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Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 3:28:46 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Obama's Mercenary Position
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080317/scahill

(Excerpt, first paragraph:)
A senior foreign policy adviser to leading Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has told The Nation that if elected Obama will not "rule out" using private security companies like Blackwater Worldwide in Iraq. The adviser also said that Obama does not plan to sign on to legislation that seeks to ban the use of these forces in US war zones by January 2009, when a new President will be sworn in. Obama's campaign says that instead he will focus on bringing accountability to these forces while increasing funding for the State Department's Bureau of Diplomatic Security, the agency that employs Blackwater and other private security contractors.

-----

You want change. You hope for a near reversal in the suicidal socio-economic trends in U.S. policies. You vote for the candidate that you think is going to forestall a violent revolution by navigating us through a peaceful one instead.

What you get instead is another corporate cock-sucking, loser, ass-wipe like Obama. Shit-eating Obama is up to his eyeballs in corporate money and favors that need to be paid back. And if you get Candidate Clinton instead, it's just more of the same. Why even discuss it? Oh yeah, she's going to roll back NAFTA - when it's passage was the supposed feather in the hat of her husband's political legacy. Right...!

So what's the fucking difference between either of these fucktards and any brand of Republican Bush Lite?

If that's change you might as well vote for McCain and his thousand years of war. The shit is going to hit the fan eventually and it might as well spatter those most responsible: the Republicans and their war on everything that made America great.

Do please note the use of the past tense there.

What keeps me laughing is that a lot of you think these candidates represent any real choice. These candidates are all in the middle and to the right. There is no left. There isn't one among them that is going to vote for middle-class America, the worker, and the kinds of liberal democratic policies that will bring us back to a prosperous USA. These candidates represent the de facto plutocracy. It's over. The subject is now exhausted.
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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 3:42:01 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

It's over. The subject is now exhausted.



So, no more of these threads?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to SugarMyChurro)
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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 3:46:05 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Not necessarily. But I will admit I don't think there is any point to them except to vent my spleen.

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 3:47:20 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		I understand, that's why I post some things as well. You usually bring an interesting POV on things, even if I don't always agree with it.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 3:50:10 AM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Ummm......Before leaving the field of military contracting I worked for two of Blackwater's major competitors.  I have spent time in several foreign countries under the contracts you describe and a LOT of others.


That said, your conception of the issue with VERY limited.  The State Department is an extremely tiny portion of the work.   That is all personal security details or PSDs and transport operations which are typically subcontracted out to operations like SkyLink.   While such operations have insanely high proffit margins, the people being protected are very high value targets with insanely high profiles.   The State Department work looks good on a corporate brochure and opens a lot of doors, but it doesn't pay the bills.

It is contracts to the government of Iraq, contracts to maintain perimeter security on U.S. military posts, convoy escorts, etc. that pay the real money.   The margins are smaller, but so is the risk and exposure.

Contracts such as these date back to the revolutionary war when General Washington contracted convoys of wagons for supplies.  In the early days of WWII, the number of security contractors hired by the U.S. was astounding as was the pay rates.   Vietnam was even more insane because we hired them to do offensive operations.   Today (and in most operations past) contractors are hired for defensive operations to free up the active duty for offensive operations and patrols.

When you go to war, you need resources that you don't have and the quickest way to get them is to hire security specialists (e.g. former military people who are working for para-military companies.)  


On a final note, if you want to see how desperate we REALLY were......look to the South African mercs that the state department hired in the early days of the war.    Several of them were later captured during an attempt to overthrow the government of Congo.

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 4:12:14 AM   
joy2u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro-----

You want change.

What keeps me laughing is that a lot of you think these candidates represent any real choice. 


If anyone can cite one example of a time in our history when any "real change" took place in Washington simply because there was a new person sitting in the Oval Office, then the idea of creating change now by electing one candidate over another, regardless of party affiliation, might have some validity.  Washington works they way it has always worked, regardless of who's name is stamped on the letterhead.  It's bigger than one person.  It's a system.
 
The article was interesting.  Thanks for the link.

quote:

It's over. The subject is now exhausted.


Not likely.  Politics and religion will always be subjects for debate and discussion.
 
joy
Owned servant of Master David

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 4:17:57 AM   
HaveRopeWillBind


Posts: 514
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Status: offline 		Yesterday NPR had an analysis of the Senate voting records of Obama and Hillary. They had only voted differently on one issue. Obama favored more ethanol production (he's from a farm state) and Hillary opposed that in favor of other alternatives. So if they are voting the same on all other issues how can Obama claim to be the candidate of change?

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 4:18:07 AM   
Muttling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joy2u

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro-----

You want change.

What keeps me laughing is that a lot of you think these candidates represent any real choice. 


If anyone can cite one example of a time in our history when any "real change" took place in Washington simply because there was a new person sitting in the Oval Office, then the idea of creating change now by electing one candidate over another, regardless of party affiliation, might have some validity. 



Bill Clinton........He shut down the Federal Government and sent all "non-essential" employees home to MAKE congress come up with a balanced budget.  

I was born in 1969 and he is the ONLY president since the day of my birth to have the balls to make it happen.   All of the other crap heads could have done it, but NONE of then have in my life time.


I want a president (Democrat or Republican) who has the courage to do that and I want him/her NOW.

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 4:20:27 AM   
Muttling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

Yesterday NPR had an analysis of the Senate voting records of Obama and Hillary. They had only voted differently on one issue. Obama favored more ethanol production (he's from a farm state) and Hillary opposed that in favor of other alternatives. So if they are voting the same on all other issues how can Obama claim to be the candidate of change?



Their stance on issues are quire similar if not identical.   It is only foreigh policy that seems to seperate the two.  This has been the story from day one.   That said, where does McCain fall into the mix????

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)
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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 4:27:12 AM   
HaveRopeWillBind


Posts: 514
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Status: offline 		McCain's willingness to fight 'em all forever pretty much makes him an invalid candidate in my opinion. Of course since all three want to throw open the borders and issue driver's licenses to illegals and provide them with social services as well I have to pretty much conclude they are all unacceptable to be running the country.

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 4:33:09 AM   
Muttling


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

McCain's willingness to fight 'em all forever pretty much makes him an invalid candidate in my opinion.




You should read very carefully his statements in this regard as he did not state a willingness to fight forever.   Troops deployed to a peaceful Iraq forever, yes.............Fighting a war in Iraq forever no.


We still have troops deployed to Japan.  They have been there since 1945, but you don't seem to be upset with their deployment.

< Message edited by Muttling -- 2/29/2008 4:34:53 AM >

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 6:27:40 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
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Status: offline 		Obama just seems like another Tony Blair to me only more dangerous because he will be the most powerful person in the world if he gets elected.

Obama is pretty lightweight on ideas and is doing all he can to avoid saying what he stands for, just like Tony Blair.

Blair was always going on about change, the only thing that changes was whose snout was in the trough. Good talker but a totally empty vessel.

And if I'm right and Obama is like Tony Blair, get ready for a few more wars. Only in pursuit of making the world a safer place of course.

Oh, and he'll be a lying two faced bastard, only interested in his own career and bank account and fuck the country and its people.

Why people fall for this shite I'll never know. When Blair became leader of the Labour Party, I told myself, that's it, I'm not voting for any of the shite, democracy has to be fought for outside professional politics. If I was American looking at Obama, I'd be thinking the same.

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 6:55:21 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		OP, Jeremy Scahill is heroic in his jurnalism.

I dont view this as --necessarily bad.  We NEED oil.   I am however  mad at the   sloppy  disregard and wastefullness    of  energy    gluttony.    Cars should get  80 miles to the gallon.   they  could but dont.  it is a joke that our warriors are lossing life and limb when  the  powers  that be are fighting california emissions standards.   which are  if allowed same as chinas.

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 8:39:32 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

Bill Clinton........He shut down the Federal Government and sent all "non-essential" employees home to MAKE congress come up with a balanced budget.  



Out here in California we (the voters) have put into place two laws.

1)  The budget must be balanced.  The Governator did the shut down the government thing too.  Good for him.

2)  The state government cannot borrow money to balance the budget.

The rest of you people should try this in your states. 

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 9:44:24 AM   
HaveRopeWillBind


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling
We still have troops deployed to Japan.  They have been there since 1945, but you don't seem to be upset with their deployment.


That's because they actually attacked us first. (Okay FDR pressured them in a lot of ways, but they still threw the first stone.) I do have a problem with keeping troops long term in a country that never threatened us. Not to mention that I believe McCain will extend the Iraq war to Iran and Syria rather quickly if he wins the election.

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 11:48:16 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling
We still have troops deployed to Japan.  They have been there since 1945, but you don't seem to be upset with their deployment.


That's because they actually attacked us first. (Okay FDR pressured them in a lot of ways, but they still threw the first stone.) I do have a problem with keeping troops long term in a country that never threatened us. Not to mention that I believe McCain will extend the Iraq war to Iran and Syria rather quickly if he wins the election.


The Assad regime in Syria has a relatively weak control over their Sunni majority in their country.  Odds are fairly good we will see a continuation of the 1970 revolt. 

Iran is a nice target only because they have lots of oil.  Problematically , the US military is overstretched dealing with Iraq, and not in a position to try to hold Iran as well.  Besides which, I tend to doubt the people who buy Iranian oil would sit buy and let the US do to it what we did to Iraq.  At least in Iraq, sanctions against the country since the 1990s had not made them a vast oil producer.

I would not put it past McCain to keep sabre rattling, I just dont think he would have the ability to do anything about it.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 1:23:27 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Churro, there is no difference, they're both "Bush Lite."

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 2:25:00 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/02222008/watch.html

this link denotes how campagne contributers happens within days of ear marks [govt ordering stuff it may or may NOT need!]
this has run a muck.

it needs to stop. so ideas?  lets make it stop.



quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Churro, there is no difference, they're both "Bush Lite."

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 5:45:03 PM   
cloudboy


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I think Obama wants to change the political climate and rhetoric coming out of Washington. Although this may sound lightweight, it is a much needed medicine our political system needs.

If we go toward a system of reasoned cooperation and transparency --- it will go a long way to heal the damages caused by the Bush Administration and the Republican hard right.

The political realities at hand are not pretty: 1) a subprime mortgage crisis and economic slowdown; 2) the quagmire of IRAQ; 3) a horribly imbalanced federal budget; 4) and the aging demographic of the baby boomers.

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RE: Obama: What the Fuck is the Difference? - 2/29/2008 5:46:41 PM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I think Obama wants to change the political climate and rhetoric coming out of Washington. Although this may sound lightweight, it is a much needed medicine our political system needs.

If we go toward a system of reasoned cooperation and transparency --- it will go a long way to heal the damages caused by the Bush Administration and the Republican hard right.

The political realities at hand are not pretty: 1) a subprime mortgage crisis and economic slowdown; 2) the quagmire of IRAQ; 3) a horribly imbalanced federal budget; 4) and the aging demographic of the baby boomers.


I'd vote for him just for messing with "business as usual" in DC.

It's about time.

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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