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Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 12:09:25 AM

ProlificNeeds

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I've seen the expression many times, "Your sub/dom is not a mind reader, communicate!" Often it is assumed mind reading would sometimes be a blessing of a super power to righting wrongs or at least preventing miscommunication. Nice to think about, but entirely unrealistic.
What if you were able to read someone that well though? What if your ability to interpret and predict someone's thoughts and feelings and wants were almost dead accurate every time? Where would be the fun of discovery and exploration, the mental stimulation of intellectual discourse? Would you consider a person transparent if you were simply very accurate at reading and anticipating them, or would it only give you a sense of power over them?

Sometimes I am very good at reading people, sometimes I'm not, it depends on how well I can understand and empathize with a person. Some people I encounter though, are at times disconcerted by how well I peg them. I recently wrote a piece of fiction for someone, that included them as a character. I really hardly know the person, and have only coresponded with them via email for roughly two weeks. Yet their reply to the piece of fiction I wrote for them, was that I had pegged them down so accurately in behavior and dialogue, that the person in question said they felt a bit odd talking to me afterward. It was my intent to be as accurate as possible, but certainly not to the point to raise a feeling of weirdness. It started me thinking though.

How would you feel if someone was able to read you very easily? Even the bits you didn't want them to read in you? Surely for a top reading a sub, it can lead to a bit of a power trip for them, but what about a sub reading their top with a great deal of accuracy, would it make the top feel a bit out of sorts? Sure it would be nice to have your sub know exactly what you want when you want it, but wouldn't that ruin any time you wanted to surprise your sub or throw them for a loop or head game in play? Would you feel transparent and insecure if your bottom was able to read you easily, but you were unable to read them?

Vice versa to subs, would you find it intimidating to be an open book to your top, would you worry about seeming basic or simplestic if your top was never surprised by you?

Late night post so if it's a bit unclear I apologize, your thoughts are appreciated!

Post #: 1

RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 1:20:22 AM

MistressOfGa

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My pup knows me like the back of his hand. We can almost finish each others sentences. Do I find that disconcerting? Not at all. I sometimes find it a blessing, since I have a bit of a problem finding the words I am looking for, he helps lol

I know him, like I know the back of my own hand. I know every facial expression, every change in his voice and every body gesture. I know what he is going to say before he says it and yes, it does freak him out a bit, but he loves me, no matter how strange I am <g> Does it stop me from being able to play a mind-fuck on him? No. I can be just as secret as I need to be, when I need to be. He just doesn't know it <s>

I think we are perfect for each other. May not be perfect for other people, but for each other, oh yes.

MoGa

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 1:26:21 AM

MasterFireMaam

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From: Charleston, WV
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds
How would you feel if someone was able to read you very easily?

It depends on how they used it. If their intent was postive and their manner gentle, it could be a very good thing. I'd be thinking, "FINALLY, someone GETS it!" a lot.

But, it can be used for egoic purposes and to hurt, too. If someone understands how I feel about my body, for example, and uses it against me, that, in my eyes, is worse than just being mean; it's deliberate cruelty.

It reminds me of a fortune cookie picture I recently found. It said, "Management is doing it right; Leadership is doing the right thing." So, having the ability isn't what it's really about...it's knowing what to do with it.

Master Fire

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 2:28:58 AM

MistressVnus

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quote:

How would you feel if someone was able to read you very easily? Even the bits you didn't want them to read in you? Surely for a top reading a sub, it can lead to a bit of a power trip for them, but what about a sub reading their top with a great deal of accuracy, would it make the top feel a bit out of sorts?
quote:

I wish I could find one so astute with the right intentions. It would tell me that they have paid attention. It would tell me they have taken the time and interest to get to know me. Even the parts I didn't want them to see. I think the clincher here is trust and what "intent" they would have if they COULD read me very easily. Would they try to apply this sense of me to a power struggle? Or, would they use it to aniticipate and fulfill my needs and tread softly in the areas that might be touchy for me. In essence: I think it is more about what they would do with being able to read me as to whether it would make me feel uncomfortable or not.

quote:

Sure it would be nice to have your sub know exactly what you want when you want it, but wouldn't that ruin any time you wanted to surprise your sub or throw them for a loop or head game in play?

I don't think it would be impossible to surprise someone even if they are good at reading you. One just might have to be a bit more crafty. And isn't a head game all about "switching up?" The more they think they know me the easier it might be to mess with their head. The ol' switcheroo, and all that.

quote:

Would you feel transparent and insecure if your bottom was able to read you easily, but you were unable to read them?

If I could not read my sub/bottom/slave, I have no business Dominating them. The chemistry is off. The connection is not there. It would not make me insecure. It would cause me concern about Dominating them with the proper care. It would cause me to defer, for obvious reasons. Mainly, the ones I just stated. If their energy is so closed off from me that I can't read them, then there is no need to go any further. It would be unwise and most likely a lose-lose situation for us both.

Great thread, btw.

< Message edited by MistressVnus -- 2/9/2008 2:31:30 AM >

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 2:32:31 AM

ProlificNeeds

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds
How would you feel if someone was able to read you very easily?

It depends on how they used it. If their intent was postive and their manner gentle, it could be a very good thing. I'd be thinking, "FINALLY, someone GETS it!" a lot.

But, it can be used for egoic purposes and to hurt, too. If someone understands how I feel about my body, for example, and uses it against me, that, in my eyes, is worse than just being mean; it's deliberate cruelty.

It reminds me of a fortune cookie picture I recently found. It said, "Management is doing it right; Leadership is doing the right thing." So, having the ability isn't what it's really about...it's knowing what to do with it.

Master Fire

Ahh that was the essence of what I couldn't put my finger on. But what if you don't know if the person in question will use it for good or ill? I guess that that uncertainty would likely sit more at the beginning of getting to know someone when trust has yet to be really established.
I think that uncertainty would likely create the unease at being easily read. Perhaps too if someone's intentions weren't good, then they might fear being read as well?

MistressVnus you hit it too, trust and intent! Interesting you would not be interested in topping someone you could not read well. I've had my cat be more intuitive than some of the dom's I've given a fair chance to.

< Message edited by ProlificNeeds -- 2/9/2008 2:35:21 AM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 2:53:54 AM

Justme696

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My ex sub an me.often typed the same things at the same time. Or had the same thoughts at the same time.
But does saying the same...mean the same? Mostly it did..but sometimes not....
I wouldn't always trust on it.....but It sure feels very nice..if you are so similar.

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 3:34:42 AM

littlebitxxx

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It can be used for ill or good depending on the people involved. Having someone know you that well that they can anticipate your wants desires and needs and attend to them without you having to always say something can be a blessing. Having someone so in your mind that they know just how to say stuff, just how to phrase stuff, as to get your complete undivided attention and best response can be a boon to communication. Having someone so in your heart that they see situations the same way and would command their ethics in the same way can be quite a boost for compatibility on many scores. It's not only Doms that need to be able to "get into" their subs and read them well. Ask my man.

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 3:36:59 AM

MmeGigs

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I'm pretty easy to read. I don't have a poker face, and I think it's getting worse as I'm getting older. Actually, I know it is. I've generally gotten a lot more blunt and have less patience with drama and dithering, and I guess it shows on my face. There are times when it would probably be better for me to be a bit less obvious, but for the most part it's working for me. I think that the whole dating and getting social thing had something to do with me becoming more obvious, too. Sending mixed or misleading signals can invite attention from folks you'd rather keep at arms length.

My sub-hubby can read me easily even when I'm not being obvious, and it's a wonderful thing. He's attentive when I need him to be and leaves me alone when I need him to. When I'm getting wound up about one thing or another, he knows when to sit back and let me get it out of my system and when to engage. He knows me well enough that he knows how I'm going to respond to things about 99% of the time, which means that he can often take care of responding for me and I don't have to be bothered. I can read him pretty well, too. We can still surprise each other, but since we know each other so well they're always pleasant surprises.

I don't think I could get involved with someone if I was unable to read them. Play would be tough. I wouldn't know if I was near an edge or boring them silly. Communication would be tough. But I don't think that you could get through the getting-to-know-you process without figuring out how to read someone at least to some degree.

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 5:24:34 AM

Rushemery

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I feel it depends on their motives, had 1 who hated it and one who didnt and would smile when I knew what she wanted

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Post #: 9

RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 6:37:30 AM

ExSteelAgain

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From: Georgia
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It is not a question of what you WOULD do with it, but what you ACTUALLY do with it because it does happen as you get to know someone intimately. As mentioned by Justme, you start to type the same things online. In person reactions, facial expressions and subtle nuance all tell us much about how the other feels about something that would not be obvious to an outsider. The best mirror for those in such relationships is each other.

Intimate people connect on intellectual, emotional, psychological, chemical and unknown ways that rival the actual supernatural power to mind read. We all have to be careful with such power.

There is another thread concerning setting a sub up for failure that comes to mind here. Having the intimate knowledge some of us have of our slaves, we could easily set them up for failure by using what we know about them. I could set up an elaborate ruse that uses personal information, psychological make-up, desires and artificially constructed moods that make her feel vulnerable and insecure. I choose not to create such contrived episodes because it is really a way of saying I no longer want to be in the relationship.

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 9:08:53 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProlificNeeds
What if you were able to read someone that well though? What if your ability to interpret and predict someone's thoughts and feelings and wants were almost dead accurate every time? Where would be the fun of discovery and exploration, the mental stimulation of intellectual discourse? Would you consider a person transparent if you were simply very accurate at reading and anticipating them, or would it only give you a sense of power over them?

Speaking as someone with extremely good perception, intuition and prediction, I can say that even if these were completelt accurate all the time, there's still a lot of fun- in how they CHANGE.

And a lot of frustration- just KNOWING what someone is actually thinking doesn't make you happy. How many times have I wanted to bang my head against a wall when I see someone else leaping off that cliff again?

It doesn't give me a sense of power OVER them, it simply makes me more effective in helping them and being open to them in certain ways. While it takes away some of the shields they are used to, I'm ethical enough not to use that to any real advantage.

quote:

How would you feel if someone was able to read you very easily? Even the bits you didn't want them to read in you? Surely for a top reading a sub, it can lead to a bit of a power trip for them, but what about a sub reading their top with a great deal of accuracy, would it make the top feel a bit out of sorts?

Surprised, thrilled, a bit wary.

As I often say, I think my ex ordered me to learn to top JUST so I'd be unable to pull the crap on him that I used to in the past.

quote:

Sure it would be nice to have your sub know exactly what you want when you want it, but wouldn't that ruin any time you wanted to surprise your sub or throw them for a loop or head game in play?

If they really are that psychic, yeah. Small price to pay really.

quote:

Would you feel transparent and insecure if your bottom was able to read you easily, but you were unable to read them?

Only if you were insecure in your authority.

quote:

Vice versa to subs, would you find it intimidating to be an open book to your top, would you worry about seeming basic or simplestic if your top was never surprised by you?

Some do, most of them just are relieved they don't have to actually take responsiblity or ownership anymore.

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 9:43:07 AM

ownedgirlie

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I am extremely transparent to him. He likes fun surprises, not surprises such as when I react differently than how he predicted, given his knowledge of me. He uses his knowledge of me TO surprise me. Knowing me through and through doesn't mean I can't be surprised or thrown for a loop. It means he has fun exercising his creativity to keep coming up with new ways to blow my mind, lol.

He loves my knowledge of him, as well. He can relax knowing after a long day I know precisely what he wants and when, and he doesn't need to speak a word to get it. Can I still surprise him? Hell yes. As I continue to grow in my own right, as well as in my knowledge of him, he enjoyes watching the development. For example, just last week he was wailing away on my backside with his slapper, while I was casually eating trail mix, looking back and asking, "How's it going back there...having fun?!" (The slapper was always considered the cruel toy; now he calls it my aftercare, lol)

The more we know each other, the more FUN we have together. His knowledge of me brings him to understand what he can teach me next - it's unending. And my knowledge of him brings me the abiility of knowing how to relax him, make him laugh, make him feel good, or stay out of his way when he's busy. The better we know each other, the more useful I can be to him. The better we know each other, the better the opportunities to happily surprise each other. The better we know each other, the better it gets.

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 2:03:17 PM

Taintedblood

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i was once an open book for someone and it was not that great it near on destroyed me after and i closed myself off to everyonre and built up a brick wall around me. i have just started opening up to some people. i think i would hate to be a truely open book.

However, i am quite good at reading people and they can just be an open book to me and i dont think it bothers me if i can read someone well or not.

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 2:18:24 PM

sweetwenchie

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i already know i am an open book, everything i am thinking and feeling is expressed in my eyes and my body language. No matter how much i try to fight that, in the end, i will lose. It often leaves me feeling quite vulnerable and exposed, not to mention intimidated. Being an open book can be freeing when being read by someone i trust, otherwise i know all too well it can be turned and used against me to my detriment.

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 2:45:57 PM

kallisto

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetwenchie

i already know i am an open book, everything i am thinking and feeling is expressed in my eyes and my body language. No matter how much i try to fight that, in the end, i will lose. It often leaves me feeling quite vulnerable and exposed, not to mention intimidated. Being an open book can be freeing when being read by someone i trust, otherwise i know all too well it can be turned and used against me to my detriment.

That is me in a nutshell.

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 3:06:33 PM

DesFIP

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Being able to and doing it are different. I have a friend who does poker tournaments. He does real well but isn't world quality. However he enjoys himself just as much playing with his um using chips. I've known some top restaurateurs and chefs, they're just as happy spending their off time with friends who barbecue steak and burgers and buy potato salad from the deli.

Mind games aren't real anyway. If you really believed he was going to cut off your nipples and leave you to bleed to death, you wouldn't be with him to begin with. It's your own mind that you fool.

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 3:16:06 PM

breatheasone

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kallisto

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetwenchie

i already know i am an open book, everything i am thinking and feeling is expressed in my eyes and my body language. No matter how much i try to fight that, in the end, i will lose. It often leaves me feeling quite vulnerable and exposed, not to mention intimidated. Being an open book can be freeing when being read by someone i trust, otherwise i know all too well it can be turned and used against me to my detriment.

That is me in a nutshell.

Me Three....

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 5:01:42 PM

TracyTaken

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quote:

Vice versa to subs, would you find it intimidating to be an open book to your top, would you worry about seeming basic or simplestic if your top was never surprised by you?

The thing about really knowing someone in depth, and having in-depth knowledge of his/her day-to-day life (to the point that some conversations consist only of partial sentences which each finishes for the other), is that's it becomes real easy to throw the other a curve ball (and I'm NOT talking about doing something destructive).

But, IME, the better I know a person, the more complex they seem.

< Message edited by TracyTaken -- 2/9/2008 5:03:39 PM >

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/9/2008 6:26:27 PM

CMastersen

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"Would you consider a person transparent if you were simply very accurate at reading and anticipating them..."
If someone was truely transparent you would know nothing about them!
Yes - I know: It is an idiom!
But I wonder why the idom doesn't at least use the somewhat more acurate term of translucent?
Sorry - I had to do that!

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RE: Mind reading, or transparency? - 2/10/2008 1:52:30 PM

chamberqueen

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From: Kalamazoo, MI
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As a Mistress I watch for patterns and read subtleties, and I have many of my subs truly believing that I can read their minds. It is a combination of logic and empathy, and truly caring about them.

For my switch side, my Daddy reads things in me that I never realize I am showing. This is extemely unusual for me because I am a very closed person. It made me much more attracted to him, and he gets a kick out of the fact that I can read him back. However, I would be very thrown if a sub could read me that well. I think it is definitely preferable for the Dom/me, and I think that is often the case.

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Post #: 20

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