Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (Full Version)

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CuriousLord -> Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 9:55:31 AM)

Clinton or Obama safer?  Ads go after 'scare' votes

In short:
-Clinton runs an ad about who children would be safer with in the event of a sudden emergency.
-Obama runs a parody, showing that he could've run the same ad but supporting his cause.

-Clinton argues her superior experience will lead to more safety.
-Obama argues that they've both already had a "red phone" moment, in the vote to invade Iraq or not, and cites that Clinton voted for while he voted against.

-Obama calls Clinton's angle here a scare tactic.
-Clinton says people in Texas aren't easily scared.


My thoughts:
Pro Obama:
-Clinton's showing yet more willingness to use dirty tricks to win votes.  I'm tired of her manipulative nature.
-Obama's taking a surprisingly high road, showing that Clinton's tricks are just dirty.

Pro Clinton:
-Conservative voters are used to the sorts of things Clinton's doing and many do scare pretty easily.  People are also more used to politicians doing this sort of thing; it's more normal.  Even if Obama's a better person, Clinton might stand better in a general election.

Points of question:
-Does Clinton actually have that much more experience than Obama?
-If elected, will Clinton pull the same self-serving agenda Bush has?
-If elected, will Obama's sincere approach work in office?
-Will people be taken in by Clinton's political tactics?

quote:

Clinton or Obama safer?  Ads go after 'scare' votes  -Sun Times

Sen. Hillary Clinton sparked a war of words with rival Sen. Barack Obama by launching a striking new TV spot here that says voters' children would be safer with her answering the "red phone" that could ring at 3 a.m. in the White House with news of a national security threat.
Obama claimed Clinton was using fear to scare up votes with the ad. And by Friday afternoon his campaign had whipped up a copycat ad also showing children asleep in their beds and asking voters who can best keep those children safe if the "red phone" rings in the White House at 3 a.m. The answer in his commercial is: Obama.

In this state with a disproportionate share of veterans and active military, both candidates courted that constituency Friday.
"Sen. Obama says that if we talk about national security in this campaign we're trying to scare people," Clinton told supporters at a rally in Waco surrounded by veterans. "Well I don't think people in Texas scare all that easily."
Obama, talking to veterans in Houston, said, "In fact, we have had a red phone moment. It was the decision to invade Iraq. Sen. Clinton gave the wrong answer. George Bush gave the wrong answer. John McCain gave the wrong answer."
Flush with campaign cash -- Clinton raised $35 million in February and Obama was expected to collect some $50 million -- both candidates are saturating the airwaves with commercials in Texas and Ohio in advance of Tuesday's important primary elections in these delegate-rich states.
Obama's campaign says Clinton needs to win both states by big margins to have any chance of catching up to his lead in delegates to the Democratic National Convention.
Clinton campaign manager Howard Wolfson said a better way to look at Tuesday is that if Obama loses either state, or Vermont or Rhode Island, then that means voters -- who handed Obama the last 11 straight contests -- are starting to have "buyer's remorse."
Clinton mocked Obama's credentials to be commander in chief, saying: "There's a big difference between delivering a speech at an anti-war rally as a state senator and picking up that phone in the White House at 3 a.m. in the morning to deal with an international crisis."



Normally, I hate politics.  It's a dirty game in which half the people are ill-informed, arguing with the other half who are also ill-informed.  I think I'm driven to concern about this because, for once, there's a candidate who appears to me to be far more honest.  It's alien to me to be debating a topic that I may not have all the facts on, but the prospect of having an honest politician's just too rich.




farglebargle -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 9:59:40 AM)

quote:

-Clinton's showing yet more willingness to use dirty tricks to win votes.


"Dirty Tricks" are when you have your opposition Bugged and Murdered.

Which party is bugging the entire US? (1) But then again, "What about Vince Foster(TM)"

But it's *not* simply running negative ads.

But the entire topic is pointless, since the election is fixed well in advance. This is all just a show for the gullible who believe.

(1) Trick Question: The RNC couldn't get away with it if the DNC wasn't playing along.




cyberdude611 -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 10:00:52 AM)

Ask this question again when Iran, China, and Russia walk all over us diplomatically. Those countries wont fall for Obama's words the way his cult followers are in the democrat party.




CuriousLord -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 10:04:37 AM)

So you're going with the view that Obama would try to talk things in out in vain instead of taking action when necessary?




Sinergy -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 10:08:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

So you're going with the view that Obama would try to talk things in out in vain instead of taking action when necessary?


Not to mention taking action when it is not necessary.

Sinergy




farglebargle -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 10:09:27 AM)

China walks all over Bush's government -- They sell our children poison toys and our pets poison dogfood.

Russia -- Do you think they give a shit anymore after Bush fucked up Kosovo? Sending the message, "The Chechnayans are RIGHT". Of course, it makes his approval of Turkeys invasion of Central Kurdistan hard to understand... Why the Kosovars, but not the Kurds???

Does anyone even believe The State Department has a purpose anymore, except providing excuses?

We *could* use someone who was able to act diplomatically.

Of course, that presumes the whole thing isn't fake, which it is.





CuriousLord -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 10:11:04 AM)

I was under the impression that Clinton was the one who was fairly pro-China?




domiguy -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 10:18:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Ask this question again when Iran, China, and Russia walk all over us diplomatically. Those countries wont fall for Obama's words the way his cult followers are in the democrat party.


lol...Poor cyberdude. It must suck to have to wish for the opposing party to fail. I'm sure there will be disappointments along the way...Nothing could probably be worse then what we have just endured. The benchmark is now set so low that anything in contrast to the last eight years would have to be deemed a success. McCain is an old pud.

Obama holds promise...Only time will tell whether he can be successful or not...It's good to know as a strong supporter of the mother fuckin' U..S of A.. that you are hoping for him to fail...Don't worry you have other brilliant company in your corner....Does celticlord live in your neighborhood? Perhaps you two could meet for lunch. I'm sure the conversation would be riveting.




awmslave -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 10:20:38 AM)

Mrs. Clinton has already lost. Next Tuesday will make it formal. Obama is simply better candidate; there is nothing she can do at this point.




farglebargle -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 10:23:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

Mrs. Clinton has already lost. Next Tuesday will make it formal. Obama is simply better candidate; there is nothing she can do at this point.


"Lost" is a relative term. She was never in it to win, since she's taking up that Senate Seat for New York...

the fucking Carpetbagging Cunt. At least Chuck is from Brooklyn.

And Obama won't win, but he's guaranteed another couple of years in the House, and a long, profitable career in Washington.

That ain't exactly Losing.

And President McCain gets a nice pat on the back and a 4 year run as a "Thank You" for not really pushing the campaign against Bush.





domiguy -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 10:28:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

Mrs. Clinton has already lost. Next Tuesday will make it formal. Obama is simply better candidate; there is nothing she can do at this point.


"Lost" is a relative term. She was never in it to win, since she's taking up that Senate Seat for New York...

the fucking Carpetbagging Cunt. At least Chuck is from Brooklyn.

And Obama won't win, but he's guaranteed another couple of years in the House, and a long, profitable career in Washington.

That ain't exactly Losing.

And President McCain gets a nice pat on the back and a 4 year run as a "Thank You" for not really pushing the campaign against Bush.




I don't know why people can so easily discount Obama...I'm fairly confident he will be our next Pres...I'm rarely wrong.




slaveboyforyou -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 10:29:26 AM)

quote:

-Does Clinton actually have that much more experience than Obama?


No she doesn't.  Hillary's claims of experience all have to do with being married to Bill Clinton.  Her claims are akin to a heart surgeon's wife showing up at the hospital claiming to be qualified to perform open heart surgery.  Her experience is as a Senator and as a lawyer.  One of the things that rarely gets mentioned about her was her election to the Senate.  She is only one of a handful of Congressmen that never held any other prior political office.  Most people have to spend years getting experience at the local and state level of politics before they run for a national office.  Hillary has never done that, and she has never had to learn the lesson of humility. 




cyberdude611 -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 10:36:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Ask this question again when Iran, China, and Russia walk all over us diplomatically. Those countries wont fall for Obama's words the way his cult followers are in the democrat party.


lol...Poor cyberdude. It must suck to have to wish for the opposing party to fail. I'm sure there will be disappointments along the way...Nothing could probably be worse then what we have just endured. The benchmark is now set so low that anything in contrast to the last eight years would have to be deemed a success. McCain is an old pud.

Obama holds promise...Only time will tell whether he can be successful or not...It's good to know as a strong supporter of the mother fuckin' U..S of A.. that you are hoping for him to fail...Don't worry you have other brilliant company in your corner....Does celticlord live in your neighborhood? Perhaps you two could meet for lunch. I'm sure the conversation would be riveting.



Im not hoping he will fail....I just know he will fail.

Obama (and Hillary as well) supports a stronger and bigger federal government. That's actually the problem, not the solution. Government is way, way too big. It was Thomas Jefferson that stated that "the government is best which governs least." The government cannot even properly manage medicare, yet it's going to manage a universal healthcare program? What are you smoking?

Everyone keeps think government is the bandaid for all our problems. So we just simply add one beaurocracy after another until we end up with a massive federal government that is spending money it doesn't have like crazy.

And as for foreign policy? The Jimmy Carter diplomacy failed in 1979 and it will fail again in 2009.

Dont confuse realism with pessimism. I'm a realist. And the reality is that America is in big trouble in November because the average voter is stupid and wants nothing but a nanny state. And they will be sorry....very sorry.




luckydog1 -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 10:40:59 AM)

I don't know, having to lie about her husband regularly cheating on her, must be pretty humbling.

It looks to me like Obama has Hillary beat for the nomination.

Much as I could dream about Hillary using the Superdelegates to overrule the members of the party to un democratically take the nomination, causing the party to implode.  It doesn't look likely now. 

Then the race becomes Obamas to lose (or win).

I would much rather face Hillary in the General then Obama. 

But listening to his recent stuff, he seems to not understand that there is a difference between the Taliban and Al Queda.  And when it gets serious, he may look a fool.  Or maybe that is wishfull thinking on my part.  Time will tell.




popeye1250 -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 11:03:27 AM)

CL, that's the problem with Washington, there are too many people there with too much "experience!"
It's not supposed to be a "career!"
We really do need term limits.
Two for a senator, (12 years) five for a congressman (10 years).Then "GO HOME!"
The only "experience" they need is to be good listeners to their constituents.
"Experience" in what?
Both Obama and Clinton are lawyers with no management experience.
This is why it's always preferable to have governors, military people or business people running for president. They've actually managed something.
Hillary says that she knows all kinds of foreign officials and leaders.
So?
What does she plan on doing, giving more of our money to foreign countries?
Hopefully whoever gets in the w.h. of these three boobs will just be a one termer and we can get a president in after that who cares about America for once.
A president is supposed to be a manager, not a leader.
Keep the various govt agencies working smoothly unlike Bush.
It seems that they're all applying for the wrong position.
Our govt. is not there to "lead" The People.
It is there to "serve" the people.

Three hundred million people in this country and we end up with McCain, Clinton and Obama running for president? Damn!
Why do we always have "politicians" running for president?
We need another Eisenhower in there.
Or, a secretary or a truckdriver. Surely an Accountant.




christine1 -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 11:09:23 AM)

i don't like any of the choices, this is the worst it's been in my opinion.  i don't know if there is a candidate that is really honest and isn't going back and forth just to please the crowd they are talking to.  i find it tiring and disguisting.

so, anyone want a waffle?  they're really gooooood!




Jeffff -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 12:03:48 PM)

If only the candidates were Mrs. Butterworth and Aunt Jemima!

" A waffle on every plate"


Jeff




christine1 -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 12:10:52 PM)

hmmm...waffling back and forth between mrs. butterworth and aunt jemima....decisions, decisions.....

ok nevermind, i'll take the butter and powdered sugar and whipped cream!  oh hell, now my mouth is going to have a psuedo orgasm just thinking about it!  heh.




domiguy -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 12:20:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

i don't like any of the choices, this is the worst it's been in my opinion.  i don't know if there is a candidate that is really honest and isn't going back and forth just to please the crowd they are talking to.  i find it tiring and disguisting.

so, anyone want a waffle?  they're really gooooood!


Are you crazy? The worst it's been? Hows about Bush or Kerry? Yikes! What in the fuck was that?


"Yikes" Is kind of a cool word...Not utilized nearly enough.

My name is Domiguy and I authorize this post.




christine1 -> RE: Hillary cries 9/11, Obama counters w/ Iraq (3/1/2008 12:25:40 PM)

i see and understand your point domi...i wasn't thrilled between those 2 choices either.  for some reason these 2 seem scarier to me.

do you like waffles?  want a taste?  great with coffee....




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