Guns laws and depression meds (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 1:08:02 PM)

Just to mention in light of all the shootings.... tougher laws are being considerred, which clamps down on people who are on certain rxs.  im not taking a position on it- tho i do feel a mans home is his castle.







LadyEllen -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 1:21:40 PM)

What about doctor/patient confidentiality?

Mind you, a few years back when I was prescribed depression medication - THE NEXT DAY, the police firearms officer turned up to take my shotgun. The licence wasnt due, I'd done nothing, so I can only put it down to my visit to the doctor, who must have informed police immediately.

As it happens, my shotgun was a 6ft tall matchlock musket (17th century reproduction) - useless for suicide (couldnt possibly shoot yourself in the head as you couldnt reach the trigger!) and useless for a rampage - best reload rate I made was three shots per minute (after a lot of practice) - but usually only about ten shots before misfires were recurrent.

E




Gwynvyd -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 1:41:49 PM)

It is a slippery slope.. ( how I hate that phrase)

In some ways.... it would protect and save many lives.. however... you are taking away a civil liberty.. and right. How many people would not go for help on the premise of  "they aint gonna take my gun from me" ? You have to balance it out ya know... Plus I would hate to be the officer who would have to go to the persons house and take thier weapons.. some of those rednecks get down right mean about shit like that.. *chuckles and winks* I know I would. "Gun control" in my family means using both hands.. cuz it kicks.

However.. I think the nutjob that went after all those people at Virgina Tech should have *Never* been given a gun lic. He was in and out of the facilites... They *knew* he wasnt right.

I think anyone who has undergone a involuntary psychiatric exam, or Voluntary one... and deemed as anything other then 100% A OK should not be in possession of a fire arm untill they are cleared by at least 2 Dr's. There are felony databases... it just pops up and says this person can not be sold to. It should do the same.. no details.. just a solid no.
 
 
I have known some seriously unstable people whom I wish didnt have guns... So I guess in light of that.. and all of these shootings... they make these law ideas seem feasable.
 
Gwyn




pahunkboy -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 1:44:06 PM)

a true conservative would have undone the Brady bill.   it is no where on the list.  i routinely look thru my medical file- and cross out inaccurrate scribble.  tho that isnt enuff.  

i live in red neck gun country- the modes of killing are quite riddled....the gun isnt the main item.

we actually had a home invasion up in the next town north....  let the intruder beware....




pahunkboy -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 1:46:39 PM)

we reap what we sow -as a culture. we been rumbling say iraq and other places- and the disregard for life is coming home to roost which the culture of violence doesnt help




Real0ne -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 1:51:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd
I think anyone who has undergone a involuntary psychiatric exam, or Voluntary one... and deemed as anything other then 100% A OK should not be in possession of a fire arm untill they are cleared by at least 2 Dr's. There are felony databases... it just pops up and says this person can not be sold to. It should do the same.. no details.. just a solid no.



So you are for trashing the constitution then.  Constitutionally a felon is elligible to own and bear as well. (anyone not in jail)

So we should just toss that all out for pre-emptive punitive measures?  Why bother waiting for a crime to be committed?  Punishment because they "might" commit a crime?

Why not do the job constitutionally and require everone to own and "bear"?  

The nut job would nat have killed very many if they all had guns either. (and thats constitutional too)












kdsub -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 2:50:47 PM)

I just don’t think gun laws, of any kind, will stop someone determined to kill. Here in my hometown we just had a man walk into our city council meeting and kill four of my friends and colleagues. He had already killed one police officer outside and stolen his weapon.

All the gun laws in the world would not have stopped him from committing murder. If there had been better security he would have just killed somewhere else.  Then it could have been me in his sites…I was on his list.

There is a sickness in our world…an evil… gun laws have not slowed the spread of violence and never will.

I hate to say it but maybe it is time to arm against this evil…If good people at the meeting had weapons then this would not have happened.

I know arming everyone is not the best solution but what is?

Butch




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 2:52:40 PM)

they should be banned from home owners.  kids have easy access to them and you have kids now taking these guns and using them on innocents.  20 years ago i would say dif...but now a days...too risky to have one in the home.




LadybugBlue -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 4:16:20 PM)

While I do not own a gun and I am on anti-depressants, I do not think that a disease should impede my or anyone's right to bear arms as stated in the constitution.  Granted bearing arms shouldn't mean a rocket launcher or a sub-machine gun or assault rifle, but if proper gun safety is practiced and if everyone who has access to the gun knows how to properly use it, I see no problem with them. 

If a person wants to kill themselves or others, they don't need a gun to do it.  Look at how many deaths occur due to DUI's annually.  Violence isn't caused by weapons but by people and a lack of civic morality.




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 4:20:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd
It is a slippery slope.. ( how I hate that phrase)


You should vary it with the 'thin end of wedge' one, variety is the spice of life etc. [8|]




GreedyTop -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 4:40:49 PM)

Sorry for your losses, Butch




kdsub -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 5:39:34 PM)

Thank you GreedyTop.... It was a shock... there is still a lot of anger brewing...but I'll get over it.

kdsub




laurell3 -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 5:45:55 PM)

Well denying constitutional rights to people with a disability isn't exactly what our country is based on is it?  In areas where permits are required it is possible to be turned down for mental instability.  I would suggest to you though the majority of the people that are causing the biggest problem are the ones NOT on meds or not taking their presecribed meds.  The people with mental illness on meds really aren't the problem.

The reality is this pa.  We are unsafe in our world and no law, no cop, no vision anyone dreams of will keep the unbalanced from snapping and taking people out in a homocidal spree.  Restricting the rights of people that are actually dealing with their mental illness won't change this.  It will however deny many the constitutional rights our country is founded on.

By the way, the last study I saw indicated there are at least MILLLIONS of Americans on depression meds and that may be a conservative estimate based on self-reporting only.




Sinergy -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 6:39:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

What about doctor/patient confidentiality?



I have to agree with LadyEllen, the government has no business getting involved in medical care for the individual.

Despite what the people who want to overturn Roe vs. Wade seem to believe.

Sinergy

p.s.  Yes, it is exactly the same issue.  Doctors did not sign up to enforce laws.  They signed up to provide proper medical care and help to people to the best of their ability.




Real0ne -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 7:09:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

they should be banned from home owners.  kids have easy access to them and you have kids now taking these guns and using them on innocents.  20 years ago i would say dif...but now a days...too risky to have one in the home.


Have you considered moving to the uk?  They have banned weapons there.  (of course there is always a down side.  They also have a higher rate of "violent"  crime than we do here :)




Real0ne -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 7:19:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadybugBlue

While I do not own a gun and I am on anti-depressants, I do not think that a disease should impede my or anyone's right to bear arms as stated in the constitution.  Granted bearing arms shouldn't mean a rocket launcher or a sub-machine gun or assault rifle, but if proper gun safety is practiced and if everyone who has access to the gun knows how to properly use it, I see no problem with them. 

If a person wants to kill themselves or others, they don't need a gun to do it.  Look at how many deaths occur due to DUI's annually.  Violence isn't caused by weapons but by people and a lack of civic morality.




Actually bearing arms meant precisely that!

The whole idea of bearing arms is 2 fold.   First for personal protection and secondly to fight off a "despot government" where by arms it is meant that anything a "standing army" has we should have in greater number so that when the last drop of blood hits the dirt the "people" will prevail over the army to create a new government.

That was the intent of the "right to own and bear"


Its spelled out pretty clearly here;

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.


shall we talk about the patriot act?  removal of habeous corpus, fisa, etc etc.   congress violating their oath of office time and time again?  att spying on people and congress sanctioning it!

Sounds like a despot government to me.







Muttling -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 7:26:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
.  i routinely look thru my medical file- and cross out inaccurrate scribble. 




Excuse me??????



Who exactly allows you to cross out stuff that YOU deam to be "inaccurate scribble"?  You medical files are open to you by law, but they are not open for you to so easily ammend.   I've never even heard of someone being able to change medical records.   Make post ammendments to them, but completely cross out stuff???


On a side note, I'm NOT a medical person but I do know that there are many medical people on this forum.  I'd love to hear one of them chime in on the realities of this discussion.




Muttling -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/15/2008 7:31:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

they should be banned from home owners.  kids have easy access to them and you have kids now taking these guns and using them on innocents.  20 years ago i would say dif...but now a days...too risky to have one in the home.



So what about home owners who do not have children?

What about children who live in rental properties?




On a reality note, kids today have FAR less access to weapons than they did 20 to 50 years ago.   In days gone by, gun ownership was a U.S. mainstay as was hunting.   I am all for keeping guns locked away from kids, but to say that the recent rash is a result of easier access doesn't reflect reality in the United States.



edit.....I'm fairly certain is does not reflect reality in Canada either as they only toughened the gun laws in recent decades.




snowboardinpa -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/16/2008 11:42:59 AM)

my possion on this. see the 2nd ammendment.

an adavid shooter and someone that carrys 24/7/365




Real0ne -> RE: Guns laws and depression meds (2/17/2008 11:58:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Muttling

On a reality note, kids today have FAR less access to weapons than they did 20 to 50 years ago.   In days gone by, gun ownership was a U.S. mainstay as was hunting.   I am all for keeping guns locked away from kids, but to say that the recent rash is a result of easier access doesn't reflect reality in the United States.


That is interesting since while very few people actually locked their guns up 50 years ago neither was there 290,000,000 known guns in the hands of private ownership.  Seems like a tough call to me.




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