RE: Male or Female who stays home (Full Version)

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Reflectivesoul -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 2:16:14 AM)

oh see, now I knew you could say something intelligent, well done :D
 
*side note if I wanted to add to the particular thread I would have done so previously, I was merely prodding you to see if you would come back and post something a bit more coherent*



Foititis -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 3:11:44 AM)

What I said was perfectly coherent, I was just trying to show I’m in touch with the world's youth.... ^_^



Edit- my spelling on the other hand...



Reflectivesoul -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 4:24:14 AM)

Damn keyboard deamons lol get all of us at one point or another..



LadyHathor -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 4:34:42 AM)

I'm good with whatever works. I agree that we can hardly live on one income these days--well most of us can't anyway Personally I seek a male wife, yet I do expect him to work part time, it offsets additional costs and lets him get out a bit. Even though I work full time, well at times more than full time, each has their respective chores---its whatever works for that family---just don't preach it to others.



DesFIP -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 5:10:59 AM)

I think kids do better with an at home parent, not coming home to an empty house. Wandering around town in their teens is an invitation to get into trouble. Plus they have someone to help with homework when they still have the energy. Waiting alone for four hours then dinner and then at 8:00PM start homework when everyone's exhausted makes it rough. Coming home, having a snack, and then sitting with a supportive parent gets it done faster plus they can often help when the kid gets stuck.

My som doesn't usually need help, but he works better if I'm sitting there with him. Plus there's a closeness then that allows him to talk about what's on his mind. And that's priceless.



kitttty -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 5:53:17 AM)

quote:

I think kids do better with an at home parent, not coming home to an empty house. Wandering around town in their teens is an invitation to get into trouble. Plus they have someone to help with homework when they still have the energy. Waiting alone for four hours then dinner and then at 8:00PM start homework when everyone's exhausted makes it rough. Coming home, having a snack, and then sitting with a supportive parent gets it done faster plus they can often help when the kid gets stuck.

My som doesn't usually need help, but he works better if I'm sitting there with him. Plus there's a closeness then that allows him to talk about what's on his mind. And that's priceless.


I *hated* having a sahm from about sixth grade on. Before that I was just indifferent to it. I know there were a lot of kids in my shoes who wanted nothing less than to come home and have to rehash your day to an adult listener and mine was pretty strongly pining for conversation at 3pm.

I honestly don't have fond memories of my mother being present after I came home from school. I think it caused problems in our relationship that last till this day. It was just so damned annoying to have someone there all the time and led to soooo many fights.
It's annoying to have a roommate that is around all the time. My mom was like some kind of busybody roommate who was around about all the time. I really did not want someone pestering me about what I had to do or what I did in school.

In any case, mom has a job now and is a much healthier person because of it.

I'm all for staying at home, but I'm pretty certain that its value towards children is generally overrated.



thetammyjo -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 6:46:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shysub0951

i was watching Wife Swap just a few minutes ago, yea it was the only thing on tonight that at least interested me. Anyways, one family says that their husband is the one who has to work while his wife and daughters be the serviant women. Meaning, his daughters and wife are the ones who have to stay home and clean, cook, and wait on the husband/dad hand and foot. Where as the other family says just the opposite with the wife has to work and be the breadwinner and the husband stays home and does the cleaning and cooking, etc.
What are your thoughts on this? Do you think that only one person is "designated" to be the breadwinner while the other stays home and does all household chores around the house? Or do you think that it should be a fair and equal that both people put in a day/nights work and that both share the household chores?


I think the reality of a money culture dictates most of these situations.

Then religious beliefs and models from childhood dictate much of the rest.

Ideally I think human beings are healthiest when they are encouraged to be the best they can be, to play to their strengths, to work on their weaknesses, and offered the opportunities to be happy. To become fully functioning adults we need to know how to do all of the things necessary in life even if we dislike those things -- if nothing else getting that knowledge helps us hire those who enjoy that work and are better at it with some understanding so we can make the best choice.

Sadly I don't think my first to observations easily lend themselves to what I consider to be a healthy goal. To find what works best for each individual requires experimentation and self-reflection plus as much honest objectivity as possible. I don't think a money culture, religion, or childhood models are about those things but instead about generalities and quite arguably controlling masses of individuals for the benefit of a much smaller group.






toservez -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 7:56:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I love wife swap and the "you go do X work while I do Y work cuz that's how things are supposed to be because of the bits between our legs" is a very common theme.

Anyone who thinks dangly bits between legs should be what decides not only what work you are good/best at, but what work should be done for the betterment of the family unit is a bit off their rocker.

Now, if that's just how they want it, how they feel it's best for them, and following some beliefs and can admit it's irrational, then more power to them.  They can be as irrational as they want.

For me I'll go with "what works best for us all" and say that bits between legs is irrelevant.

Also- we watch Wife Swap so much that we've developed a drinking game for it (though we don't actually drink) and take bets at the start on who will cry first


I am going to have to disagree with this partly.

I am with everyone that it is completely up to the people in the relationship and economic conditions are what makes any situation right of an individual couple.

But I am sorry there is a reality that spans pretty much the lifetime of civilization. Most men in general are not comfortable not being the main or biggest bread winner in a family, tend not to have any inclination of being the dominant caretaker of the children and tend not to have the same ability or expectations of much of the domestic work. I am sorry if this offends people or people point to the minority example but whether it is because I was raised in a different culture or by a sociologist Mom there is a very strong pattern of roles in society that cannot just be tossed off as men keeping women down or it is simply conditioning.

I also do not mean to say there is judgment right or wrong in any situation because there is none but I think being dismissive of the root of why in pretty much all societies throughout history have the same roles. For example, I am a nurse and work in an area that pays very well and more time then not people like me date men who make significantly less then us. We had a term when discussing a relationship in my prior job called “the talk”. It was the inevitable talk when the relationship got serious and the man figured out we made a lot more then them. It was always well when you get married don’t you want to work part time or would you not rather work [insert less paying place and position]. In other words most men want to be the bread winner and have a female somewhat financially dependent on them.

So it of course is up to the individuals in the relationship but lets not be so politically correct to think that there is nothing going on underneath the surface when the main majority of these individual relationships fall into traditional roles whether embraced or not.





Mercnbeth -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 8:55:30 AM)

quote:

What are your thoughts on this?


that just like dominance and submission, it isn't a male/female thing.

quote:

...Do you think that only one person is "designated" to be the breadwinner while the other stays home and does all household chores around the house? Or do you think that it should be a fair and equal that both people put in a day/nights work and that both share the household chores?


entering into a D/s or M/s relationship, this slave would expect the "D" or "M" to decide how the relationship will be served by the "s", including who will be responsible for what--breadwinning, household chores, sexual activities, etc.
 
the above is not a one-size-fits-all answer, however, it is merely how this slave rolls.  this slave wholeheartedly believes folks should do what works for them and fulfills them, according to their individual and unique dynamic.



SayaNereida -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 9:08:46 AM)

quote:

Do you think that only one person is "designated" to be the breadwinner while the other stays home and does all household chores around the house? Or do you think that it should be a fair and equal that both people put in a day/nights work and that both share the household chores?


I've actually, at one time or another, been in all 3 positions: breadwinner, shared responsibility while both work and stay at home.

As breadwinner and shared, I enjoyed my job and family but I never felt I gave either my full attention.  Now as a stay at home, I feel like I give home and family my full attention. 

My feeling is that if it finacially possible and one person wants to stay home, it's far better for the home, family and the relationship; at least for us it is.

I prefer, and enjoy, being able to give home/family/him/relationship all the love, attention and energy they deserve.  Personally I'm happier, calmer and more fulfilled now than I was when I was trying to do it all.

Of course every one does what works best for them.

Saya



lateralist1 -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 9:22:16 AM)

The debate continues.
My opinions are
1 Everyone should earn enough to keep themselves in the necessities of life if they are capable of doing so.
2 Everyone should learn the skills necessary to look after themselves and their home.
3 Every parent should we able to meet the needs of their own child.
4 Children are better being looked after for a reasonable amount of the time by caring able people other than their family.
So for a two parent family part-time work for both adults sounds like the ideal situation. However the world is not always an ideal place so we make the best of our own circumstances. Better both people in full-time work than one working and the other not.
The main problems that people have when a relationship is over is the ability to cope with everyday life without the other.
We do not know what will happen in the future.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 10:33:45 AM)

quote:

1 Everyone should earn enough to keep themselves in the necessities of life if they are capable of doing so.
2 Everyone should learn the skills necessary to look after themselves and their home.
3 Every parent should we able to meet the needs of their own child.
4 Children are better being looked after for a reasonable amount of the time by caring able people other than their family.


lateralist,
Not a challenge to your opinion but an observation.

All but the last of your four points is in total opposition of what people expect to get from the nanny government.
1. If people don't earn enough - the government should subsidize.
2. If people don't learn the skills - they are graduated from school anyway.
3. If people can't take care of their children - government provided 'free breakfast/lunch' is given at the school.

Does that mean that the ideal illustration of a 'relationship' is indicated by government entitlement programs?

Regarding point #4 - My "opinion" is that my children would be "better" if looked after by anyone other than a parent. However - observing some parent's treatment of their children, your point is valid.

As for me and mine - I'm very pleased that my slave serves no other Master and is at my beck and call 24/7/365 (Actually 366 this year).



celticlord2112 -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 10:39:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shysub0951

i was watching Wife Swap just a few minutes ago, yea it was the only thing on tonight that at least interested me. Anyways, one family says that their husband is the one who has to work while his wife and daughters be the serviant women. Meaning, his daughters and wife are the ones who have to stay home and clean, cook, and wait on the husband/dad hand and foot. Where as the other family says just the opposite with the wife has to work and be the breadwinner and the husband stays home and does the cleaning and cooking, etc.
What are your thoughts on this? Do you think that only one person is "designated" to be the breadwinner while the other stays home and does all household chores around the house? Or do you think that it should be a fair and equal that both people put in a day/nights work and that both share the household chores?


I think this is another example of "to each his own". Each dynamic works for the respective participants; why inquire further than that?

There is no absolute "must" in relationships. There is what works for specific people.



kittinSol -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 10:55:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shysub0951

Anyways, one family says that their husband is the one who has to work while his wife and daughters be the serviant women. Meaning, his daughters and wife are the ones who have to stay home and clean, cook, and wait on the husband/dad hand and foot.



So this couple are bringing up their daughters to be subserviant alongside their mother? I think that's terribly, terribly wrong: effectively, they're denying their daughters the opportunity to grow up choosing who and what they'll be. It's bordering on criminal, and that man's a @#$%&%#$ hole. And the wife too, come to think of it.

PS: so no, it's not 'each to their own' in this particular case.



TracyTaken -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 11:13:33 AM)

I'm a stay at home - for the moment anyway.  I'm taking college courses but in some ways miss the work world, and some extra income would be nice. 

But, it's very nice to have the weekends free.  When I worked, all the housework and errands that piled up during the week was what we did on weekends.  Now we can play instead (unless we are doing remodel work).  Even so, it's still a struggle to keep up with everything I feel like I should be doing.



DesFIP -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 12:25:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitttty

I *hated* having a sahm from about sixth grade on. Before that I was just indifferent to it. I know there were a lot of kids in my shoes who wanted nothing less than to come home and have to rehash your day to an adult listener and mine was pretty strongly pining for conversation at 3pm.

I honestly don't have fond memories of my mother being present after I came home from school. I think it caused problems in our relationship that last till this day. It was just so damned annoying to have someone there all the time and led to soooo many fights.
It's annoying to have a roommate that is around all the time. My mom was like some kind of busybody roommate who was around about all the time. I really did not want someone pestering me about what I had to do or what I did in school.

In any case, mom has a job now and is a much healthier person because of it.

I'm all for staying at home, but I'm pretty certain that its value towards children is generally overrated.


The fact that she didn't talk to anyone else during the day nor did she do anything during the day doesn't mean all SAH parents are like that. Nor do all pounce on the um the second they walked through the door demanding interaction. Some are capable of being in the background until needed.

Ever have a parent come in and help in class? Make copies for the teacher, help on field trips, run the book fair?  I'm sorry you had bad experiences with it, but you're tarring with a pretty wide brush there.



StormsSlave -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 12:37:52 PM)

My man stayed home for a year while I worked.  I came home exhausted every day from an extremely physical job (I was a very soft former office worker).  Someone was there to care for the dogs, run errands, cook food (good lord!  The man is almost as good in the kitchen as he is in the bedroom.).  He kept the house from being a complete pit.  He cared for me cause I cared for him.  He went back to work two weeks ago, and so I'm coming home from 12 hour shifts of speed-walking and semi-heavy lifting to wash dishes and clean house.  He still cares for the dogs and does the cooking when he's not too exhausted himself.  Let's just say we're eating more takeout.

I like it better the other way, and I think so did he.  However, his working is right for us as it will help us reach future financial goals.  Either way, we were working together on a path toward our combined future.

Me?  I've been a SAH mom, and nearly lost my mind.  I think I'd like to try it again someday with the benefit of my added years of experience.



thetammyjo -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 2:14:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: shysub0951

Anyways, one family says that their husband is the one who has to work while his wife and daughters be the serviant women. Meaning, his daughters and wife are the ones who have to stay home and clean, cook, and wait on the husband/dad hand and foot.



So this couple are bringing up their daughters to be subserviant alongside their mother? I think that's terribly, terribly wrong: effectively, they're denying their daughters the opportunity to grow up choosing who and what they'll be. It's bordering on criminal, and that man's a @#$%&%#$ hole. And the wife too, come to think of it.

PS: so no, it's not 'each to their own' in this particular case.


Sadly I watched part of this show too and at one point the father in that household literally removed one of his daughters, god only knows what he did to/with her, until he got the swapped wife to agree to not talk to her about anything outside his limited view. I felt very sad for that child because her personality seemed so dead when she got back. Made me shudder.

I think the more liberal husband (both called themselves Christians by the way) called it right when he said he though the other man was reacting out of fear. I think that's sad.

Like I said in my first post in this thread. Ideals are limited by the environment in which we are raised and economic necessity. I'm an idealist though.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/14/2008 7:12:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
I think kids do better with an at home parent, not coming home to an empty house. Wandering around town in their teens is an invitation to get into trouble. Plus they have someone to help with homework when they still have the energy.

I certainly won't dent having a guardian at home can be a good thing- but in our house having the bills paid was more important, and my mom stopped being able to help me with my homework at around age 11.



shysub0951 -> RE: Male or Female who stays home (2/15/2008 1:47:32 PM)

i have always been a "latchkey" kid when i was growing up. My parents usually didn't get home until around 6-7 at night, then dinner would be about 8-8:30, depending if my mom had the day off. And trying to find homework time didn't really come up a lot of the time. But when my mom was home after school, we would do homework together and then go out and enjoy the rest of the afternoon together before my dad came home from work.



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