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RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/25/2008 8:24:10 PM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Like I said....you all will be sorry when he gets in and millions die because he hasn't a damn clue what he's going to do.

Spoken like a true smear-campaign manager. He's already united the country against Billary. Even the right wing talk hosts are supporting HER because they know McCain will destroy her in the election and they know Obama will destroy McCain with ease. First time I've ever heard a right-wing host praise a dem.

They are doing that for two reasons:
1. Obama is looking like the front-runner to get the nomination at this point. And the front runner is the one that gets the smear campaigns. Hillary no longer looks like the front runner, so the attacks on her have ceased.
2. They realize what a left-wing whackjob he is.

Just wait until the nomination is definite. The GOP isn't going to hold back punches. Obama's far-left history is going to be yanked out. Everything from his past to his hippie parents will be brought out by the GOP. And that tactic DOES work. Independents do not typically vote for radicals on either side. If the GOP can make Obama out to be a pinko-commie who wants to move us to socialism....the indepedents will vote for McCain. I gurantee it.

And the head-to-head polls for the general election this far out are absolutely meaningless. Hillary was 20 points ahead of Obama 3 months ago. Look how fast that changed. We have 10 months until the election. We also have Ralph Nader jumping in and Bloomberg could even jump in as well. So lets take those head-to-head polls with a grain of salt for now and not make stupid predictions about who's going to kill who in November. Many things could change public opinion in a heartbeat. A terrorist attack. The war could get better or worse. Osama could be killed. The economy could be better or worse. More assassinations. 10 months is a long time and the majority of the voting public do not make up their mind who they will vote for until October.

Gore was ahead of Bush by 11 points going into September.

(in reply to Smith117)

Post #: 21

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/25/2008 8:25:21 PM

KenDckey

Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080226/ap_on_el_pr/obama_photo_11

You notice that Clinton's people in Iowa sent out accuzations that he was a muslem and she didn't fire them. She just sat back and let them quit and take the full brunt of everything.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 22

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/25/2008 8:27:52 PM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

I'm sure you've done far more research on the subject than I have, so I can't debate this subject with you on equal footing.

However, as a prospective (from an admittedly less-than-fully-educated individual), if Hillary wins the Democratic nomination, I'm voting McCain pretty much for sure. If Obama wins it, I'm leaning towards him over McCain right now.

Oh, and for the record.. if Hillary and Huckabee get their respectives parties' nominations.. well, I'm dropping a course or two and going on the campaign trail for Nadder. :P (I think I probably like Huckabee even less than Hillary.)

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 23

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/25/2008 8:28:00 PM

Smith117

Posts: 1447
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Like I said....you all will be sorry when he gets in and millions die because he hasn't a damn clue what he's going to do.

Spoken like a true smear-campaign manager. He's already united the country against Billary. Even the right wing talk hosts are supporting HER because they know McCain will destroy her in the election and they know Obama will destroy McCain with ease. First time I've ever heard a right-wing host praise a dem.

They are doing that for two reasons:
1. Obama is looking like the front-runner to get the nomination at this point. And the front runner is the one that gets the smear campaigns. Hillary no longer looks like the front runner, so the attacks on her have ceased.
2. They realize what a left-wing whackjob he is.

Just wait until the nomination is definite. The GOP isn't going to hold back punches. Obama's far-left history is going to be yanked out. Everything from his past to his hippie parents will be brought out by the GOP. And that tactic DOES work. Independents do not typically vote for radicals on either side. If the GOP can make Obama out to be a pinko-commie who wants to move us to socialism....the indepedents will vote for McCain. I gurantee it.

And the head-to-head polls for the general election this far out are absolutely meaningless. Hillary was 20 points ahead of Obama 3 months ago. Look how fast that changed. We have 10 months until the election. We also have Ralph Nader jumping in and Bloomberg could even jump in as well. So lets take those head-to-head polls with a grain of salt for now and not make stupid predictions about who's going to kill who in November. Many things could change public opinion in a heartbeat. A terrorist attack. The war could get better or worse. Osama could be killed. The economy could be better or worse. More assassinations. 10 months is a long time and the majority of the voting public do not make up their mind who they will vote for until October.

Gore was ahead of Bush by 11 points going into September.

I still think it will be Obama. He's got the quality that can unite everyone. I don't see him losing at all. He's "the people's president."

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 24

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/25/2008 8:28:26 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Too late...Obama is already been made into a martyr because of his cult-following....

You can't look at the guy crosseyed without being publically based. He can do no wrong.

Like I said....you all will be sorry when he gets in and millions die because he hasn't a damn clue what he's going to do.

This quote from Hillary says it all....and it's the truth....
“Now I could stand up here and say, let’s get everybody together, let’s get unified the sky will open, the light will come down, celestial choirs will be singing,” she said, to a smattering of giggles. “And everyone will know we should do the right thing, and the world will be perfect.”
She added: “But I have no illusions about how hard this is going to be. You are not going to wave a magic wand and make the special interests disappear.”

This is why women don't date you....Not because you are "too much of a nice guy" but because you might be crazy.

_____________________________

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 25

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/25/2008 8:33:33 PM

domiguy

Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Like I said....you all will be sorry when he gets in and millions die because he hasn't a damn clue what he's going to do.

Spoken like a true smear-campaign manager. He's already united the country against Billary. Even the right wing talk hosts are supporting HER because they know McCain will destroy her in the election and they know Obama will destroy McCain with ease. First time I've ever heard a right-wing host praise a dem.

They are doing that for two reasons:
1. Obama is looking like the front-runner to get the nomination at this point. And the front runner is the one that gets the smear campaigns. Hillary no longer looks like the front runner, so the attacks on her have ceased.
2. They realize what a left-wing whackjob he is.

Just wait until the nomination is definite. The GOP isn't going to hold back punches. Obama's far-left history is going to be yanked out. Everything from his past to his hippie parents will be brought out by the GOP. And that tactic DOES work. Independents do not typically vote for radicals on either side. If the GOP can make Obama out to be a pinko-commie who wants to move us to socialism....the indepedents will vote for McCain. I gurantee it.

I think you are dead wrong. I'm not drinking the kool aid...I just realistically see things how they are. The independents are not going to vote for McCain...He just represents everything that people are finally getting fed up with.

You are wrong. It isn't at all surprising. In fact It gives me a stronger belief that Obama will be victorious based solely upon the strength of your stand. It is almost a never fail system.

_____________________________

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 26

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/25/2008 8:36:19 PM

CuriousLord

Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Too late...Obama is already been made into a martyr because of his cult-following....

You can't look at the guy crosseyed without being publically based. He can do no wrong.

Obama's gay. I saw him beat up, then rape a midget.

I like the guy, but hardly idolize. He'll likely end up with my vote, but I see no reason to get upset if someone doesn't like him. Besides. The second people start forcing others to like or vote for him is the second that I lose my own reasoning to.

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 27

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/25/2008 8:49:47 PM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

General ...

Although still an undecided voter, this is an easy one. This could have come from anywhere, and until the staffers are named, there is no proof of anything.

It certainly is a boon ... get a free shot at Senator Obama and blame it on a Democrat. Perhaps it was a 527 group.

By the way, this is certainly not typical of the Clintons. Had the Clintons done this, the story would have been that McCain staffers were behind it.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

Post #: 28

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/25/2008 9:50:12 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

I checked your link and then did some more digging. There is nothing that proves it is from the right, and the link I posted at least provides someone that will at least say where they received it. In politics you can never know but the Clintons have been using these kinds of tactics against Obama since he became a big threat to them.

I am waiting to see what Obama does, and I will be taking his measure when he goes up against McCain. This is one independent that will likely vote for him, if my choice is between him and McCain. I do not agree with his stance on all of the issues, but he appears to have a lot less double talk than the regular politicians. I am tired of business as usual politics, and if it takes Obama to shake things up, even if we suffer for four years, I believe this country is in need of a shake up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Can one of the Hillary supporters please stand up and explain why this kind of behavior is acceptable to you http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080225/cm_thenation/45290136

Especially when they are playing on a false rumor that some ignorant people still believe http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

This story first circulated via a right-wing email smear campaign, as my colleague Chris Hayes documented, but has since taken on a life of its own, spawning more and more fantastic conspiracies about Obama.

"via a right-wing email smear campaign, "

Nuff said....

(Matt)"Drudge says he received the photo from "Clinton staffers."

Anyone who thinks Drudge is impartial is a dummy or a right-winger.Either way he`s full of shit.

Orion,

There was a story that Fox News ran,that Mr Obama was schooled in a radical Muslim school,called a medrassa.The point was to scare the dummies and bigots in America(most of Fox`s audience)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Hm_W783Po

The origin of the story was a fake "news" story put out by the wacko right-wing
Insight (magazine) and repeated over and over by Fox/Rush/doushebag right-wingers,etc. {http://www.insightmag.com/ME2/Default.asp }

The same ass holes who put out this GOPoop,also said that Hillary was behind the story.Another ugly lie,but after so much GOPooping ,it`s hard to keep track of all the bull shiters.

And just like in this thread,there were people who were gullible enough to believe the story about Barak,and the story about Hillary smearing him.

I think that Insight,NewsMax,FoxNews considered that all, a victory.

I think the cowards behind this fake story ,also consider this a victory.

1. Besmirching Mr. Obama and getting away with it.
2. Blaming it on Hillary ,because there`s a target audience who are ready to and want to believe such things about Hillary.
The same with Mr Obama.

We saw this strategy(which is as old as history) work brilliantly, with the fake Madrassa Story.This story, has the same reek to it and the same crowd of gullible folks to believe it.

I doesn`t take a rocket scientist to figure out that this is staged and orchestrated.

I hope that folks aren`t taken in by this and would be a tad more sophisticated.

But I can only hope.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/25/2008 9:52:46 PM >

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 29

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/25/2008 10:47:28 PM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

I'm not sure if this is new, but the older I get, the more I realize how many people place what they want to believe, ahead of what has been shown to be true. Taken to the next level, they are actually able to convince themselves that what they want to believe, has actually been shown to be true.

In a week or so, Senator Clinton will more likely than not, be out of the race. People on the right that think it's shameful that Hillary would insinuate that Barak is a Muslim, will then start insinuating it themselves. The Obama supporters, since the game with Hillary has been won, will then "discover" the thought in their mind that the entire mess could have been a smear job by the other party.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 30

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/25/2008 11:11:35 PM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I think you are dead wrong. I'm not drinking the kool aid...I just realistically see things how they are. The independents are not going to vote for McCain...He just represents everything that people are finally getting fed up with.

You are wrong. It isn't at all surprising. In fact It gives me a stronger belief that Obama will be victorious based solely upon the strength of your stand. It is almost a never fail system.

Well then the voters will have to learn the hard way that the more things change the more they stay the same. If you think Obama is end the end going to change anything, you are dreaming. There is 50+ years of established foreign policy. That's why it really doesnt matter who wins in November. It's a puppet show.

The president does not have absolute power. He's not a dictator. The checks and balance system limits his ability to change course of the political machines that have been in motion for so long. And I believe it was Eisenhower who said that nothing can change the course of the military industrial complex. No matter how fed up the voters are. The voters really dont control anything. What if Obama gets in there, gets briefs by the CIA and the state department and the pentagon and delares suddenly...."We can't leave Iraq."

Remember Lyndon B Johnson. He promised and promised that he will never send any more combat forces to Vietnam. Well....read some history and you'll find out what happened to that promise. If Obama and the Dems decide to stay in Iraq....what are you going to do? Vote Republican? Like I said....the voters have no power in this political environment. It's a show. And you and everyone else is falling for it.

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 2/25/2008 11:31:29 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 31

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/25/2008 11:27:20 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I think you are dead wrong. I'm not drinking the kool aid...I just realistically see things how they are. The independents are not going to vote for McCain...He just represents everything that people are finally getting fed up with.

You are wrong. It isn't at all surprising. In fact It gives me a stronger belief that Obama will be victorious based solely upon the strength of your stand. It is almost a never fail system.

Well then the voters will have to learn the hard way that the more things change the more they stay the same. If you think Obama is end the end going to change anything, you are dreaming. There is 50+ years of established foreign policy. That's why it really doesnt matter who wins in November. It's a puppet show.

The president does not have absolute power. He's not a dictator. The checks and balance system limits his ability to change course of the political machines that have been in motion for so long. And I believe it was Eisenhower who said that nothing can change the course of the military industrial complex. No matter how fed up the voters are. The voters really dont control anything. What if Obama gets in there, gets briefs by the CIA and the state department and the pentagon and delares suddenly...."We can't leave Iraq."

Remember Lyndon B Johnson. He promised and promised that he will never send any more combat forces to Vietnam. Well....read some history and you'll find out what happened to that promise. If Obama and the Dems decide to stay in Iraq....what are you going to do? Vote Republican? Like I said....the voters have no power in this political environment. It's a show. And you and everyone else is falling for it.

"The president does not have absolute power. He's not a dictator.The checks and balance system limits his ability to change course of the political machines that have been in motion for so long."

Have you been on vacation?Ever heard of George Bush?

"And I believe it was Eisenhower who said that nothing can change the course of the military industrial complex."

Wrong.

He warned us against it.I guess he failed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bqr5DVx3dw&feature=related

Ike,on the military industrial complex:

" we must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes"

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 32

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/25/2008 11:33:42 PM

cyberdude611

Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I think you are dead wrong. I'm not drinking the kool aid...I just realistically see things how they are. The independents are not going to vote for McCain...He just represents everything that people are finally getting fed up with.

You are wrong. It isn't at all surprising. In fact It gives me a stronger belief that Obama will be victorious based solely upon the strength of your stand. It is almost a never fail system.

Well then the voters will have to learn the hard way that the more things change the more they stay the same. If you think Obama is end the end going to change anything, you are dreaming. There is 50+ years of established foreign policy. That's why it really doesnt matter who wins in November. It's a puppet show.

The president does not have absolute power. He's not a dictator. The checks and balance system limits his ability to change course of the political machines that have been in motion for so long. And I believe it was Eisenhower who said that nothing can change the course of the military industrial complex. No matter how fed up the voters are. The voters really dont control anything. What if Obama gets in there, gets briefs by the CIA and the state department and the pentagon and delares suddenly...."We can't leave Iraq."

Remember Lyndon B Johnson. He promised and promised that he will never send any more combat forces to Vietnam. Well....read some history and you'll find out what happened to that promise. If Obama and the Dems decide to stay in Iraq....what are you going to do? Vote Republican? Like I said....the voters have no power in this political environment. It's a show. And you and everyone else is falling for it.

"The president does not have absolute power. He's not a dictator.The checks and balance system limits his ability to change course of the political machines that have been in motion for so long."

Have you been on vacation?Ever heard of George Bush?

"And I believe it was Eisenhower who said that nothing can change the course of the military industrial complex."

Wrong.

He warned us against it.I guess he failed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bqr5DVx3dw&feature=related

Ike,on the military industrial complex:

" we must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes"

How was Bush a dictator? He hasn't done anything but go along with every idiot that told him what to do (ie: Wolfowitz)

And Eisenhower stated that there are so many complicated factors involved in the military industry that it cannot be reformed. You have an enormous flow of money going into that direction. It has the power to influence the congress, the states, and the entire federal government. We are talking about defense contracts, the defense industry, and the mentality of America that we have to have the most superior military in the world. Even beyond that you have gigantic corporations and contractors and trillions of dollars at stake. I fully believe any president that tries to go against this machine will probably find himself in the same situation as JFK....dead. No one in America has the power necessary to shut this machine off.

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 33

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/26/2008 1:04:25 AM

Zensee

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

As long as our systems of government, elections and courts are based in the adversarial model, this kind of crap will just amplify with each cycle.

The sort of bloodshed we see in the struggle for power within political parties is often more savage than the partisan wranglings that pass for government, between bouts.

These caged-fights filter for the worst sort of personality to trust with power. That filter is getting finer and finer...

Z.

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 34

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/26/2008 5:10:02 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

By the way, this is certainly not typical of the Clintons. Had the Clintons done this, the story would have been that McCain staffers were behind it.

Think they really could be that devious?

On a serious note, I agree with a couple of skeptics here; so far, no proof as to where this originates from. It would really benefit quite a lot of people to kill two birds with one stone. They get Obama and Clinton by making her the scapegoat. Brilliant.

What terrifies me is the possibility that such an obvious scare tactic might work. How many voters will reconsider voting for Obama because his father is Kenyan, and because he wore Kenyan garb last year?

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 2/26/2008 5:33:35 AM >

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Post #: 35

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/26/2008 5:15:18 AM

mhawk

Posts: 509
Joined: 11/5/2007
From: Washington
Status: offline

well here's the thing with Ohio. i was there when Bush Jr got in the first time.Do you know what it's like having Black Panthers come to your front door becasue neighborhoods were closed off from voting purposefully? yeah it still happens.

ohio wants at least them and maybe even now a Democratic candidate they can rely on as do most people.

what i am wondering is any election has it's onw bs and lies from all sides,i'm just saying here that if it was 2 guys the same shit would be happening.it's all part of the game we call politics.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 36

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/26/2008 5:29:07 AM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Think they really could be that devious?

Are you kidding?

Nothing would shock me at this point. I wouldn't be the least bit surpised is it was actually Senator Obama's people that released this picture. They had to know that it's out there, and that it would come to light eventually. What better time to get it out than right now, just as the other candidate goes on the offensive. It makes all her more meaningful attacks look mean spirited. Besides, there is still ample time to blame it on Republicans.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 2/26/2008 5:30:32 AM >

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 37

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/26/2008 5:40:21 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

In my immense naivety I hadn't even considered the possibility that Obama may be behind this. After all, Clinton is the last person who'll benefit from this story.

_____________________________

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 38

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/26/2008 6:04:34 AM

caitlyn

Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

I can go another direction with this (perhaps I'm more evil) ...

Senator Obama has made a lot of political hay out of being the guy that didn't take money from a bunch of lobbyists. This is excellent strategy from a candidate that wasn't really offered any.

Now, these lobby groups now have to change direction. They made a huge deposit with the Democratic party, and now have to make sure that investment pays off. They need to show their board of directors, executive committee, group of elders, head tree-huggers ... whatever ... that their girl wasn't the person they thought she was.

These lobby groups will soon be offering Senator Obama money, and he will take it.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 39

RE: Can a Hillary supporter offer a good excuse why - 2/26/2008 6:25:53 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

I understand your argument about lobbyists but, thickly enough, don't see how it explains the photo spinning. What do you think?

And yes. You're evil

.

_____________________________

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 40

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