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does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 5:22:12 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		There was a report on the local news here last week, regarding attacks on ambulance crews and fire crews.

In the last year in the Midlands of the UK (Birmingham and a radius of about 75 miles around), there were 113 attacks on ambulance crews by those to whom they had gone to help and their friends and bystanders. In the same period in the area there were 158 attacks on fire crews by bystanders. These are the reported figures, so we could be certain that there are more attacks, some of which are not reported. In addition there is a huge unreported problem of interference with and vandalism to emergency crew equipment when they are out on call.

Attacks range from assault to attempted murder. Means range from fists through knives to catapults and firework rockets - there was even a report of shots fired in one incident involving fire crews. And this is only one part of the UK - it would be reasonable to assume that similar goes on all over.

And this on top of the daily barrage of abuse suffered by emergency crews, and the daily occurrence of assaults on hospital nurses and doctors here, all of which combine to result in huge stress burdens in what are already stressful jobs, and a proportion of staff being away from work on sick leave for stress or injury related absence, putting extra pressure on emergency and hospital services.

Much of this is fuelled by booze and other substances. Generally, it is the same usual suspects; people who feel rejected by society and perhaps feel that striking out against fire crews, hospital staff and ambulance crews is an attack on society. The police experience similar of course, but thats part of their job and they have the authority and the means to take direct action to counter it. Generally, unless it is the police who are being attacked, the perpetrators get little penalty, even if caught.

Does this happen in the US? In Canada? In Australia or New Zealand? Anywhere else?

E

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 5:24:24 AM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		Although I don't know the figures, it does happen here.

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 5:32:59 AM   
christine1


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Status: offline 		i was just reading your response on another thread about this and i was going to ask you if it happened a lot there.  i've heard a few stories here and there about it going on in the states, but it doesn't seem to be an overwhelming problem, at least not that i've heard.

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 5:36:08 AM   
DiurnalVampire


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From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		When I lived in NY, it was something we heard about every now and again. I had EMT friends who refused to go into certain areas without an armed police guard or at least an armed ride along. Between the threates, the actual violence and the attempted robberies of the ambulances when they were actualy making their assistance, it was aweful. I had even heard from my friend that there were certain people who gave themselves minor injuries just to lure an ambulance to the scene in hopes of having a cohort break in and steak the drugs in the back while he was being attended to.

DV


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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 5:37:28 AM   
cyberdude611


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Status: offline 		Well, didn't the movie "A Clockwork Orange" take place in England? It's just a bit of the old ultra-violence!

What do you guys put in the water over there? I was reading something the other day about "happy slapping" where the new craze in the UK among teen gangs is to jump out and attack random, innocent people on the street, record the attack on their cell phones, and then post the video on the internet.

Strange.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/feb/21/law.ukcrime?gusrc=rss&feed=uknews

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 5:37:29 AM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		It does happen in The Netherlands as well.

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 5:39:50 AM   
Justme696


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Status: offline 		I think it is already over in the Netherlands. Some kids were punished very hard for it.
( I saw some other  movies  on websites...where they pull skirts up or undies down from ladies.....they should be shot)


< Message edited by Justme696 -- 2/24/2008 5:40:17 AM >

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 5:41:01 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		Thats it - I can understand (but not condone of course) attacks on the ambulance itself to get drugs, and then attacks on the crew if they should try to prevent the theft. What I dont understand is why someone who requires treatment then thinks its OK to attack the crew during the treatment and then attack the hospital staff too.

And attacking fire crews I just dont get - what are they after? water? foam?

Its all about anger and expressing rage against society I think - which has the same origin for why people might need to rob drugs from ambulances.

E

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 5:44:45 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Oh yes, so called "happy slapping" - disgusting unprovoked attacks on innocent people (often mentally ill, blind, disabled people) for entertainment.

There was a handful sent away for this a while back, after they killed the helpless object of their "fun".

And just in the last month, the female who had filmed it for publication got sent away too - it was a landmark judgement for this sort of thing "aiding and abetting murder" or some such; she didnt do any of the attack, but she was judged to be party to it.

E

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 6:13:48 AM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		This has been going on in England since the authorities set up public forces, which is why the police force created a uniform that looked like civilian dress (in the 1800s), and it's part of the reason why we have never had a large standing army - unlike many countries in the world - we've always resented the authorities encroaching on our space. Many inner cities in England were no go areas for the police well into the 20th century.

We have problems with anti-social behaviour, of course, but when push comes to shove, we have a per capita murder rate that is one eighth of that of Scotland and Italy, one quarter of that of Germany and France and far, far less than that of the United States, which suggests that while, yes, we do have an element who have little respect for the law, the vast majority of Englishmen and women have considerable respect for one another: more so than many industrialised nations (using murder as a measure).

For those who aren't English, what you see here is an English trait: it doesn't matter how good we've got it, some of us think we're doomed. Throw in the post-imperial malaise for good measure and the refusal to accept that not all Englishmen are upstanding gentlemen, and disorder will always be sensationalised in this country.

I'd be interested in seeing a breakdown of what constitutes attacks, and how many of these attacks were no more than kids lobbing stones.

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 6:16:19 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		The sad thing about all of this attacking fire crews, the time will come where the fire alarm is raised and then a question will be asked where that alarm was raised about. If that place was notorious for fire crews being attacked, I can see the fire authority saying, no, we will not go there, basically let it burn.

So, what is the answer, every fire call or ambulance call to be accompanied with the police? We all know the police have not the manpower nor the resources to so that. A better way in the case of a fire crew would be to give the assailants a good drubbing with the water hose. People who are cold and wet tend to lose interest.

Other than that what is the answer, as I can see without  anything being done to stop this menace, things will as always escalate out of control.


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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 6:35:55 AM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
I'd be interested in seeing a breakdown of what constitutes attacks, and how many of these attacks were no more than kids lobbing stones.


Of course, lobbing stones at the emergency services may be perfectly acceptable to you. The law tends to say otherwise - and in relation to the subject matter in hand, common decency tends to suggest that attacking those helping and protecting us is not acceptable.

This isnt high jinx from adolescents NG, its serious, premeditated violence from a sizeable minority of people aged 8-40 who are so disaffected, so rejected from the world the majority live in, that their rage is manifested in serious attacks with real consequences for any of us.

Like the two kids here who dropped a paving slab off a bridge into the cab of a train driver? Or the three in Northants who dropped a paving slab into the cab of a truck driver? Is that just a bit of adolescent fun? And "happy slapping" - just high jinx?

Unless we are prepared to recognise that we have this problem - 10-20% of the population who have no interest in society and little to lose - we will not sort out the socio-economic conditions and system which lead to their disaffection and the deadly intentions they have. Until we produce a situation where there are no grounds for their rage, we will not sort out this problem or indeed the penal system, or indeed our own sense that the current system isnt making us happy either.

But then, it does tend to suit both conventional left and right wing politics that such a situation of exclusion and deprivation is perpetuated.

E

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 6:45:39 AM   
MissMorrigan


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Status: offline 		I think the problem with referring to such antisocial acts, even if they are attributed to children, as 'high jinks' is that it self-perpetuates. The average scally will continue acting antisocially all the while someone is patting them on the head and saying, "He's a right little scally" as they chuckle and say, "Kids today eh?" As I see it, there is a prevalence for people to be emotionally 'detached' and that comes mainly, in my opinion, from isolation due to advancements in technology, ie computers, computer consoles, lack of constant parental input wherein both parents are working longer hours (or not at all and have developed the attitude 'let society raise my brats') and the kids are left, more or less, to their own devices so devise their own behavioural structures. While it may seem like high jinks, the kids aren't intouch with their emotions and have no idea of the consequences of their actions b/c they aren't actually faced with it - it's a detached act and why I advocate that all kids/people that commit such crimes should be made to come face to face with the consequences of their actions.

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 6:49:17 AM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		i thought it was gang gun fire.   gosh - some places have daylight gunfire.

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 6:55:12 AM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		Indeed, it is the - intentional? - failure of those that rule.

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 7:14:24 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Indeed, it is the - intentional? - failure of those that rule.


If it is intentional failure, where are we heading ?


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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 7:18:23 AM   
CuriousLord


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Status: offline 		I've never heard of such things here in the US (or from other parts of the world) before.

It does make sense, in a way.  When emergency crews are called, people may be delerious, paniced, etc.

You know, when an emergency vechile comes by, everyone on both sides of the road- even in heavy traffic- seem to clear to the sides to let it by.  Though my view of humanity as a whole is often rather cynical, I continually find it to be a beautiful act for everyone to so readily make the effort and give up the time when there's trouble to be dealt with.  I mean, sure, many of them might not actually care and be doing it because the law is compelling them, but I'd like to think that's not universally the case.

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 9:15:38 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

I've never heard of such things here in the US (or from other parts of the world) before.



Fire crews were routinely attacked during th L.A. riots, in most of the cities nationwide that this happened.

Happy slapping is a problem in various parts of the US.

Sinergy


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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 9:18:42 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Of course, lobbing stones at the emergency services may be perfectly acceptable to you.



Of course.

Last night I lured 3 fire engines down a back alley by setting a dummy on fire and claiming it was a woman. Once lured, I proceeded to smash the windows with rocks before running off with the water hose.

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RE: does this happen elsewhere in the world? - 2/24/2008 9:20:38 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Of course, lobbing stones at the emergency services may be perfectly acceptable to you.



Of course.

Last night I lured 3 fire engines down a back alley by setting a dummy on fire and claiming it was a woman. Once lured, I proceeded to smash the windows with rocks before running off with the water hose.


I put the video up on YouTube this morning.

Sinergy


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