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Bush wants invaders out of Iraq - 2/28/2008 8:16:54 PM

Owner59

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080228/ts_afp/usbushpoliticsturkeykurds

"The Turks need to move quickly, achieve their objective and then get out... as quickly as possible," he said.

Why doesn`t Bush take his own advice?

It`s good advice after all.

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RE: Bush wants invaders out of Iraq - 2/28/2008 8:43:25 PM

cyberdude611

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Because the Iraqi government wants/needs us there....not the Turks.

The Turks have the potential to cause a lot of problems in the north which has been reletively calm with only a few flare ups from the PKK who have made several vigilante attacks across the Turkish-Iraqi border. A new report from a news agency in Iraq states that the PKK have captured nearly 200 Turkish soldiers (I dont know the credibility of that agency so I'd take it with a grain of salt for now). There is conflicting numbers coming from both sides on killed, captured, and missing. But if true, Turkey is obviously having trouble up there and is not eliminating the PKK.

I doubt we get in the middle of that shooting match. It would be too problematic. But I think if Turkey doesnt hurry up, we will start demanding they withdrawl. And if we and the Iraqi government both demand they get out, Turkey is basically on their own because this was not an authorized incursion by NATO or the UN. They'll risk their NATO membership.

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 2/28/2008 8:45:53 PM >

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RE: Bush wants invaders out of Iraq - 2/28/2008 9:07:58 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Because the Iraqi government wants/needs us there....not the Turks.

The Turks have the potential to cause a lot of problems in the north which has been reletively calm with only a few flare ups from the PKK who have made several vigilante attacks across the Turkish-Iraqi border. A new report from a news agency in Iraq states that the PKK have captured nearly 200 Turkish soldiers (I dont know the credibility of that agency so I'd take it with a grain of salt for now). There is conflicting numbers coming from both sides on killed, captured, and missing. But if true, Turkey is obviously having trouble up there and is not eliminating the PKK.

I doubt we get in the middle of that shooting match. It would be too problematic. But I think if Turkey doesnt hurry up, we will start demanding they withdrawl. And if we and the Iraqi government both demand they get out, Turkey is basically on their own because this was not an authorized incursion by NATO or the UN. They'll risk their NATO membership.

That`s the point.

We can`t even keep the Turks out.

How the hell is just one country going to be able to do anything ?

Our soldiers have achieved their objectives and should be withdrawn.

I`m not convinced we`re doing any good there.

I`m also not convinced that the sky will fall if we withdraw.

I`m damm sure that al-queda will leave Iraq when we do and/or get their asses kicked out.

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RE: Bush wants invaders out of Iraq - 2/28/2008 10:12:02 PM

cyberdude611

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I don't know enough about the situation on the ground over there to acurately guage what would definetely happen if we withdrawl.

However I do know it will not be a Vietnam-like situation where we pull out and things settle down. The reason things settled down was because Nixon finalized a deal with China. And the Chinese suppressed the communists in Vietnam after we pulled out. So the domino theory was prevented, it was a chance for us to leave, and we did. Had we just left and not made that deal, it would have been probably very ugly. China would have probably supported further aggression and the domino theory would have went forward.

Today in Iraq....we have a serious problem. There is no country to make a deal with this time. China doesn't want it. Russia no longer has the military to play that game anymore. Europe doesn't want it. The UN doesn't want it. NATO doesn't want it. So we have nobody with any real power to turn this situation over to. If we leave, it will lead to a power vaccum if the Iraqi government cannot sustain themselves. And you could be looking at civil war and an Iranian incursion.

It's one of the disadvantages of a uni-polar world. We are the sole super-power so Iraq is our problem whether we like it or not.

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RE: Bush wants invaders out of Iraq - 2/28/2008 10:23:25 PM

Termyn8or

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"Because the Iraqi government wants/needs us there....not the Turks."

Dude that is not an Iraqi government. Those in power there are so under the good graces of the occupying forces. That would be us. Thus the confusion.

Let me ask you this ............. No, I'll start a theard. This is waaaaaaaaaaaay too much for this one.

T

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RE: Bush wants invaders out of Iraq - 2/28/2008 10:26:47 PM

masterfixer

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yadi yadi yadi

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RE: Bush wants invaders out of Iraq - 2/28/2008 10:30:12 PM

Owner59

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Pardon me.

It`s yada yada yada.

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RE: Bush wants invaders out of Iraq - 2/28/2008 10:36:06 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080228/ts_afp/usbushpoliticsturkeykurds

"The Turks need to move quickly, achieve their objective and then get out... as quickly as possible," he said.

Why doesn`t Bush take his own advice?

It`s good advice after all.

Yeah. When I read the title of the post, I thought that is what he meant.

Too good to be true.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: Bush wants invaders out of Iraq - 2/29/2008 4:01:55 AM

PlayfulOne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

I don't know enough about the situation on the ground over there to acurately guage what would definetely happen if we withdrawl.

However I do know it will not be a Vietnam-like situation where we pull out and things settle down. The reason things settled down was because Nixon finalized a deal with China. And the Chinese suppressed the communists in Vietnam after we pulled out. So the domino theory was prevented, it was a chance for us to leave, and we did. Had we just left and not made that deal, it would have been probably very ugly. China would have probably supported further aggression and the domino theory would have went forward.

Today in Iraq....we have a serious problem. There is no country to make a deal with this time. China doesn't want it. Russia no longer has the military to play that game anymore. Europe doesn't want it. The UN doesn't want it. NATO doesn't want it. So we have nobody with any real power to turn this situation over to. If we leave, it will lead to a power vaccum if the Iraqi government cannot sustain themselves. And you could be looking at civil war and an Iranian incursion.

It's one of the disadvantages of a uni-polar world. We are the sole super-power so Iraq is our problem whether we like it or not.

Did someone sleep during history?

The Domino effect theory of commuisim was averted in Vietnam because we made a deal with the China. You need to lay off whatever your smoking. Lets start with the fact theat the Domino theory was created by the US and was based on even less reality than the WMD in Iraq. (If one would actually study the history of Vietnam starting at the end of WWII, the entire fiasco from that point until the end of the Vietnam War was "OUR" fault, we didn't just sit by and let it happen either, we caused it)

Iraq is our problem because we made it such. We were the idiots who went charging in against the advice and wishes of the entire rest of the world. Now we moan that no one wants to help.

The Turks should have every right to attack the PKK, no matter where they are. Didn't we already set the standard and example for that? Hell, we invaded a place that didn't even have the terrorist we were after.

K

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RE: Bush wants invaders out of Iraq - 2/29/2008 4:05:22 AM

Muttling

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080228/ts_afp/usbushpoliticsturkeykurds

"The Turks need to move quickly, achieve their objective and then get out... as quickly as possible," he said.

Why doesn`t Bush take his own advice?

It`s good advice after all.

I am very torn with your comments. While I don't agree with the Iraq comparison, the comparison makes perfect sense with our issues and our operation in southern Pakistan.

I really wish I could say that you have made an ignorant comment, but the reality is that my president has made many ignorant decisions on foreign policy. (sigh)

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RE: Bush wants invaders out of Iraq - 2/29/2008 4:44:48 AM

pahunkboy