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Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 8:43:24 AM   
LadyHathor


Posts: 775
Joined: 1/2/2008
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quote:

One stereotype about malesubs is that we are inherently and naturally "service oriented." Why must it be presumed we like (or to get more preposterous, derive sexual kink from) activities like mopping the floor, vacuuming, and running errands. Everyone else out there in the world pretty much doesn't like this stuff, but somehow we're suppose to do love it. If maledoms did think we actually loved this stuff, I couldn't blame them too much for seeing us as a bit weird, foolish, and nerdy.


This is a quote from cloudboy from another post--and this is not a bashing of it or him, it is an interesting thought in and of itself and I was not sure where to put this--so here goes ( I adore cloudboy by the way--he is sooo non mainstream, lol)---
 
So I think there is this stereotype WITH many male subs as well that its all about cleaning and oral--sure I need a male wife, but if it was all about cleaning, I'd hire Juan back from Merry Maids (I swear--) and if it was all about oral--well pffftt.
 
Have we not conveyed our needs or how our boys fulfill our lives better than this?


< Message edited by LadyHathor -- 2/11/2008 8:46:09 AM >

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 8:49:43 AM   
Shawn1066


Posts: 987
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline 		I like cleaning.  It's not sexual.  I just like having the responsibility to take care of my Owner's place.  Oral is just another way to please my Owner.  Of course, there are hundreds of more ways sexual and non-sexual that I do more often.

So yeah, I agee that the stereotypes that you presented are used often, and even untrue in my case when I actually partake in them.

Other stereotypes?  Male submissives don't have back bones  We're just in it for the sex.  We all love crossdressing(I do, but JESUS CHRIST, we all don't so I don't know why people assume that).  We're just in it for the sex.  We love being treated like crap.  We're just in it for the sex.

I think I hit all of the ones I hate.

DV's Fox 

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 8:50:21 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		I had one sub that truly DID get an erotic thrill from cleaning.  To add to it I would allow him to partially masturbate during the chores.  For instance, while cleaning the refrigerator using a pan with warm soapy water, he was allowed to soak his member in the water once every five minutes and then stroke himself 10 times.  Every 10 minutes the water was to be changed to as hot as he could take it, then he was to go back to cleaning.  He loved it.

There are other subs who are very clear that they want to perform service only - no sexual contact at all.  Each person has their own personality and their own wants and needs.

Including sexual acts too quickly can end up making the Domme feel taken advantage of.  She may choose to have you do more service oriented work until She is very comfortable with you.  It is the curse of women that men are often sexually attracted for one "date" only, and NO ONE likes to feel taken advantage of.  If all a sub is out for is sex with a few kinks but no service then he should look to the profession that takes care of this rather than expecting it from a Mistress.

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 8:59:40 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		I think this stereotype is one of the sins on the Internet and I am usually pro Internet on things.

I think both female dominants and males submissives that are serious often are defensive and frustrated about all the pro dommes and sex only horny males that this particular dynamic when discussed in this life that often people over compensate. They often fail to project the romantic and fun parts of the relationship way too often to where people get a very false impression.

I must admit to writing back many male submissives who have written me for advice for me to encourage them to seek out their local community to get a better picture of what femdom is all about because what is often projected on the Internet is not all that attractive.


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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 9:20:47 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I'm really not sure where I read this - it was years ago (maybe Cynthia Payne?)

It was something along the lines of "Him scrubbing the floor alone is just scrubbing the floor to him. Scrubbing the floor whilst I watch TV in the next room is a little more, but still just scrubbing the floor to him. But scrubbing the floor whilst I stand over him is far more to him than scrubbing the floor"

Its this which to me at least, describes and denotes not only the male submissive but the whole realm of bdsm. Its not to do with whips and chains, high heeled boots and collars, grovelling slaves and their vicious owners - these are just the ritual accoutrements of the psychosexual interaction of sexual intercourse. Yet they become the images of what its all about and this then leads to misunderstandings both within and outside the bdsm world in general.

Its not the scrubbing of the floor which the submissive male likes. Its the scrubbing of the floor because he's doing it for her and he wishes to be pleasing to her. He more than likely would not enjoy scrubbing the floor of his own volition and neither would he undertake it to please anyone else - it is her that is his objective. Of course, this is not to say that his actions are conciously directed towards achieving sexual intercourse with her, but her constant presence (actual or in his mind) to the exclusion of all others in making his actions enjoyable as an end in themselves is important.

E

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 9:23:15 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Taking your question to a literal one, I'm going to say that We have.  The difference is that We convey Our needs over time.  The stereotype is what comes from a quick assessment.  The two examples that you used, are two of the things We tend to mention more than some others.

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 9:36:25 AM   
Wheldrake


Posts: 477
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I'm really not sure where I read this - it was years ago (maybe Cynthia Payne?)

It was something along the lines of "Him scrubbing the floor alone is just scrubbing the floor to him. Scrubbing the floor whilst I watch TV in the next room is a little more, but still just scrubbing the floor to him. But scrubbing the floor whilst I stand over him is far more to him than scrubbing the floor"



That about sums it up for me, too - although I'd add that scrubbing the floor just because she told me to carries a lot of significance in itself. She doesn't need to be standing over me, watching TV in the next room, or even on the same continent. The real point is the fact of my obedience.

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 9:51:02 AM   
aidan


Posts: 904
Joined: 5/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
"Him scrubbing the floor alone is just scrubbing the floor to him. Scrubbing the floor whilst I watch TV in the next room is a little more, but still just scrubbing the floor to him. But scrubbing the floor whilst I stand over him is far more to him than scrubbing the floor"
...  
Its not the scrubbing of the floor which the submissive male likes. Its the scrubbing of the floor because he's doing it for her and he wishes to be pleasing to her. He more than likely would not enjoy scrubbing the floor of his own volition and neither would he undertake it to please anyone else - it is her that is his objective. Of course, this is not to say that his actions are conciously directed towards achieving sexual intercourse with her, but her constant presence (actual or in his mind) to the exclusion of all others in making his actions enjoyable as an end in themselves is important.

E

Nailed it, spot on, give that woman the Fair-Day Goose.

This is how I can explain the meticulous effort I will put into cleaning a friend's home, while my living space looks like there was recently some kind of paramilitary conflict within it.

Or why some random person punching me in the face would send me into a rage, but being kicked in the stomach by a woman I love will make my heart twitterpate.

Context, as always, is the key.


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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 10:18:28 AM   
herpet1313


Posts: 68
Joined: 9/18/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, lots of stereotypes out there. i guess it stems from from the fact that, as i mentioned a few weeks ago, in response to another topic, that we are all different and there is no one right way to experience a Femdom relationship.
 i don't love housecleaning, but i do it all,  to please my wife and Mistress. That's what Femdom is to me,  putting the wife's pleasure above my own. To me, such drudgery and menial tasks like housework and laundry are beneath a woman of her stature. It's that simple.
  My least favorite stereotype is that all submissives are into whips, pain and serious bondage. Every munch we've attended, and the flea markets they hold, seem geared to this as a fact. My wife approaches Femdom using loving female authority, along the lines of Elise Sutton. There may be the occasional need for a well deserved paddling, and SHE enjoys some mild bondage once in a while, but is by no means the core of our 24/7 relationship.
 

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 10:46:17 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

Have we not conveyed our needs or how our boys fulfill our lives better than this?



Surely a Dominas requirements differ from person to person. Many profile mention cleaning, a few mention oral, so maybe some submissives latch onto this.

my own thoughts are it should all be about pleasing, whatever shape or form that comes in.

As for cleaning and oral, either way im on my knees...

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 10:46:31 AM   
rubberpet


Posts: 1743
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: The Land of Voodoo
Status: offline 		I am so "the anti-subby"!  Some dance to the beat of a different drum, I have my own parade.  The people out there who have this stereotypical view of a male submissive are of no concern to me.  I know who and what I am and it was good enough for Mistress to take ownership of me.  I'm a playful and mischievious smartass.  I am, however, extremely well trained and I'm constantly learning new ways to best serve Mistress. 

I like the examples shawn1066 gave.  I'm not into crossdressing, I do have a backbone and the balls to stand up to anyone, and it's not just about sex.  For Pete's sake, I LOVE sex...what guy doesn't?  Sex with Mistress is an expression of love, even if it's reduced to just a mere fuck.  If Mistress wants to sit on my face and have me pleasure Her that way until my tongue goes completely numb, then I'm all for it.  If She wants me to bathe Her boots with that same numb tongue, then I'll happily lick away!  If She wants me to cook dinner or run to the store to pick Her up some tampons, I'll do it.  Why?  It's all for Her, that's why.  I do what I can to please Her and make Her happy.  I want to take care of Her.  Being owned by Her and being Her property is what fuels my submissive desires. 

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Rubberpet - The Resident Anti-Subby and mysterious shadowy figure known as Voodoo, proud hitman and wiseguy for the Subby Mafia.


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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 11:56:36 AM   
WalterRego


Posts: 276
Joined: 12/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

 
Have we not conveyed our needs or how our boys fulfill our lives better than this?



Perhaps it's equally that male subs have not conveyed all that well what attracts us and fulfills us in performing such activities. As with another poster, I do not "enjoy" cleaning or errands or a myriad of other activities for myself that I gladly do for a Dominant. And my own digs show that quite clearly (well, they would except that I have a cleaning "lady" who comes in once a week! LOL).

Service is a combination of many pleasures some aspects of which attract some of us more than others. For some it's showing devotion, pleasing. For some it's humiliation or force. For me sometimes it's a form of meditation: just being lost in the minutiae of an activity which sets it apart from other time, allows my mind to wonder and has at it's apex, the woman that I am doing it for .

But the reason we (and here I mean both sides of the slash) probably don't convey ourselves all that well about it is that we know that when we are talking about it, we are essentially talking to the other side of the slash. Presumably She or he knows what is inside. Or at least knows one of the three or four major reasons why such service is offered. And figuring out which one of those reasons is the primary one (if She really wants or needs to know) is pretty easy after a short conversation.  

Same obviously goes for oral. Sure it can be a submissive act, or even a humiliating act if done that way. Or an act which means the one who performs it is denied pleasure himself. For me, i just love oral sex. I love everything about it. Loved it before I was actively into BDSM. But one thing it is NOT for me is passive. When I am performing oral sex, I always feel as though I am the one in charge: giving her pleasure, leading her, orchestrating her orgasm. I may be down on my knees but I ain't passive. And I'm having one damn good time.

Of course, it doesn't hurt if before, during or afterwards...... < fill in the blank: a, b, c, d or... e: all of the above>

< Message edited by WalterRego -- 2/11/2008 11:59:51 AM >

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A person should not choose the form in which he wishes to perform the service, but he should perform it in any manner the opportunity affords. He should be like a vessel into which anything may be poured - wine, milk, or water.
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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 12:05:42 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		What I require from my sub maybe totally different then what the next Domme's requires from her's. The truth is we are each individuals, as are our subs, therefore our needs/requirements are going to be different. I have mine do painting around my house because that is what he is good at, he cleans my truck, he loves to cook and he will do housework with a smile if I tell him too. It boils down to that he wants to please me.

I think these stereotypes boil down to this, its fabricated ammunition designed to make that which is different from the mainstream appear undesirable in an effort to ostracize them. Personally I find most male subs do not resemble the stereotypes at all, my sub is a case in point. Besides I can't think of anything sexier than a man who strives his hardest to please me.

~Lashra 

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 1:12:54 PM   
MistressFaye1


Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline 		Everyone has stated some great and valid points!  I'd just like to add the importance of the mindset of the Mistress and the submissive and how well they know each others needs and just as important---the things that make each other happy. 

I have to speak from my experience here.  I travel a lot because of the work that I do and most of the time I'm away more than home.  I do not have a life in relationship at this point but I commented once on how nice it would be to come home after a long drive and have someone there waiting to pamper me after the trip, especially when I drive more than 5 hours to get back after putting in a 6 hour work day. 

I didn't say it as a subtle way to drop a hint because at this point with "bart" I didn't expect anything.  Much to my surprise he called me and asked me how far out I was to getting home.  I told him and once I got home, there he was in his vehicle waiting for me. No only that, he did apartment cleaning the following morning without me asking him to.  Funny thing about that was... nothing really needed to be done because I hadn't been there.  He did it because he wanted to make me happy, he wanted to please me and show that he did want to make things easier. (At this stage I do not want him to be there each time I come home because I am not at a point of owning and to allow that to me may be building false hope for him, we're working on the things that keep him in hot water with me).

The point I'm making here is this---in a D/s relationship it's give and take as with any.  When I was married my husband did most of the cleaning because he liked it and I didn't.  I jokingly say, "I am NOT Suzy Homemaker." 

As someone said each person has their own preferances, "service oriented in re maid service is not one of my stated requirements (for lack of a better word) but if he is so inclined to do so... I'm loving it and him for doing so.

I really am dismayed at how things are becoming more and more as it relates to BDSM.  I read an interesting comment on another post and someone said, "it seems as if there are two ways of doing things, old school and contemporary domination. Old school is how things were before the computer age and now there is a new wave of domination that is not lifestyle per se."  The person felt eventually this fad will fade and people that are truly in the lifestyle will continue to be so.

I spent some time with a vanilla man last week that knows about me.  He was disappointed because he didn't didn't see any "dominate stuff" from me.  I asked him what he was expecting to see and his response was, "I was waiting for you to restrain me, spank me, and I thought you were going to wear some, "Mistress" stuff.  Where's your whip?"

See... misconceptions!  As always, I tried to talk to him and tell him that he has it all wrong.  After hearing what I had to say he said it WAS ALL about sex and any submissive that wasn't in it for the sex had some mental problems.  Once that was said I showed him to the door and called it a night.  He wanted to know why he had to leave and it I was I pissed off enough to "dominate" him.  I told him one rule is:  Never when angry.  I told him he wouldn't like me if I were to do just that and that I would probably get arrested for assualt if I did what I felt like doing.  He thought I was joking!  When he saw that I wasn't he left.

Faye


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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 1:59:15 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
YES, but we all know that DV is a SLAVE DRIVER.

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 2:16:11 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		As you know, the problem with stereotypes is that they fail to account for individuality --- and then they can make a person feel badly for just being themselves. (As if there is something wrong with that.)

Imagine a malesub expressing disappointment to you b/c you don't wear leather, like to use a strap-on, or just have normal days like Betty Jane down the street.

I would somewhat agree with LadyEllen's description of things (the doing it for her element) but at some point BDSM really is not going to explain the LT connection between two people --- and the standard deviation between BDSMers and the rest of the world is not going to be that great in LT relationships. (IMO)

I recall the story of a femsub friend of mine. Her DOM wanted her to run an errand to the department of motor vehicles for him. It was going to be a 3 hr task and a long drive. She did it. She did him a favor. She did not derive any kind of ecstatic pleasure from it. She was just being kind and generous with her time. She would be incredulous at the characterization that she was lucky, privileged, or in "subspace" to be executing the task.

The funny part was how the DOM went off to scene with his new femsub friend while she was doing the grunt work. That didn't go over too well.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/11/2008 2:18:31 PM >

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 2:22:21 PM   
Aimtoplease101


Posts: 319
Joined: 2/8/2006
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline 		It isn't [always] the particular act itself that is inherently erotic-- it's the power exchange element.  Doing something not because you enjoy it, but because it is pleasing, amusing, satisfying, etc., to your Domme, is an expression of submission.  And that can be exciting.

Regards, ATP

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 2:54:06 PM   
newlychaste


Posts: 70
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

Including sexual acts too quickly can end up making the Domme feel taken advantage of.  She may choose to have you do more service oriented work until She is very comfortable with you.  It is the curse of women that men are often sexually attracted for one "date" only, and NO ONE likes to feel taken advantage of.  If all a sub is out for is sex with a few kinks but no service then he should look to the profession that takes care of this rather than expecting it from a Mistress.


Let's see if this lead balloon floats:
Including sexual acts too quickly can make the submissive feel taken-advantage-of, also. Sure, we may crave that feeling--I know I do--but what's the rush? It goes back to a statement of expectations, and both (or all) parties living up to them. Just because I'm interested in this or that doesn't mean I'm ready to explore it with a stranger. Don't get me wrong. If things move along naturally, both parties have the liberty to amend the limits and expectations of those first few meetings (assuming, of course, that there's no agreement made beforehand).

But all things considered, I think that it's just as important for submissives not to pidgeonhole Dom/mes as it is for Dom/mes not to pidgeonhole submissives. There are sure to be those that would disagree with me, either because "all [gender] belong under the boot of [gender]kind"--a quaint thought--or because the wants and needs of the Dom/me come first. There are exceptions to every rule--no exceptions. Whether we like to admit it to ourselves or not, even in those autocratic relationships where the dominant figure assumes total control, there are still needs implicit on the part of the submissive.

I don't think it's unreasonable for me to expect my assets to remain mine in the context of a relationship (I'm looking at you, "financial domme$"). Also, I see no reason for my partner not to be well-educated and capable of self-sufficience--"bottoming from the top," I'll call it. Only a small margin of United States citizens are capable of supporting another person comfortably, let alone lavishly, and I certainly am not among them; mortgage payments constitute a large percentage of what used to be a disposable income, and I expect my future owner to appreciate that.

Funny-sounding, right?
Since when are submissives allowed to have expectations of their dominant partners?  Yet another stereotype there, I think..

---
"The dude abides."

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 3:32:26 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I'm a SLAVE DRIVER?
Well, sometimes, but only becasue Fox doesnt know his way around as well as I do and we dont want to lose time getting lost.

I have never known anyone who gets any sort of sexual high from cleaning. What I do notice is that stereotpyes abound on both sides, and I think a lot of it comes from Fantasy Fictions. In the perfect fantasy, which is all that a lot of the newbies who have no reatime experience have access to sometimes, the perfect sub loves to clean, tey love to do chores and live for nothing more than their Owner's happiness. If that happiness comes from nothing more than being neatly mopped and dusted, then that is al the sub is there to do. There are also a good deal of "I am worthless" stereotypes, where male subs dont think we want a man who is worth anything as a man. Well, If someone think shtey are worthless to me, I will likely agree. And on both sides of the coin there are those who believe that a slave should be treated as a lower class person than a submissive...

No matter where it comes from or who believes it.. a stereotype is going to be inherently wrong about someone somewhere.  When you say ALL X is Y, they you are going to be wrong if just one X dares to be different.

DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

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If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

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RE: Male submissive stereotypes - 2/11/2008 3:48:38 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		Wow.  I feel so undommely--I haven't bothered to familiarize myself with any male submissive stereotypes.  I have all I can do to keep up with the ones for vanilla or dominant men, especially since so few of those stereotypes have any resemblance to the men of my acquaintance.

I guess the only thing that bothers me about any of these stereotypes, for men or women, is that some may feel that people have to live up to them.  Me, I don't expect anyone to automatically enjoy cleaning--I freaking hate it myself--but on the other hand, if they hate it and don't want to do it, I'm also not going to stand looming over them in crazy high heels to get it freaking done, either.

Sexual energy is still energy, quite frankly.  I find less exhausting and infinitely less stupid to simply mop the floor myself than to stand there trying to radiate sexual dominance while someone else does it because I'm "domming" him.  Don't get me wrong, a man mopping the floor for me IS sexy, but it isn't "Ooo I'm making you DO something" sexy; it's "he's taking care of me" sexy.

If there are guys who get an erection from doing dishes--ok, I guess.  Maybe they think of it as "women's work" and consider it humiliating/unmannifying to have to do it?  I have no idea.  To me it's just a job that needs to be done. 

I've never met anyone who gets aroused from chores, but I have met men who enjoyed doing a chore for various reasons.  Sometimes they found it calming and meditative, in the chop-wood-carry-water sense.  Sometimes they just enjoyed setting something in order, in the same way that some people like to fix a broken object or sew up a ripped sleeve.  And sometimes they just liked doing something so that someone else wouldn't have to do it.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

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