to flout the law?



orfunboi -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/6/2008 5:13:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I thought the thread title referred to college sports or something.


Nahh, it's about a guy named Michigan and a girl named Florida.
 
K.
 


Look at a map, if your going to assign gender, then I really think you should make Florida the guy.....

As to the do over, While I agree our primary was a joke and a waste of time for the democrats anyway, I don't see that redoing it will help any. Then they have to come up with someone to pay for it, cause Janet says we just can't afford to.



caitlyn -> RE: Michigan/Florida do over? (3/6/2008 5:18:05 AM)

General ...
 
It's fine to trash on the supers, but lets not forget the caucus system in place in some states. If we are to do away with supers, and make the system work similar to a general election, we also have to do away with the caucus system, that in many states, gives victory to the candidate with the most money to spend.



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