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Bitch... - 2/25/2008 4:18:34 AM

StormsSlave

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If I had to characterize how people see me at work, I would say that they respect me, most of them, more than they like me. I like that, so I leave it that way. It happens to be that when something is not to the liking of the entire shift, few people will speak up about it. I have developed an outstanding rapport with my supervisor and his assistant. I feel comfortable going to them and telling them our collective gripe as my own. Occasionally, some things change.

I even got suspended for speaking out at an informal meeting for asking two pointed questions, making a declarative statement, then stomping out. I got suspended, but, a week later, they announced they were doing something about the issue at hand. I even got paid for one of the days because of my bitching about human resources not being on the ball. So basically, I had an unpaid, excused day off, a paid excused day off, and hung out at home and played video games, played how may I please you, and slept a lot. I'll tell all the details, if you really want, (except the how may I please you games) but it's not all that interesting.

Now, I'm not saying that everyone is good at bitching, but sometimes, bitching is good.

So, how do you feel about getting shit done with bitching? How do you approach it? Do you subscribe to the attract more flies with honey theory?

Edited: grammar

< Message edited by StormsSlave -- 2/25/2008 4:21:33 AM >

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RE: Bitch... - 2/25/2008 4:54:53 AM

CuriousLord

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There's no question that one can get a lot done with whining about it. Still, it's sort of like crying all the time. It can be effective, particularly if you're good at it, but it's not always respect that people have but more of a desire to avoid such contact with a whiney person.

An individual also uses up some of his credibility and a form of social currency every time he does such a thing.

(in reply to StormsSlave)

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RE: Bitch... - 2/25/2008 6:03:45 AM

LadyEllen

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There's a big difference between bitching about and whining about CL. The latter is ineffective and annoying and deployed by those with little perceived opportunity to change anything - the former can be effective because those deploying it have an opportunity to influence things.

E

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RE: Bitch... - 2/25/2008 6:09:06 AM

Owner59

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The squeeky wheel gets the grease...

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RE: Bitch... - 2/25/2008 6:26:25 AM

CuriousLord

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Perhaps it's a difference between dialects? Here, I've always heard "bitching" to mean "whining in a pathetic or/and emotional manner" (typically when the bitcher is aggressive, boarder-line violent, etc.).

("Whining", on the other hand, typically implies a more polite, subdued, or less emotional form.)

(in reply to LadyEllen)

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RE: Bitch... - 2/25/2008 6:32:27 AM

MissMorrigan

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Yes, there's a huge distinction between having the occasional 'whine' and gaining a reputation for bitching which, in my opinion, is gaining influence by being wholly unpleasant. The OP suggests the latter given that they flounced out of a meeting, the outcome of which meant suspension. That kind of behaviour shows lack of respect, control and attention seeking, bullying to gain one's way instead of putting forth views in a constructive manner. Being 'wary' of one's work colleague does not equate to respecting them, often a misconstrued viewpoint.

Edited to add: The OP states, "I feel comfortable going to them and telling them our collective gripe as my own. " Whether this is poorly worded, only they can say for certain, but it smacks of unprofessionalism as in making it 'personal aim' as opposed to a professional objective.

Unfortunately, there are more people that fail to understand assertion does not mean aggression and more people need to learn how to constructively discuss matters without the need to bully their points across.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
Perhaps it's a difference between dialects? Here, I've always heard "bitching" to mean "whining in a pathetic or/and emotional manner" (typically when the bitcher is aggressive, boarder-line violent, etc.).

("Whining", on the other hand, typically implies a more polite, subdued, or less emotional form.)

< Message edited by MissMorrigan -- 2/25/2008 6:41:30 AM >

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RE: Bitch... - 2/25/2008 6:36:53 AM

LadyEllen

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Unfortunately MsM, at board level, "putting forth one's views in a constructive manner" is not the way to get things done. One only gets a response by appealing to base motivations - greed, fear, sex.

Since sex isnt on the agenda, one is left with the other two, and if getting things done requires instilling the fear of the uberbitch in the others, then thats how it'll be done.

Yes, the boardroom; where all the bullies from school end up. And then there's me - but I'm learning the rules fast.

E

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RE: Bitch... - 2/25/2008 6:47:21 AM

MissMorrigan

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Lady Ellen, I'm not sure to what field you are referring that's a typical trait of boardroom meetings, or if you are applying that to board room level generally. I have been employed at executive level and attended many boardroom meetings (Finance), I have never witnessed the kind of behaviour you suggest.

One can garner respect without resorting to bitchiness. I have a healthy respect for former employers, albeit one who brought herself down to the level of her workforce insofar as socialising and gossiping, etc... The ones I have always been respectful of are those who maintain a good level of self control, who aren't caught napping on the job (figuratively speaking) and maintain a professional 'distance'.

Wasn't this a topic discussed recently insofar as how 'bitches' are perceived or what constitutes a bitch?

< Message edited by MissMorrigan -- 2/25/2008 6:48:15 AM >

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RE: Bitch... - 2/25/2008 6:54:23 AM

LadyEllen

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You have a better experience than me then MsM - my lot, its all about backstabbing, plotting, and undermining. Especially the latter if one happens to wear a bra. I tried being nice and constructive, honestly I did - when I found that didnt get me anywhere, I played by the rules too, which seem to consist of presenting fait accomplis, covering one's arse and avoiding any flak. I get the impression that if I played golf, I might get some respect, but otherwise its claws out to get any.

E

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RE: Bitch... - 2/25/2008 7:01:02 AM

MissMorrigan

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I have heard others mirror your experiences, Lady Ellen, I can only speak from my own. I don't doubt there is that element and one can't know what goes on in private between board members. It is always a good idea to cover one's arse, so to speak and avoid any kind of professional repercussions, but that comes with being up on one's game.

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A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

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RE: Bitch... - 2/25/2008 7:01:51 AM

LaTigresse

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I think a productive way to "bitch" is to calmly bring up an issue and if it is a problem you much also present a solution.

Losing ones temper or behaving in an emotional way in a business setting only serves to belittle your own reputation and value as an employee.

I am not saying that the owner of the company I work for, and I, have not had a few heated debates. Usually because he has a habit of taking every word, that does not agree with him, personally. He especially dislikes, the "why?" type questions. Most especially when they are presented in a calm manner with an explanation as to why the "why" is being asked......that clarification is being sought. And even moreso, because he usually does not have an answer and has to conceed that the whole thing didn't make much sense to begin with. That is when he goes stomping off up to his office and slams the door and pouts.

Then later decided that perhaps I was right....

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RE: Bitch... - 2/25/2008 8:09:17 AM

juliaoceania

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I do not think of stating an issue, asking for resolution, as "bitching". Some people do not appreciate the straight forward approach, and I am a straight forward person, but that is just who I am and while some people may think me a bitch for it that is only because they were probably not taught to be straight about what they wanted and needed.

I have noticed something as a person who is very forward with my ideas and opinions, there is some gender discrimination when it comes to being this way. Men are seen as "in charge leaders" when they are upfront and direct, women are called "bitches". I do not like being called a bitch, I am not a bitch.

The funny thing is, at my work I am seen as caring, considerate, kind, and a team player. My boss is nice to me (she isn't nice to everyone) and she often asks for my opinion and gives me more difficult tasks because I handle them well. At my present job being direct has led to a couple of confrontations with people who negatively impacted me in my position, but if they are not impacting my work performance I will bend over backwards to help others.

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RE: Bitch... - 2/25/2008 1:40:16 PM

Termyn8or

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Originally bitch meant female dog, and when new meanings are adopted for a word there is bound to be some confusion. I would say today that whining and bitching are two different things.

It is all in how you bitch. Raising your voice doesn't help unless you are bitching ayt someone who is hard of hearing. Getting amotional about things can cross the line into whining. Having a temper flareup when bitching can be seen as anger. None of this is good.

My Mother is a self annointed Bitch. But she is a good Bitch, the good Bitch of the West I guess (she absolutely refuses to live east of the river). I have seen her bitch out a contractor, actually a friend of mine, for dragging his feet on a job he was doing for her. I have never seen anyone do it like that. She practically cut the guy's legs off, without raising her voice.

I can bitch too, she taught me pretty well. She was head of the purchasing department at one of the few companies left that still produce anything in this country. She said "This is a perfect job for a Woman, I spend money and bitch about it". Her words, not mine.

But in her world bitching was different than most people think. It was not "Well because you ran us the parts with the wrong material I got a bitching customer and we are probably looking at layoffs, are you happy now ?". Instead it was more like "These parts must comply to ANSI-2951 and if you can't supply them, we will find someone who can". What do you think would be more effective ?

In the US English language many words have ambiguous meanings, or at least dual meanings. This causes misunderstandings and arguments, that are basically about nothing. We are a mixed up lot, to say the least.

Have fun with it if you can.

Signed;

First Born Son of a Bitch

(in reply to juliaoceania)

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RE: Bitch... - 2/25/2008 3:07:55 PM

SubbieOnWheels

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My approach to handling a difficulty at work was as follows:

1 - Gather all the information. Perhaps I can discern the reasons behind actions (or lack thereof).
2 - Go to the Powers That Be and present the information I have gathered.
3 - Present a possible solution.Sometimes I would say, "Is there some reason why such-and-such can't be done?"

Usually I either got action or a well-reasoned response outlining why my suggestions could not apply. Many times we would work together for a solution.

Thus I managed to tread the fine line between being "one of the crew" and being "junior management." The perils of being an administrative assistant.

BTW - I would listen to bitching - whining is simply annoying.

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RE: Bitch... - 2/26/2008 5:56:21 PM

HerLord

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Damn... I sure wish I lived in this, "be nice and get ahead" world you guys describe, where I work, if you simply tell your boss that because they changed the schedule, and the days off, I will no longer be able to make prearranged appointments, and thusly must call off for these said appointments. To wit, their reply, has been find another job. Or some similarly dismissive statement. i wish I lived in the real world where bosses care about employees, and companies don't care about thier bottom line, and every one just caters to my likes and dislikes. What a nice place you all live. Wouldn't that be lovely.

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RE: Bitch... - 2/26/2008 6:45:29 PM

NaiveTempest

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HerLord

Damn... I sure wish I lived in this, "be nice and get ahead" world you guys describe, where I work, if you simply tell your boss that because they changed the schedule, and the days off, I will no longer be able to make prearranged appointments, and thusly must call off for these said appointments. To wit, their reply, has been find another job. Or some similarly dismissive statement. i wish I lived in the real world where bosses care about employees, and companies don't care about thier bottom line, and every one just caters to my likes and dislikes. What a nice place you all live. Wouldn't that be lovely.

Ain't that the truth. I have never been anywhere were I didn't have to deal with at least one asshole supervisor/boss/manager. I try to stick to being nice and calm about things, but often get the "pat on the head, now be gone" response. Often I have to be more forceful to get some type of result.

And the backstabbing... there are times when I have an idea, and I have to figure out ways to discuss it with others or higher ups without them trying to take credit for it. "Dog eat dog" and all that.....

What's worse is when one of your co-workers get a management type promotion and begins to act like an ass. There is establishing/maintaining professional distance and there is being a bitch or dick. I better get off the box now before I drone on....

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RE: Bitch... - 2/26/2008 6:50:18 PM

Sinergy

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I had a boss once who griped and complained until I looked at him and said "It would be a lot easier to do our job if we didnt have to look at your butt-ugly face and listen to your fucking crap all night." He laughed and walked off to give the other lashers a bunch of caustic twaddle.

UnionMembergy

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RE: Bitch... - 2/26/2008 7:05:34 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HerLord

Damn... I sure wish I lived in this, "be nice and get ahead" world you guys describe, where I work, if you simply tell your boss that because they changed the schedule, and the days off, I will no longer be able to make prearranged appointments, and thusly must call off for these said appointments. To wit, their reply, has been find another job. Or some similarly dismissive statement. i wish I lived in the real world where bosses care about employees, and companies don't care about thier bottom line, and every one just caters to my likes and dislikes. What a nice place you all live. Wouldn't that be lovely.

This is why I prefer to be self-employed. Eliminates all the bother of dealing with bosses less intelligent and less grounded than I.

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RE: Bitch... - 2/26/2008 8:12:30 PM

chellekitty

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quote:

So, how do you feel about getting shit done with bitching? How do you approach it? Do you subscribe to the attract more flies with honey theory?

well, in my experience when you approach any situation in an emotional, irrational, illogical manner you don't get much accomplished and what is done is done out of spite to shut you up...so i prefer the calm, rational, and logical manner - not that i have it down 100% of the time...

so i guess my question back is, are you getting accomplished, what you want accomplished? and if not, do you think, perhaps, that you should change something? or are you going to keep doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results? because where i come from, we call that insanity....

chelle

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Post #: 19

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