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Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 6:22:46 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-22-temkinfeb22,1,4054176,print.story

I find this troubling.What happens when these kids hit the real world and mommy and daddy can't help them. Doesn't genuine self esteem come from accomplishment? What about the kid who busts his ass to make the team? Now he won't have to.

Jeff
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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 6:38:45 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I remember when my brother was cut from his Little League team, yes imagine, in the year 70's they actually did that to children.  He was upset for one day, and then he got busy with other things and forgot all about it.  He didn't play baseball again, but he only tried out in the first place becuase a neighbor was coaching and wanted him to try it.  I tried out in junior high for the cheering squad.  I made it through some eliminations but not to the final cut.  I survived.

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“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 6:42:53 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		IL requires PE 4 years in high school, not many states do.  being how sedimentary cattle are, there is an upside.

-sportmanship  can help a person grow.

i had a great childhood. we would pick berries in the praire and eat them, i  BUILT the best tree house on the block.

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 6:45:07 AM   
sub4hire


Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Parents need to step up and do their jobs as parents.  Until that happens again there are always going to be magnified issues with children.
If you teach your children self esteem, etc they won't take it so hard.  To strive to succeed and if you don't make it try harder next time. 


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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 6:46:53 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I have no answer that is even close to PC.....

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 6:47:28 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		I live on a private dirt road, off of another dirt road in a safe rural area. Every single school day the moms line up in their cars at the end of my road to pick their kids up from the bus stop. It seems they are too fragile to walk to their house even in warm sunny weather. I see it everywhere that I drive during school times and I am at a loss. On other roads kids are dropped at their driveway and there is still a car waiting for them. These are not just kindergardeners but kids up to high school. They don't even freakin car pool on the road!! It is a line of individual cars to pick up their individual kids. Blows my mind. These kids are being wrapped up in so much cotton that I don't think they can breathe without help and yes Jeff it makes me seriously wonder how they manage once out in the world. For me the emphasis on building that bs self esteem began in 1973 when I was 8.There was a class we all had to take called 'Me, Myself & I'. Honest. It was all about how each of us were special no matter what, that even when failing we were still winning because we were still very special children. (I have to say here that I actually failed that class, sorta lol and sorta not heh).

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 6:49:06 AM   
lauren0221


Posts: 681
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline 		Sooner or later, life is going to kick you in the teeth. As far as I know, nobody gets through life without at least a few bumps. I would imagine that children who learn to handle not getting everything they want would tend to have an easier time of it. I have some friends who won't their teenage girl date. All they are doing is maybe delaying the mistakes she will make, not preventing them. 

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 6:53:43 AM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I have no answer that is even close to PC.....


I am shocked!

Jeff

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 6:55:28 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I have no answer that is even close to PC.....


I am shocked!

Jeff


Give me time..........and coffee please.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Jeffff)
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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 7:05:03 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Heck I walked to school.  high school was 2miles- i walked simply cos the kids on the bus harrassed me. the other high school i went to was 6 miles- a few times i walked- road my bicycle. grade school was 5 blocks- i walked. jr high abit over a mile- walked. in kindergarten- it was hmm a few blocks- mom walked me. then in 1st grade i walked by myself. i recall begging her to pick me up if it rains.  the class bully told me he would throw me in the ditch.  [you know before curbs and underground drainage went in] to a 5 yr old the ditch w water looks BIG.

was i allowed to drive at 16? nope. 17. at 14 i got a work permit and worked. i stripped wax off of floors and bathed matted dogs. cleaned toilets.

a handful of times i was in teh city- well after a certain hour the suburban bus stops ruinng. poof- a 6 mile walk. surreal- i recall it like it was yesderay. zayre 24 sale w the flashing light. back then 24 hours was rare. then seeing central ave was good- ridgeland even better, then on 111st mom worked 3rd shift at duncun donuts. [she would get in trouble for dipping the donuts generously, lol] seeing her was nice.   the harlem.  man when i seen harlem i knew i was home.

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 7:05:59 AM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		FR:  Does anyone remember that great Kurt Vonnegut story where the world is "dumbed down" so everyone feels good about themselves and no one is "handicapped" (the term of art c. 1965 when the story was written.)   The newscaster has a horrible cleft palate and a stutter, the ballerina is about 300 lbs with a club foot....but everyone tries their hardest, so its ok.   A great little morality play.

Personally, getting cut from Freshman football was one of the greatest things that happened to me.  I met my "bad girl" high school girlfriend that week, and instead of going to practice after school, we snuck off into "the woods" and I practiced smoking dope and getting world-class blow jobs *GRIN*.

E.

(Edited to add:  PaHunkBoy:  111th and Harlem?  I hate to say it bro, but if you made that walk today your biggest risk would be dodging the Latin Kings.  Where is that?  Worth?  Stickney?  It is a LOT of Mexican gang-banger territory now.)

< Message edited by Emperor1956 -- 2/22/2008 7:10:06 AM >

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 7:15:47 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		I think it is so stupid.   Kids are allowed to run the streets at all hours and be out all night but we have to let them play sports.  Then it has been my observation that many, way to many, grow up thinking that the world owes them a living at the standard that they desire and wait on the government or some social organization to give it to them instead of going out and earinng it

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 7:31:11 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

FR:  Does anyone remember that great Kurt Vonnegut story where the world is "dumbed down" so everyone feels good about themselves and no one is "handicapped" (the term of art c. 1965 when the story was written.)   The newscaster has a horrible cleft palate and a stutter, the ballerina is about 300 lbs with a club foot....but everyone tries their hardest, so its ok.   A great little morality play.

Personally, getting cut from Freshman football was one of the greatest things that happened to me.  I met my "bad girl" high school girlfriend that week, and instead of going to practice after school, we snuck off into "the woods" and I practiced smoking dope and getting world-class blow jobs *GRIN*.

E.

(Edited to add:  PaHunkBoy:  111th and Harlem?  I hate to say it bro, but if you made that walk today your biggest risk would be dodging the Latin Kings.  Where is that?  Worth?  Stickney?  It is a LOT of Mexican gang-banger territory now.)


I live not TOO far from there, I am not skeerd..:)

Jeff

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 7:32:00 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-22-temkinfeb22,1,4054176,print.story

I find this troubling.What happens when these kids hit the real world and mommy and daddy can't help them. Doesn't genuine self esteem come from accomplishment? What about the kid who busts his ass to make the team? Now he won't have to.

Jeff


As long as it is just the freshman class, I have no real problem with it.  Team sports are learned activities--the kids have to start somewhere. 


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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 7:34:06 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		This is more about self esteem for the parents of the kids who get cut. The generation of entitlement believes their children are entitled too.

Meanwhile the kids have to deal with the realities of the sport. The kids who should have been cut is out on a field, in over their head. Maybe the flagrant mockery can be held at bay when coaches are within hearing range, but outside their supervision there will be plenty of opportunities for mockery as result of the resentment; resentment regarding playing time, equipment, and even coaching time. How many times at practice must a ball hit a kid who shouldn't be on the team in the face? How many 'hits' on the practice field must a kid endure who doesn't belong out there? Why would a parent put their kid through this? For their personal self esteem - not their kids.

When everyone gets a trophy the kids know its worthless. Making a team when you know your talent doesn't deserve it doesn't create any self esteem. You can't legislate self esteem or make it a course curriculum. Our schools are generating a generation where homogenized mediocrity is acceptable. No failure, but also no success. Fit only for a similar mediocre society with the expectation of not being allowed to fail there either. And then the reality of the job market is presented. SURPRISE! Well at least in the public sector - for now.

A better lesson to be taught would be how to deal with failure, learn from it, and grow from it. When allowed to fail you'll know and appreciate success. Failure isn't bad. Ironic, in light of this decision, walking away proud of your best attempt that happened to result in failure may result in some temporary tears, but is a much better source of self esteem.

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 7:37:47 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I never encouraged my son to go out for sports. When he expressed the desire to play I signed him up. I think that sports are stupid. I played basketball myself in high school, was a cheerleader in junior high school, and sang competitively in choir competitions... I did not learn anything from it. It did not prepare me for anything.

My son is very large, and the football coach wanted him to play so badly he was drooling. I got phone calls from this coach to get my kid to join the team. My son had no interest. Frankly, I did not see any value in having my son injured from being used as a shield. I did not see any value in him getting special treatment because he was born with the genetic propensity  toward being so large. I did not see any sort of effort he had ever put toward "making the team"... he could care less about football.

I see this story as being an example of how we put too much importance on sports... I wished people cared as much whether or not their kid made honor roll.


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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 7:48:10 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I never encouraged my son to go out for sports. When he expressed the desire to play I signed him up. I think that sports are stupid. I played basketball myself in high school, was a cheerleader in junior high school, and sang competitively in choir competitions...


Ok that brings up an interesting point. If it is good for kids who can't play to make the team? isn't it good for kids who can't sing the make the choir? Or can't play to make the band? Or can't speak well to make the debate team?

Jeff

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 7:55:02 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

I wished people cared as much whether or not their kid made honor roll.


I probably have the complete opposite view.  I wish more parents encouraged their children to be well-rounded.  Not all kids excel academically.  Although the child who can't make the honor roll may excel at physical sports, art or music.  I feel they should all be an important consideration, depending on the individual.

As a parent, I tried to nuture those things my sons found interesting.  I never forced them to join anything.  They played soccer, baseball, football (one kid, one season only), and basketball.  I think they did these more becuase their friends played and they had fun with it (especially practice).  They also both played an instrument in band and took music lessons. 

It seems like some parents do live through their children and it's wrong.  I hate seeing the competitive nature among some parents in regard to their children.


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 8:04:21 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

Ok that brings up an interesting point. If it is good for kids who can't play to make the team? isn't it good for kids who can't sing the make the choir? Or can't play to make the band? Or can't speak well to make the debate team?


Personally, I hate the word "can't".

Playing football, singing, music, and public speaking are learned skills.  Yes, there will be those who are faster afoot, and those who are quicker of wit, and that is natural talent, but in each of the actvities you mention the singular determinant of success is the amount of effort spent in practice and training.

I would not expect a freshman to do any of these activities particularly well.  I would expect him or her to work his or her ass off if given a chance to participate.




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RE: Self Esteem - 2/22/2008 8:07:00 AM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline 		Jefff,  I could be wrong but I have the feeling you don't think it's a good thing and you may have missed the point that (I think) julia doesn't either.  Nor do I.  I have a high-functioning, but seriously handicapped son (educationally, neurologically...not so much physically) who was 'mainstreamed' at school.  It is my feeling that the result of which is his shame and embarrassment for being so challenged. 
 
Unless the person has the intelligence of a brick, they are going to KNOW when they are being handed a spot on the team.  I've talked about my mother telling me "Let the boy's win, sometimes, honey".  Where is the joy in that...for either of us?  My son knew it and hated it.  On the other hand, given a spot on a Special Olympics Swimming Team...he just shined!  He won medals and deservedly so. 
 
Isn't that why there are different leagues/divisions/clubs all designed for the different abilities/ages/etc of the athletes?  Why 'dummy down' one so a less qualified (for whatever reason) player can play?  Such practices certainly cannot build character, can it?  I don’t think so!
 
B


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This one, as well!

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