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RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 3:25:30 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Hi

What are your definition of abuse? Most Dom's i know care deeply for their submissives even if they do pain play whit them, or use pain as discipline. Others do not use pain at all. As long as things are consensual i do not see that things a Dom do are abusive so no, a Dom do not need to abuse his sub, and can definitely spoil and love her if he wants.

i wish you well


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(in reply to firmbutloving27)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 7:34:15 AM   
Kaiynasha


Posts: 172
Joined: 10/9/2007
Status: offline 		No one is allowed to abuse anyone. It is against the law.  No sub should consent to that.

MK

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like the experiences that we share when we feel flayed, with our skins
off, scared and vulnerable, and our partner is there with us, willing
to share in the scary stuff"

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 7:49:23 AM   
PsyVamp


Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: firmbutloving27

i want some opionions here on a dom and his sub.
some doms feel you have to be abusive to a sub to have her respect you. i diasagree and feel that you still can be firm and authoratative
when you need to and still love and pamper your sub as both are needed on a regular basis.
how do you feel about this



the girl I mentor right now..just needs my "look" to obey....
If I ask her something...she answers always... or I get the remark..."you will make me answer anyway".
I am not an abbusive person anyway... and honestly..if I need to correct a girl like that often...she doesn't want to be my sub...and she will be released.
Not gonna beat a girl in shape.

btw : I see the word "abbussive"..as something against her will..outside rules one agreed on.



I will have to agree here, I do not want anyone that needs to be kicked around in order to serve.  I refuse to beat anyone into submission.  If they don't want to serve, they can go somewhere else.

So my answer is no, a dominant does NOT need to be abusive.  If the force is non-consensual, the dominant SHOULDN'T be doing it.  I understand that some people have heavy violent play in their dynamic, but it isn't true of all relationships.
I like to be able to spoil my pet, laugh and be affectionate.  If it were all beating and abuse, it wouldn't be for me.

Lady Jag 

_____________________________

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Could a blue screen of death constitute being defenestrated?
~Owner of wolf~ (one of them, anyway)

(in reply to Justme696)
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RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 7:56:19 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: firmbutloving27

i want some opionions here on a dom and his sub.
some doms feel you have to be abusive to a sub to have her respect you.



I can't say that I have ever actually met any Dominant personality that felt that they had to be abusive for the sub to respect him.

But... I suppose their is a few out their.  But I really hope you not taking what you see on line as any creditible representation of what is out in the off line world.



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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 8:08:00 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: firmbutloving27

i want some opionions here on a dom and his sub.
some doms feel you have to be abusive to a sub to have her respect you.



I can't say that I have ever actually met any Dominant personality that felt that they had to be abusive for the sub to respect him.

But... I suppose their is a few out their.  But I really hope you not taking what you see on line as any creditible representation of what is out in the off line world.


Ditto that for me. It seems to go against the whole Dom concept (if there is such a thing...heh). Doms whip or whatever in a carefully orchestrated sensation and emotion play...even if it doesn't appear so. It is the one behavior that defines us. The abuser is a much different specimen.

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 8:17:40 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

Hi

What are your definition of abuse? Most Dom's i know care deeply for their submissives even if they do pain play whit them, or use pain as discipline. Others do not use pain at all. As long as things are consensual i do not see that things a Dom do are abusive so no, a Dom do not need to abuse his sub, and can definitely spoil and love her if he wants.

i wish you well



i too would like to hear the OPs definition of abuse.  There are some who call themselves submissive who think "abuse" is having to get up earlier to make sure the coffee is ready when the Dominant wakes up.  Some think "abuse" is anything painful.  There's such a variety of opinions and personal definitions that i don't know how to even begin to answer the question. 

For example, in my relationship i fully expect that i will do things i don't want to do even 'against my will' and i would never call that abuse.  Master and i share the same limits and i trust Him completely.  He will use me, He will hurt me, that's for certain but He will never abuse me.

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Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Does a dom have to be abusive to his sub? - 2/17/2008 9:25:53 AM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: firmbutloving27

Some doms feel you have to be abusive to a sub to have her respect you. i disagree and feel that you still can be firm and authoritative when you need to and still love and pamper your sub as both are needed on a regular basis.

How do you feel about this?


Your views will get the collective nod of approval, and on many levels, they are "correct" for the overall majority.

Dig a little deeper, get past the politically correct nonsense (and perhaps the furry handcuffs), and you may find this sage wisdom has some cracks and lines.

(in reply to firmbutloving27)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 9:41:10 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Quick response.
If I have to abuse her for her to respect me there is something terribly wrong with me.
Its just my opinion but she should respect me for the man that I am more than the things that I do to her. Respect is something given, to me its on both sides.
If she serves me I will respect her as a person and as mine, but that has nothing to do with dominance, nor does abuse.
There are some secondary questions that come to my mind from the OP's post.
What defines abuse is the first thing?
For some the lack of discipline, the lack of hard consequences, the lack of firmness is much crueler and abusive than anything I may do. In this case it can be the lack of action which is abuse.
I also wonder why abuse has come to be equated with dominance in the first place-they are two radically different things, even for a masochist.
Abuse is a betrayal of trust, dominance is based on trust.
Why has kindness come to be seen by many as weak?
What does that have to do with being dominant? If someone is going to always be harsh, never be supportive and never bear kindness to their submissive it is going to get ugly quick.
Its real easy for humans to tear down, but it takes strength to build up.
Somewhere along the way some of the psychology of BDSM got twisted, its not about fear (well maybe a bit is real nice, but not lots), its about power and authority and the best exercise of those would be what I would call a benevolent dictatorship.The iron fist cloaked in a silken glove.
Just my opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: firmbutloving27

i want some opionions here on a dom and his sub.
some doms feel you have to be abusive to a sub to have her respect you. i diasagree and feel that you still can be firm and authoratative
when you need to and still love and pamper your sub as both are needed on a regular basis.
how do you feel about this


(in reply to firmbutloving27)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Does a dom have to be abusive to his sub? - 2/17/2008 9:42:48 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos


quote:

ORIGINAL: firmbutloving27

Some doms feel you have to be abusive to a sub to have her respect you. i disagree and feel that you still can be firm and authoritative when you need to and still love and pamper your sub as both are needed on a regular basis.

How do you feel about this?


Your views will get the collective nod of approval, and on many levels, they are "correct" for the overall majority.

Dig a little deeper, get past the politically correct nonsense (and perhaps the furry handcuffs), and you may find this sage wisdom has some cracks and lines.


lol why do that..to satisfy even more people?
Perhaps you should say your thoughts..instead of asking an other person to look for more.


< Message edited by Justme696 -- 2/17/2008 9:44:27 AM >

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RE: Does a dom have to be abusive to his sub? - 2/17/2008 10:00:53 AM   
MsDonnaMia


Posts: 95
Joined: 6/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

lol why do that..to satisfy even more people?
Perhaps you should say your thoughts..instead of asking an other person to look for more.



* sigh

(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 10:01:23 AM   
vampchick88


Posts: 346
Joined: 4/10/2007
Status: offline 		I'm a Domme with a male pet. I will NEVER be abusive toward my pet. he knows we'll have scenes where flogging and that sort of thing will take place but never outright abuse. It is just for a scene not for his submission. In our relationship his submission had to be earned, he's a non-traditional slave who has a voice that he's not afraid to voice. I encourage this because it shows he has a backbone and guts. I stress Authority whenever I feel that things are going from playfully joking to another level. I never will beat him just to get him to submit to me ever!

_____________________________

Proud owner of rubberpet, the best investment of my time, trust, and heart that any Domme could ever dream of.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Does a dom have to be abusive to his sub? - 2/17/2008 10:01:38 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		You people are all ingoring the obivious. The op is sub hunting.

(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Does a dom have to be abusive to his sub? - 2/17/2008 10:23:26 AM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Lots of male subs are in this lifestyle to find a woman capable of being 'abusive' enough to make them submit. Problem is then who is submissive to whom?
Doing what a sub wants to make him submit isn't being dominant.
If a sub makes me aggressive and angry I walk away.
If I stay involved I really can become abusive.

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Does a dom have to be abusive to his sub? - 2/17/2008 10:42:20 AM   
MsDonnaMia


Posts: 95
Joined: 6/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

You people are all ingoring the obivious. The op is sub hunting.


Aren't a lot of people hunting on here? But you know you DO raise a good point... people say a lot of fluffy stuff to get the girls. problem is what type of girl are you going to get who buys into that crap, hook line and sinker?

P.s. Edited to add: oh, I know..a girl who is gullible enough to be exploited, lol.

< Message edited by MsDonnaMia -- 2/17/2008 10:46:46 AM >

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 10:42:46 AM   
GuidingLite


Posts: 233
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline
Quote: vampchick88

In our relationship his submission had to be earned, he's a non-traditional slave who has a voice that he's not afraid to voice. I encourage this because it shows he has a backbone and guts!

END quote.



Danggit, this here sub of yours has you wrapped around his finger now don't he. So you saying that traditional slaves that choose to throw themselves at the mercy of an owner to be wholly enslaved has no backbone or guts???? Shoot, any sub that throws herself at the mercy of a mistress to be totally enslaved is the total opposite of weak and spineless. ands to be in that state with her owner takes guts and strength. most cant even be that strong so they should just stick to telling their owner how to deal with them like yours.

(in reply to vampchick88)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 1:42:46 PM   
MistressDawn18


Posts: 5
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline 		I don't think that being 'abusive' has to happen at all. You can make someone obey without ever touching them. It's a mind thing I think. If you want complete submission get into someone's head. It's difficult and time consuming but possible. Then again I could be overly wrong. lol. I am new to this.

But I think that hitting when it's outside of someone's boundries or just to be cruel then No. Not gonna happen. Everyone has limits and those should be respected. Part of being a Dom. is respecting your sub. If that wasn't part of it. then why would we have safewords?

~Dawn

(in reply to GuidingLite)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 2:37:19 PM   
Paulsgirl


Posts: 249
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: firmbutloving27

i want some opionions here on a dom and his sub.
some doms feel you have to be abusive to a sub to have her respect you. i diasagree and feel that you still can be firm and authoratative
when you need to and still love and pamper your sub as both are needed on a regular basis.
how do you feel about this


Then i agree with your feelings and would like to add that certin descriptors like 'abusive' are used in both consensual and non-consensual relatioahips.

i have been abused in both types of relationships.

In a non-consensual setting there was no agreement and there was no responsibility taken for the CONTROL OF THE ABUSE on behalf of my (then) dominant vanilla husbands. i knew and i sensed they had absolutely no control over what triggered their behaviours.

In my primary relationship now i know absolutely that Master Paul has control over his behaviours and so i cosent to His control....not always, but sometimes, usually, mostly all the time, and how He gets my consent is part of the dynamic. But He kows exactly how to master Himseld in order to pass that control unto me. Thus i consent because i feel safe and place mtself totally at His disposal. It's like absailing (even though it feels like freefall) and i put my life, my body, my mind and heart also at His disposal.

We also have made a decsion always to remain friends no matter what and there are of course, as life happens, times where we share behaviours which to all intents and purposes to the outside worl, look vanilla. i don't think my friends or my family or my kids who have seen us together notice anything remarkable about how i change as a consequence of what he does in everyday situations. I am submissive, servile and enjoy bring in service to all and sundry who become guests at my home.

But consensually, in privacy and in intimacy. between ourselves and others we play with, yes there are behaviours which approach, are similar to and undifferentiated from what could objectively be seen as 'abusive' were there not an element of total consensuality.

But the term abuse is by defintion ab-use and is use that causes dysfunction, and maims and disrupts the other's life. Therefore it is me, myself, i, that also has a say in whether it it ab-use or not. i know i can withstand tremendous amounts of pain and humuliation and i know ful well why: this was a 'normal' part of my development and a 'normal' way in which those around me expressed thenselves. women got good-hidings. women got a good thump on a friday night. women got smacked and actually so did the little ones, when the master of the house came home. 50's lifestyle? caveman behaviour? woeking -class hierarchy? Male role models? who knows as i am not into labelling what others do.........

I cannot speak for Him but i am supposing that to the extent to which He needs to use me then I am proud to be used rather than abused.

< Message edited by Paulsgirl -- 2/17/2008 2:41:02 PM >

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~There came a time when the risk to remain tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.~
Anais Nin

(in reply to firmbutloving27)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 4:11:10 PM   
TysGalilah


Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulsgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: firmbutloving27

i want some opionions here on a dom and his sub.
some doms feel you have to be abusive to a sub to have her respect you. i diasagree and feel that you still can be firm and authoratative
when you need to and still love and pamper your sub as both are needed on a regular basis.
how do you feel about this


Then i agree with your feelings and would like to add that certin descriptors like 'abusive' are used in both consensual and non-consensual relatioahips.

i have been abused in both types of relationships.

In a non-consensual setting there was no agreement and there was no responsibility taken for the CONTROL OF THE ABUSE on behalf of my (then) dominant vanilla husbands. i knew and i sensed they had absolutely no control over what triggered their behaviours.

In my primary relationship now i know absolutely that Master Paul has control over his behaviours and so i cosent to His control....not always, but sometimes, usually, mostly all the time, and how He gets my consent is part of the dynamic. But He kows exactly how to master Himseld in order to pass that control unto me. Thus i consent because i feel safe and place mtself totally at His disposal. It's like absailing (even though it feels like freefall) and i put my life, my body, my mind and heart also at His disposal.

We also have made a decsion always to remain friends no matter what and there are of course, as life happens, times where we share behaviours which to all intents and purposes to the outside worl, look vanilla. i don't think my friends or my family or my kids who have seen us together notice anything remarkable about how i change as a consequence of what he does in everyday situations. I am submissive, servile and enjoy bring in service to all and sundry who become guests at my home.

But consensually, in privacy and in intimacy. between ourselves and others we play with, yes there are behaviours which approach, are similar to and undifferentiated from what could objectively be seen as 'abusive' were there not an element of total consensuality.

But the term abuse is by defintion ab-use and is use that causes dysfunction, and maims and disrupts the other's life. Therefore it is me, myself, i, that also has a say in whether it it ab-use or not. i know i can withstand tremendous amounts of pain and humuliation and i know ful well why: this was a 'normal' part of my development and a 'normal' way in which those around me expressed thenselves. women got good-hidings. women got a good thump on a friday night. women got smacked and actually so did the little ones, when the master of the house came home. 50's lifestyle? caveman behaviour? woeking -class hierarchy? Male role models? who knows as i am not into labelling what others do.........

I cannot speak for Him but i am supposing that to the extent to which He needs to use me then I am proud to be used rather than abused.



took back post...re-thought and its not my place to say.
sigh


< Message edited by TysGalilah -- 2/17/2008 4:16:33 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 4:19:26 PM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline 		Master may use me hard to the point most people would think it was abuse, save for the fact I am grinning like a Cheshire cat and whimpering for more. It's not abuse. He is not tearing me down, he is not harming me emotionally, he is dancing as hard as I can and need to. He can be firm and authoratative, demanding, gentle, and spoil me rotten while still giving me what I need pain wise. So no it is not abuse, even if it would make others blanch.  

Conversely if he left me sitting in misery day after day, made me feel worthless, like nothing I ever did was right, untouchable by him, and all I wanted to do was dig a hole, crawl into it and pull it in after me, that would be abuse and I would be gone. Abuse is not always physical, and all that is physical is not abuse.

poenkitten
"There are nights when the wolves are silent and only the moon howls. "
George Carlin

(in reply to firmbutloving27)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: does a dom have to be abbusive to his sub - 2/17/2008 5:13:22 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: firmbutloving27

i want some opionions here on a dom and his sub.
some doms feel you have to be abusive to a sub to have her respect you. i diasagree and feel that you still can be firm and authoratative
when you need to and still love and pamper your sub as both are needed on a regular basis.
how do you feel about this



Lacking love and/or pampering is not abuse.  That's quite a stretch to make.


(in reply to firmbutloving27)
Profile   Post #: 40
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