RE: not topping from the bottom

RE: not topping from the bottom (Full Version)

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Sundowner -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/5/2008 5:59:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum quote: ORIGINAL: lally3 does any of the above make any sort of sense. lallyx I am begining to wonder if some ppl put any thought into their post. Punistment is supposed to be not something you enjoi. and NO! BadOne Even tho you're a sailor, BadOne, and thus by definition a person to be respected, I couldn't sub to you {not an offer - an example - not an offer - an example} you're too hard and ruthless for me. Luckily I'm not a twue sub. But my point is that while most subs would find your ruthlessness attractive, not all subs want a hard and ruthless dom. ~picks lally up from where she sits sobbing in unhappiness from an unkind "NO", dusts her off and gives her a hug~ Easy BadOne - I could be as hard and harsh as a hard thing at you and you'd take it without noticing and come back at me harder still; and then want more. But chaps like lally may not be as easily able to take harsh posts. Simply being told "you're not making sense" can be unsettling and distressing. (And if I got it wrong lally and you were not drowning but waving, sorry).

lally3 -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/5/2008 5:59:07 PM)
[sm=banana.gif] i like this guy, finally worked out how to work the emoticons - the learning curves just keep coming. colouredin i know youre right - it must be all about focusing in on what your Dominant wants and allowing the power exchange to work its magic, wanting to please, knowing that they know its hard for you and your doing youre best. have to go to bed now, thanks again for a productive day. love lally

lally3 -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/5/2008 6:12:07 PM)
[sm=mrpuffy.gif][sm=mrpuffy.gif]what on earth are these. ~picks lally up from where she sits sobbing in unhappiness from an unkind "NO", dusts her off and gives her a hug~ sniff.... im fine thank you, though hugs are always good to get. BadOne doesnt frighten me[sm=boxer.gif]im cool. lallyxx

SailingBum -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/5/2008 7:20:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sundowner Even tho you're a sailor, BadOne, and thus by definition a person to be respected, I couldn't sub to you {not an offer - an example - not an offer - an example} you're too hard and ruthless for me. Luckily I'm not a twue sub. But my point is that while most subs would find your ruthlessness attractive, not all subs want a hard and ruthless dom. ~picks lally up from where she sits sobbing in unhappiness from an unkind "NO", dusts her off and gives her a hug~ Easy BadOne - I could be as hard and harsh as a hard thing at you and you'd take it without noticing and come back at me harder still; and then want more. But chaps like lally may not be as easily able to take harsh posts. Simply being told "you're not making sense" can be unsettling and distressing. (And if I got it wrong lally and you were not drowning but waving, sorry). Hey Sun, The majority of the posts are well thought out and have clairity. They typically don't end with "does this make sense" If you want to equate being direct and concise with being hard and ruthless go ahead. To my mind part of the problem with society today is ppl tend to "baby" others with feel good statements. Obviously I have zero patience for ppl that can't communicate to me in a clear manner. We agree to disagree. BadOne

TemptingNviceSub -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/5/2008 8:52:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness saying "no way Jose!" is not IMHO topping from the bottom ... I would personally choose a more subtle and informative approach but the sentence would have the same meaning. If communicating in the way established in the dynamic is "topping from the bottom" ... what kind of Top is it in the first place that can be "out Topped" by open and honest communication. Topping from the bottom can only happen if the Top lets it. It he makes an informed decision about how to go about punishing you with information you have supplied him with ... that is Domination ... If he allows himself to be manipulated by his bottom ... then that is topping from the bottom. Gets really pissy when open and honest communication is seen as "topping from the bottom" ... and then demonised .. it gives out the message to submissives that they cannot communicate their wants and needs and fears. This is DANGEROUS for someone new, and for a long time early on in the lifestyle I was very unhappy because I was frightened to communicate what I was thinking and feeling. The fear of being accused of "topping from the bottom" ... or of "being a brat" meant that I got myself into potentially damaging and dangerous situations .. and certainly rushed into things I was not ready for. Next time someone gets slammed for "Topping from the bottom" when they express their feelings and fears honestly .. people should consider the alternative .. and shudder [sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif]Brava!..took the words from my brain...the TFTB refrain has become a mantra that should be expunged...Tempting

lally3 -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/6/2008 1:35:26 AM)
Gets really pissy when open and honest communication is seen as "topping from the bottom" ... and then demonised .. it gives out the message to submissives that they cannot communicate their wants and needs and fears. This is DANGEROUS for someone new, and for a long time early on in the lifestyle I was very unhappy because I was frightened to communicate what I was thinking and feeling. The fear of being accused of "topping from the bottom" ... or of "being a brat" meant that I got myself into potentially damaging and dangerous situations .. and certainly rushed into things I was not ready for. hi sun, i think that when youre new the probability of ending up in the wrong hands is pretty high. i know that when i first started out, excited and keen as i was to find the right Dom and as careful as i tried to be i also ended up with the wrong Dom. luckily he wasnt dangerous, but his inability to 'hear' me and thus communicate blew the whole thing out of the water. and i think the reason he didnt 'hear' me or listen to me was exactly because he confused TFTB with open communication. i find it tiresome when Doms say theyre looking for a strong, characterful subbie and then proceed to squash them. that is their idea of dominance when in fact it isnt dominance atall. its more the sort of vanillaesque crap i chose to walk away from. what kind of Top is it in the first place that can be "out Topped" by open and honest communication. no top atall, which is why that lot dont allow communication. i have to say here that never at any time has the dom i am talking to stopped me communicating, he listens to every word i say and picks up on things between the lines too. one of the horniest things about Doms is how they seem to be able to keep a few steps ahead and how they remember things you forgot you said two days before. problem with your first steps out there is that you have no yard stick to go by. as they say, you have to meet one or a dozen frogs before you meet someone who knows what theyre doing and then theres all the rest of it, compatibility, attraction etc., its a shame theres no real way of helping newbies in the first flush of frenzy to know what can only be known through first hand experience. its the lucky few that get it right the first time. lallyx

SailingBum -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/6/2008 3:42:11 AM)
Yanno it gets tiring. Some ppl always blame the other as if they had no choice in who they are going to have a relationship with. At first blush they are "wonderful". Once the shit hits the fan they run for cover. I'm blameless, it's not my fault. Somehow the relationship fails for "whatever reason" blame always falls on the other person. When the reality is, it is their choice. They are at minimum half to blame when it goes wrong. In other words you made a poor choice. So "man up" take responsibility for your actions and deal. I know I know it's ruthless advice BUT it's not my fault. BadOne

lally3 -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/6/2008 7:02:48 AM)
So "man up" take responsibility for your actions and deal. I know I know it's ruthless advice BUT it's not my fault. and there i was blaming you for everything[sm=boohoo.gif]. i guess, if you bounce back and try again then theres nothing lost and lots gained. y'no, inspite of your gruff interior, i cant help liking you. lally

SailingBum -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/6/2008 7:12:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally3 So "man up" take responsibility for your actions and deal. I know I know it's ruthless advice BUT it's not my fault. and there i was blaming you for everything[sm=boohoo.gif]. i guess, if you bounce back and try again then theres nothing lost and lots gained. y'no, inspite of your gruff interior, i cant help liking you. lally Thanks I think... I was going to start a fan club but I'd get lonely BadOne

Nineveh -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/6/2008 4:08:20 PM)
I'm not sure why so many Doms are intimidated by communication. I usually find that a good sub is going to tell me the most effective ways of taking control of her, and can often suggest really effective punishments I would never have thought of. Of course, I may be bottoming from the top.

SlaveTurtleFL -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/6/2008 4:30:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nineveh I'm not sure why so many Doms are intimidated by communication. I usually find that a good sub is going to tell me the most effective ways of taking control of her, and can often suggest really effective punishments I would never have thought of. Of course, I may be bottoming from the top. i think we could use a general definition of what "topping from the bottom" is. i can suggest some examples.... "No, Mistress, um, use the new nine tails i just bought you." "i'm tired of that yellow rope -- i think i would look better tied up in that red rope." "Do You have to wear that purple corset? You know i hate purple!!" "Did You take out the garbage?" "That music You're playing sucks. i wanna hear some techno." "If You could would You mark the upper left corner of my sweet spot when You cane me? Right where my finger is pointing?" "Black nail polish again? How gauche." "i have to cancel the Session ... my other Dominatrix called." (Said in person while Mistress is preparing the room.) "i know this Session costs $200 for the first hour, but can You let it slide this time?" (Said to a Pro Dominant.) "Let's have sex instead." OK, maybe i'm not being serious enough.... [:D]

Nineveh -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/6/2008 7:45:34 PM)
laughing and imaging just how I might respond to some of those.

DesFIP -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/7/2008 8:50:42 AM)
You know, if you really won't like it, if you think you would start to resent him for doing this, then maybe a guy who gets off on this isn't someone you're compatible with. You are not a piece of white paper waiting to be filled up by him. You are a person in your own right who has every right (and duty, imo) to choose someone you like, someone who does things that fill you with delight instead of dismay. Me? If a guy I hadn't even decided if I wanted to spend 15 minutes drinking a chai latte with started with the set up to fail stuff, I'd pass. But I know me well enough to know that if that's his shining fantasy, while it is far from mine, I wouldn't have enough in common for either of us to compromise.

lally3 -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/7/2008 3:38:18 PM)
Hi desFIP You know, if you really won't like it, if you think you would start to resent him for doing this, then maybe a guy who gets off on this isn't someone you're compatible with. we have discussed the resentment that might build up with certain things, for me having my face slapped would just make me angry and not in the least bit submissive - its a small thing but a hard limit. i HATE that. some people love it or are ok with it, cool, but not for me - it sends me absolutely NUTS........ !! [sm=hair.gif]. i tried hard to convince myself that the scene he described would be a hard limit for me, but i couldnt - it boils down to one of those things that might be hard to submit to, but if, hopefully (by then, my Master) wishes it, i will. If a guy I hadn't even decided if I wanted to spend 15 minutes drinking a chai latte with started with the set up to fail stuff, I'd pass. i totally agree with you - i cant think of anything more likely to send me runing for the hills than being set up to fail purely as a means to facilitate a scene he would get off on and i would resent him for. but it wasnt/isnt like that. compatibility as you know is a really difficult thing here, particularly if youre looking for a long term D/s relationship. you have all of the bdsm possiblities and levels to go through as well as intellectual and sexual compatibility, then theres mutual attraction and all of the vanilla aspects of just being two people sharing a life - sense of humour, politics, future hopes and dreams and so on. i like this guy alot and all that he did in fact was create a scene for me to respond to, because ultimately he needs to know all of the above and where i am amongst it all. thanks to this great place and some brilliant advice i reached the conclusion that i could submit to that scene, it would be hard for me, but i wouldnt hate him for it and i wouldnt resent it. so, now, he knows that little bit more about me and ive learnt something too, about him and about my submission to him. lallyxx

lally3 -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/7/2008 3:56:49 PM)
and can often suggest really effective punishments I would never have thought of. Of course, I may be bottoming from the top. masochism at its purest!.... im not sure id be so generous myself...(smile). ive heard of some shockers. like cleaning the kitchen floor with a toothbrush... noooooooooo!, i cant even use a mop without dying of boredom. then there was the one i read where a true full on masochist bratted her way through the day in the hope of a good spanking and when the time came her dominant went through all the motions of panties down, otk with paddle in hand and then proceeded to tickle her with a feather. its all good clean fun in my opinion. lallyxx

juliaoceania -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/7/2008 4:04:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Food for thought. You're just talking to him. You haven't even met for coffee yet. And he's already going on about punishing you? Am I the only one who thinks that a relationship of mutual respect and trust must be established prior to a punishment dynamic being set up? Sigh. I thought it strange that limits would be brought up in regard to punishment, but since I do not get punished I figured this was why I do not get it

juliaoceania -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/7/2008 4:14:38 PM)
quote: as a relative newbie i wasnt sure if disliking something intensely was grounds enough to say no, since im the sub he's the dom and it was a punishment scenario. My advice is to find someone that meshes with your desires so well that you cannot tell where his will ends and yours begins. It makes submitting infinitely more rewarding when the occasional snag comes up to know that 99.9% of the time it is fun to be submissive. Being submissive does not equal martyr. It should be fulfilling. If my Daddy wanted to do something to me that I intensely disliked, I would and have done it (not sexually per se). But he has never ordered me to do something I disliked to correct me. We just do not have that sort of dynamic. Consider what you can live with, what you want, and then go about getting it. If a dominant that wants to focus on punishment and limit pushing isn't for you, then I would seriously stay away from those dominants that are into that sort of thing, they are out there and they will push you. Part of what made me trust my Daddy so much is that he isn't interested in the limits as much as he is interested in what we can do.

DesFIP -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/7/2008 6:09:27 PM)
Hi Julia I don't have any problems with limits being set in regard to punishment. I wouldn't have any problem being sent to bed without supper, for example, but a diabetic sure would. Plus there's always the twits who think that 'punishment' is an excuse to break a hard limit. Some people get flashbacks to scenes of early abuse if a certain implement is used, makes no sense not to limit something like that. Hell, I think safewords should be available too. I'd rather him have to find a different punishment if I'd been standing in the corner and got dizzy rather than stay there and pass out, hitting my head and requiring stitches in the ER. Shit happens and sensible people plan for that.

SinergyNstrumpet -> RE: not topping from the bottom (3/7/2008 8:38:53 PM)
Do not misunderstand me, I am not against punishment for other people. It is a common enough element of most D/s relationships. I realized rather early in my walk that it wasn't something I needed nor that I sought, but others have different needs. He manages to keep me in line without it. I will say he threatens me with certain punishments and it used to mindfuck me, now I just giggle and he laughs.[:D] Last time he ordered me to the garage to sleep behind the car.... I laughed really hard at that one

geodragon -> RE: not topping from the bottom (11/9/2010 4:50:58 PM)
ok I am new here sorry excuse the new guy...but what is topping? I can not find the answer anywhere. Thanks

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