Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement

Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (Full Version)

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Level -> Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 4:45:26 PM)
quote: Quietly, while Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have been inspiring Democrats everywhere with their rolling bitchfest, congressional superduo Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have completed one of the most awesome political collapses since Neville Chamberlain. At long last, the Democratic leaders of Congress have publicly surrendered on the Iraq War, just one year after being swept into power with a firm mandate to end it. Solidifying his reputation as one of the biggest pussies in U.S. political history, Reid explained his decision to refocus his party's energies on topics other than ending the war by saying he just couldn't fit Iraq into his busy schedule. "We have the presidential election," Reid said recently. "Our time is really squeezed." There was much public shedding of tears among the Democratic leadership, as Reid, Pelosi and other congressional heavyweights expressed deep sadness that their valiant charge up the hill of change had been thwarted by circumstances beyond their control — that, as much as they would love to continue trying to end the catastrophic Iraq deal, they would now have to wait until, oh, 2009 to try again. "We'll have a new president," said Pelosi. "And I do think at that time we'll take a fresh look at it." http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/18349197/the_chicken_doves

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 4:59:36 PM)
Corporate cock-sucking thugs - every one of them. And on their knees already for military suppliers, the health insurers and big pharma as well. Pathetic. See? No left. No REAL left anyway.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 5:05:20 PM)
quote: See? No left. No REAL left anyway. There's no REAL right wingers in there either. In fact, most politicians don't have any ideology. They are nihilistic, opportunists that worship at the altar of Mammon. Real right wingers wanted nothing to do with this war, and we have said so from the beginning.

luckydog1 -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 5:09:41 PM)
Now I have been told by several Democratic posters on here that this is totall BS, and just NEO CON lies. Too bad sinergy doesn't come around. Taibbi, and Rolling Stone was his favorite source to quote.

TheHeretic -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 6:22:40 PM)
But if we give them even more power in November, they might think about it. I hope Cindy Sheehan decides to take Pelosi's seat away from her (just because it would be so much fun to watch).

luckydog1 -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 8:24:03 PM)
Heretic, I think it speaks to deeper issues than that. If they thought they would gain by stopping the war ASAP, they would. it shows that they really understand what it at stake, while blowing smoke up thier supporters' asses. They know the consequences of yanking the troops and walking away would be catastrophic for America. And they know it would have been catastrophic at the voting table, not to mention all the "Reagan Democrats". But they like pandering the issue for the votes, which to me is disgusting as it involves the troops, but freedom of speech of course trumps, and they can say whatever they like. And it shows they know they did not win in 06 on a mandate of yanking the troops from Iraq.

TheHeretic -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 8:27:53 PM)
Wait until you see what happens to all that "every vote needs to count" rhetoric as we go into their convention.

luckydog1 -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 8:32:09 PM)
Yeah, that's gonna be some shit Heretic. Thier whole caucus/primary system is a show that can be decided by the "Super Delegates". It's ridiculous after listening to 8 years of rhetoric about stolen elections. Imagine Hillary v Mcain, with huge blocs of base refusing to go along with the party. It could be a mess, possibly violence in places.

Real0ne -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 8:51:08 PM)
Thanks to diebold voting is old fashioned and out of style.

Owner59 -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 9:29:15 PM)
It was all opinion. Just one man`s opinion and he seems to be to the left of Dennis Kucinich. So what? This is all on Bush and his minions. Like a hostage taker holding a knife to the throat of a victim(in this case,our GIs),he`s not going to take no for an answer. Bush has already indicated that he wouldn`t withdraw them,that they would languish in Iraq without supplies or equipment and that it would be all the democrats fault if they suffered.That`s on the record. Bush is gaming this tragedy and using our boys as pawns.Disgraceful.He`s supposed to be a leader and protector.He`s neither. Tom Delay is in big trouble for the way he strong armed his fellow republicans.Bribes,conspiracy,threats,money laundering,plus being a back-stabbing lying cheating mother fucker. To fault the dems for not crawling into the sewer with Delay and Hastert and doing what they did is ridiculous. I understand the guy`s frustration.We(normal Americans)all are. I find it disgusting that neo-cons would use the failure to stop the Iraq war, as a dig against Dems. True the Dems have failed,for now,but not for trying. They aren`t willing to do just anything,to achieve their goals,including breaking the law,like Tom DeLay did. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1020051delay1.html http://www.dropthehammer.org/corruption/ If the guy is upset because Pelosi and Reed won`t stoop as low as Delay,even for something as important as getting us out of the Iraqi civil war,then he`s not going to get anywhere b/c they won`t. http://www.nytimes.com/ref/washington/delay-timeline.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,190423,00.html

TheHeretic -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 9:38:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 I find it disgusting that neo-cons would use the failure to stop the Iraq war, as a dig against Dems. We aren't allowed to mention their failures and lies in an election season? What kind of fascist crap is that? It was all a lie in the first place.

Owner59 -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 9:46:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 Yeah, that's gonna be some shit Heretic. Thier whole caucus/primary system is a show that can be decided by the "Super Delegates". It's ridiculous after listening to 8 years of rhetoric about stolen elections. Imagine Hillary v Mcain, with huge blocs of base refusing to go along with the party. It could be a mess, possibly violence in places. Your prediction and hope of doom and gloom,are telling. FYI,this hasn`t happened and the only people talking about it happening, are ass hole media types who want drama. I`m not surprised that you`re unable to comprehend the proportional awarding of delegates that the dems are using.You never disappoint,lucky.Your mistaken if you think that others can`t get it either. That you would pretend to know that it was a sham or "fixed" ,is just poop.Dog poop,luckydog. It`s just like a liar to claim ignorance and expertise on the same subject in the same paragraph. Your comparison with the known steeling of votes by republicans with the dem`s delegate system, is also telling. One thing that won`t happen,is changing the rules halfway through,to favor one or the other. This isn`t the republican party we`re talking about here. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aKtUrlQ.Os9g&refer=us http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54572-2004Nov16.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/26/AR2005042601295.html

luckydog1 -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 10:02:38 PM)
That you are pretending to not know about the Superdelagate votes (choosen by the Party and can vote for whomever they choose) says a lot. That you are pretending to not even know about the issue is kind of funny. Randi Rhoades who you have cited many times, is on the radio saying she won't vote for Hillary if her nomination is due to the SuperDelegates. Ed Schultz is pissed about, every thinking Dem is, its all over the blogs. That you are pretending to not even know the issue exists is amusing. That is a tried and tested Democratic strategy, it ususally elects Republicans.Why is Taibbi relevant? He is the Lead Political Editor for Rolling Stone, which is often cited in these pages as a reliable source. And is pretty influential among the youth vote. You guys loved him when he was slamming Bush, now he is pointing the light at your side, and he becomes an irrelevant leftist. owner you gave the "wel,l Pelosi wont break the law to force her people to vote the way she wants, as opposed to Delay", line before, but you ignored my question about it. . Lets pretend that is true. Why would Pelosi have to force the Dems to vote to end the war? Why would she need to force them, if it is what they want and the mandate they were elected for?

Owner59 -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/12/2008 10:59:29 PM)
quote: Why would Pelosi have to force the Dems to vote to end the war? Why would she need to force them, if it is what they want and the mandate they were elected for? Because this isn`t the Supreme Soviet or State Duma?lol We all know that it`s b/c of the near 50/50 split in congress and Bush not letting down in his determination in keeping us there,that`s doing this. Hey lucky,I`ve acknowledged that you,the neo-cons and Bush have prevailed. I`ve already said ya`ll have been successful in thwarting the will of the people.Congratulations,our boys will suffer for longer now.Misery accomplished. What really gets me,is you playing both sides of this. On one side, you`re with Bush and this reckless ,counter-productive war.You want it to go on and on,w/out end ,whatever. And on the other,you`re teasing and ridiculing democrats for failing to stop you.When in fact,you`re glad about that,as perverse as that is. Have a little class lucky.When you win a fight that means our GIs continue to fight and die for nothing,don`t dance on the graves.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/13/2008 12:27:00 AM)
I think the Dems rode in on a wave to do two things: stop the wars and impeach Bush/Cheney. They did neither and absolutely zero has changed. In the meanwhile they are doing shit like co-signing the wiretapping immunity for the next X years. All Politics as usual, with a near inability on the part of the electorate to distinguish one party from the other. [8\|]

luckydog1 -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/13/2008 1:04:00 AM)
A lecture on class from you means little, but lets forget that detour, and get back to the topic. My opinion on this really doesn't mean much of anything. But the Political Editor of Rolling Stone' opinion means a huge amount.

Owner59 -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/17/2008 10:37:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro I think the Dems rode in on a wave to do two things: stop the wars and impeach Bush/Cheney. They did neither and absolutely zero has changed. In the meanwhile they are doing shit like co-signing the wiretapping immunity for the next X years. All Politics as usual, with a near inability on the part of the electorate to distinguish one party from the other. [8\|] stop the wars and impeach Bush/Cheney. wrong, http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/19/washington/19cong.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1203316304-HspsHOstOA5MCwUqX0HMeA http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/01/democrats-cant-end-the-Iraq-war.html Using Senate filibusters and once relying on the President's veto pen, Republicans were able to block Democratic efforts to change course in Iraq. and wrong.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VRRtTA41hg They didn`t get a magic wand, Sugar.Don`t flame them for trying.

Alumbrado -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/18/2008 9:54:33 AM)
So it would actually take a magic wand for the Democrats to do anything progressive? Hmmmm... how convenient.[8\|] They got a 'mandate from the people', just like when Clinton was elected, along with a Congressional majority of Democrats. And what did the 'people' get that time? Hmmmmm...more wars, 'Dont' Ask, Don't Tell', and business as usual. This 'We good guys are so weak and inept, we have to do what the evil geniuses on other side want' from the majority party (and the simple minded notion that there are actually two diametrically opposed parties, in the face of non-stop flip flops and convenient switching of party affiliations by career politicians like that great Democrat Ronald Reagan), is so ignorant that only zealots blinded by partisanship could fall for it.

Owner59 -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/18/2008 10:15:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado So it would actually take a magic wand for the Democrats to do anything progressive? Hmmmm... how convenient.[8\|] They got a 'mandate from the people', just like when Clinton was elected, along with a Congressional majority of Democrats. And what did the 'people' get that time? Hmmmmm...more wars, 'Dont' Ask, Don't Tell', and business as usual. This 'We good guys are so weak and inept, we have to do what the evil geniuses on other side want' from the majority party (and the simple minded notion that there are actually two diametrically opposed parties, in the face of non-stop flip flops and convenient switching of party affiliations by career politicians like that great Democrat Ronald Reagan), is so ignorant that only zealots blinded by partisanship could fall for it. Is there a point in there?lol With your logic,you`d chastise and criticize a swimming pool life guard for failing to save a life,even if he tried.

luckydog1 -> RE: Matt Taibbi: How the Dems screwed the peace movement (2/18/2008 10:19:31 AM)
Alumbrado, but Clintons mandate was 38% of the voting population---18% of the general---and less than 1 in 5 isns't much of a mandate. owner has been adamant that Pelosi and Reid would have to force the dems to go along, likening it to Tom Delay. The fact is the Dem majority barley beat the traditional boost that the non presidential party gets in non presidential years (basically the minority base gets more fired up and a higher turnout). There was no mandate to end the war. The vast majority of people do not like the war, and current world situation. But very few people take the hard left peace movement, seriously. If Pelosi tried to force a hard stop to the war, a bloc of Conservative Dems would bolt and she would be the minority leader the next day. And she knows it. But they desperatly need that left wing vote to have a chance in 08, quite a quandry. Come election time, its not a matter of how many people hate Bush. Its a matter of how many people vote Democrat.

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