RE: bird flu hoax (Full Version)

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SugarMyChurro -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 12:40:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
from Sugar's link
The fact that countries where very little was spent on tackling the Y2K bug (like Italy and Korea) fared just as well as those who spent a lot (like the UK and the US) has generated debate on whether the absence of computer failures was the result of the preparation undertaken or whether the significance of the problem had been overstated


I quote what I think are even-handed sources on purpose almost all the time. Does anyone notice this at all?

[;)]




DomKen -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 1:29:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1
Global cooling in the 70s?  Just because Google doesn't put up links for it doesn't mean it dosen't exist.  I was 9 years old in 76, and remeber hearing about it quite a bit.  IIRC It was tied in with the Late Great Planet earth series of Books, and popularised all over the media.  We talked about it in school.  I loved Science Magazines back then, Ranger Rick warned me about it, it was going to hurt the animals, and it was mankind's fault.  It was a lot more than just a Time magazine article.  This is an example of one of the dangers of reliance on the web, if it ain't on the web, it doesn't exist.

You're claiming a bad christian apologist book caused a global cooling scare and that should now be used to discount real science warning of a real climate change issue?



TheHeretic -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 2:00:11 PM)

       Lindsey's book would hardly be considered Christian apologist, Ken.  He didn't come up with the calamities himself, either.  He took what fit from the scientific/social theories of the day, and twisted as required to place them into a pre-existing template of a particular dogma.   (Gee.  Sounds just like when the anti-capitalists decided to get interested in the environment.)

      I don't recall how much credence and space went to 'the coming ice age' in Late, Great, but trying to assign the theory to him is wildly inaccurate.



luckydog1 -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 2:10:06 PM)

dom, I was 9, just saying what I remeber about it.  But it was real scientists saying back then.  The idea was incorparated into lots of things all over the culture, from kids Science magazines to Christians, saying, see Science agrees with us.  Movies, newspapers.  The Enviromental movement was vocal.

But if you say it didn't happen according to your research, you must be right...



DomKen -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 3:23:38 PM)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

Which makes quite clear that there was no scientific consensus that the Earth was cooling and that the biggest contributor to public awareness that this was even considered a possible result of human air pollution was in a couple of newsmagazine articles. Of course you could argue with the thoroughly sourced article and the conclusions drawn there just as you do with the overwhelming present consensus of scientists and evidence that the Earth is warming due to human actions.



Estring -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 3:31:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

Which makes quite clear that there was no scientific consensus that the Earth was cooling and that the biggest contributor to public awareness that this was even considered a possible result of human air pollution was in a couple of newsmagazine articles. Of course you could argue with the thoroughly sourced article and the conclusions drawn there just as you do with the overwhelming present consensus of scientists and evidence that the Earth is warming due to human actions.


Or you could refuse to be a koolaid drinker and acknowledge that there is plenty of scientific dissent on the causes or even the presence of global warming.



TheHeretic -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 3:41:02 PM)

        From the link you posted, Ken.

This hypothesis never had significant scientific support, but gained temporary popular attention.
 
     This is exactly what was being referred to.  Not whether it was valid, but whether it was a media event. 



DomKen -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 6:08:35 PM)

And I'm telling you as teh article points out quite clearly that it was pretty minor back then, an article in Time and another in Newsweek plus a few newspaper articles, and didn't last very long. Now however it is being misused by people as a way to convince the gullible that there is some good reason to disbelieve that human caused global warming is occuring.

Look at the post above yours. There is no significant sceintific dispute over global warming. Virtually without exception those with credentials who deny it is happening belong to a network of professional deniers employed/financed by the oil companies, Exxon in particular.

http://www.exxonsecrets.org/maps.php

When no independent scientist is dissenting and only those funded by those likely to be adversely affected are dissenting I have this strange flashback to the days when the big tobacco companies would send out their paid experts to deny tobacco caused cancer, which we all now know they knew was a lie when they said it.



TheHeretic -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 9:13:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Now however it is being misused by people as a way to convince the gullible that there is some good reason to disbelieve that human caused global warming is occuring.




      No, Ken.  It was being used as an example of scientists offering a theory that turned out to be wrong, and how the media can latch on to it to turn a buck.  Just like the avian flu reports.  Global cooling was a smaller flash in the pan, but it also happened in a much smaller media pan.  Back then, a Time cover meant something.  It's also a fun way to make the true believers turn pretty shades of red.


      I swear...  There is a word I use to describe someone who can't have any conversation that strays from their rigid view of the world.  It describes those who cannot accept any divergent thought or answer.  Baptist.


     



DomKen -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 9:40:20 PM)

Have you not been following things closely the last couple of weeks? How many folks on your side of the idealogical divide have I caught lieing? I listen to divergent opinions and then I investigate them in depth and that is how I keep catching folks you agree with telling lies.

I will give you credit for still having the cojones to try ad hominen after all that has gone on the last few weeks. It takes real commitment to tell someone they're rigid and inflexible when they didn't swallow all of your side's lies.

Now why don't you show us how flexible you are, which books and/or journal articles have you read by professional scientists on the facts of global climate change? Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh don't count BTW.

Did you read the 900+ lies report? Not some editorial but the actual report?



luckydog1 -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 9:42:25 PM)

In the science series Cosmos: A Personal Voyage, physicist Carl Sagan warned of catastrophic cooling through the burning and clear cutting of forests. He postulated that the increased albedo of the earth's surface might lead to a new ice age.

Whats wierd is the same WIKI ARTICLE that domken is using as his argument, says Carl Sagan believed it and put it on his TV show.  Carl Sagan was pushing it, and domken wants to pretend its all a bunch of made up right wing propaganda, beace a WIKKIPEDIA article in the c.atagory .All articles with unsourced statements |

Now Carl Fucking Sagan is a right wing stooge, my god, well wiki says so.

Lets talk about Wiki.  IF you want to get a basic fact, wiki is great.  Questions like, What is the boiling point of Alcohol?  Or what year did the Berlin Wall fall?  Wiki is great for simple facts like that.  For Questions like WHY did the Berlin Wall fall?  Or any sort of analysis type question, Wiki is less then worthless. 



luckydog1 -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 9:45:41 PM)

Yes dom ken we did read the 900 lies report that George Soros paid for.  We also discussed the dates of the events, and the methodology used.   Same incorrect crap we have heard over and over, in a new form and no one cared.  I am curious, what lies are you refering to you catching?



TheHeretic -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 9:58:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Have you not been following things closely the last couple of weeks?



          I must have missed the latest shrieking point.  Don't feel bad, I have no idea about the latest Britney Spears crisis either. 

         It's interesting how those who reject the radical left solution are lumped right in with those who deny there is something going on. 



DomKen -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 10:00:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Yes dom ken we did read the 900 lies report that George Soros paid for.  We also discussed the dates of the events, and the methodology used.   Same incorrect crap we have heard over and over, in a new form and no one cared.  I am curious, what lies are you refering to you catching?

You did? How fast do you read? The report includes a database of 380k words that forms the basis for the research. Using the websites interface i found it to be slow going to slog through the quotes in search of specific ones and found the search interface less that useful. Did you find the flash timeline a slow way to investigate the context of the various quotes?

Really I'm curious, I've spent 10 or 15 hours reading the report since it became available and I'm no where near done, so how long did it take you to read it all?

Or is it safe to assume this is yet another of your lies. Like the various ones I caught you in in this thread?



DomKen -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 10:16:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Have you not been following things closely the last couple of weeks?



         I must have missed the latest shrieking point.  Don't feel bad, I have no idea about the latest Britney Spears crisis either. 

        It's interesting how those who reject the radical left solution are lumped right in with those who deny there is something going on. 


So you aren't denying global warming? Going through your posts on the subject shows a rather interesting series of flip flops from maybe to outright denial
Maybe:
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=957842
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=978587
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1613013

Denial:
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1598988
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1533391
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1066852
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1070635

Now if I could see anything in these posts to show an evolution of opinion one way or another I could respect that but what I see is occasional claims of I'm reasonable and an environmentalist in between accusations that folks who want to see a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions are crypto communists out to rule the world.



luckydog1 -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 10:27:30 PM)

Well I saw that you lied and claimed Burkett never had contact with the Democratic Party or the Kerry Campaign.  I gave you proof that it had indeed happened, no response or acknowledgemnt from you.  Sort of like the fact that Carl Sagan was pushing Global Cooling in the 70s.  I don't expect that little fact from the page you cited to be adressed, much better to scream liar.

Now you did catch me wrong in that thread.  Gore only mentioned the program, not the details of Hortons case.  And I admitted it and corrected myself.  Getting a small detail mixed up from an event 25 years ago isn't a lie, if you admit it when corrected. 

Kerry never released his medical records relating to his decorations, so for you to claim he released it all is a lie.  And you still hold to it.   Also Kerry could have recieved a less than honorable discharge with out there being a Court Martial, and Kerry continues to keep that secret.  And you still lie and say he released all the relevant stuff.  See if you admited, ok Burkett did meet with Kerry's campaign manager, you wouldn't still be lying about it.  Its not even an opinion, its a bold fact.

There is was asmuch linkage between Atwater and the Republicans or Republicans and the SBVFTand Soros and the Dems or the NAACP and the Dems.  You want a double standard.  Bush didn't run the ads with Horton in them.. The Ad's bush ran on the issue, and it was indeed a legitimate issue, featured mostly white prisioners going through a revolving door. 



luckydog1 -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 10:31:52 PM)

So this is a post you catagorise as denial on Heretics part,

"  It is semantics, Sanity, but it matters.  "Global Warming" has become the preferred terminology of a politically motivated group that blames climate change on capitalism.  You brought in the buzz-term, when the article was talking about it from the less loaded term of "Climate Change."

         Think in terms of, 'it's happening and it's all your fault because you're baa-aaad' vs "it's happening and we don't really understand the complexities." "

If that's how you define denial, you should be able to find 10,000 lies by Bush, at least.



TheHeretic -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 10:34:02 PM)

         Think in terms of, 'it's happening and it's all your fault because you're baa-aaad' vs "it's happening and we don't really understand the complexities."

        There you go making my point for me again.  You popped this into the denial column.  To deny your version is to deny the whole.   Mighty Christian of you.


http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=1070635

     Then we have your link to this statement.  I'll stand right next to that.  If that makes me "the enemy" then so be it.

       I'm not denying that climate change might be related to human activity.  I'm challenging the explanations, and rejecting the solutions that say we have to kill the patient to save the bed.



DomKen -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 10:47:19 PM)

Let's see you lied twice that Al Gore first mentioned Horton. I corrected you both times and you never acknowledged the error.

You claimed that Dukakis vetoed the furlough repeal after furloughed inmates had commited murders and rapes. Corrected you twice. No acknowledgemnt that you lied and a third weasel worded attempt to make it into a syntactic argument.

You claimed the Kerry campaign was involved in the CBS forged document scandal. I pointed out correctly that the producer of the piece put Burkett in contact with the Kerry campaign. I pointed out that this happened after the story had been developed and it was quite clear the forgeries were not done by or at the direction of the Kerry campaign or the Democratic campaign. You then tried to claim I didn't admit there had been contact. Another flat out lie.

You also tried to claim you didn't ask a question where you claimed the Democrats paid for the 900+ lies report. I posted the quotes to that one one after the other in that thread to nicely show your lies.

Probably should have stuck to my guns and ignored you in this thread but your claim to have read the lies report was just too ludicrous to let pass without comment. Now why don't you let the grown ups carry on their conversation while you work on your veracity.




luckydog1 -> RE: bird flu hoax (2/16/2008 10:54:40 PM)

Yes yes, the grown ups.

Lets all remeber, I pointed out what the link you cited in this thread said that contradicted you, and you wanted to go on a  tangent of calling me a liar for a thread a month ago.  Which I did openly acknowledge my mistakes on.  And you never acknowledged your lies about Kerry releasing all his records (he didn't, are you going to finally admit it?) or the Burkett meeting.   You asser that the Swifties are republicans, but freak out at the idea that Soros is.  I like talking to you.  Exposing this sort of partisan double standard is fun.

Lets hear the grown up response to the fact that your cited source says Carl Sagan was popularising the idea on his TV program.  Saying it was just Time and a few newspapers is either a lie or a mistake on your part.  Which is it?



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