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RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 1:31:10 PM   
LunaticDesign


Posts: 42
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline 		You're talking about a hard limit. This is something you don't want done to you under any circumstances. It may be something that you physically can't handle. (such as electro shock for someone with a pacemaker). It may be something that could be extremely dangerous for someone with your medical condition to do. It may be something that you've suffered trauma with before. (such as your uncle hank hung himself so the idea of breath play would cause you to have a nervous breakdown.)

Here is a real life example of a hard limit. A submissive friend of mine is a pain slut. She can ahndle a great deal more pain than many Dominants are willing to dish out. One of her Hard Limits are no spoons. It is the result of a childhood trauma involving her mother beating and abusing her (not in the fun way) with a cooking spoon. I was monotoring during a scene with another Dom because I knew her better. She had overlooked mentioning the spoon. The Dom pulled out a spoon and i got his attention and shook my head. He frowned, shrugged and put it away and talked to her about it. He is an example of a responcible Dom.

I think the answer is clear. It is a hard limit and "hard limit" means under no circumstance do you do this to me. A caring and responcible Dominant would not even edge around it without your very clear consent to do so. When you submit to a dominant you give up a particular portion of the control you have. If you're submitting to a scene then you're giving up your consent for a scene, or for a day, or for a week, etc. You, as a submissive, choose to give up your consent. When you set a hard limit you're saying I give you consent to do anything you want to me except ______. The Dominant does not have your consent to do this. Pushing it, edging around it or doing it outright is doing it without your consent. Kink without consent is abuse.

There are also soft limits. These are things we're afraid of things we don't want to do now but think we might want to try in the future. I have a soft limit of electrical play. Elicitricity scares the hell out of me as the result of me absorbing near fatal dosage on multiple occasions at work. I had a woman who was Topping me and when we were discussing limits I told her about it. I also, told her that I wanted to see if I could work through it. Months later she began edging around it. She was very careful and never pushed too hard with it.

(in reply to magicone)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 4:30:19 PM   
TheChastiser


Posts: 95
Joined: 10/16/2005
From: Hemel Hempstead
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: magicone

may that question sounds strange but i would like to have some insight.
if a hard limit is already talked about, negotiated and both of you - the Dom and sub agreed on terms.
the Dom is coming up a couple of weeks later and trying to break your hard limit, push it....
what would you think?

thanks a lot for the reply...


i would say that if something has been defined as a hard limit, and this is agreed by both, then this should be respected. yes, revist the subject, as things do change, but such shouldnt be pushed. this is assuming that this is a D/s relationship as opposed to an M/s one?

Mike

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Let Me unchain your mind and your sexuality will follow.


(in reply to magicone)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 4:49:44 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheChastiser

this is assuming that this is a D/s relationship as opposed to an M/s one?


Beg your pardon?  I think I know what you're saying here, but I'd like some clarification.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to TheChastiser)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 4:56:49 PM   
completenz


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/10/2007
Status: offline 		i cant really say it any better than Darcy and some of the others have said.
i am so sorry this has happened to you. Follow what your instincts are telling you, thats why we have them.
good luck
chrissie

(in reply to magicone)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 5:23:11 PM   
PsyVamp


Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened


Oh hell, i didn't spell it out but the mutual agreement to non-exclusive i meant to imply.  But really, it was just me being a passive-agressive bitch because so much of the time the male wants non-exclusive or to add females but will insist on the females being exclusive to Him.  Or let the girls have each other but all gods forbid his submissive play with other males. 


Got a chuckle out of that one, it works the same way with the male subs as well.  I told my pet that I was thinking of adding a lesbian slave and he caught quite the attitude until I reminded him who makes the rules around here.

To the OP.  I wouldn't move a county away, never mind a country away, if something didn't feel right.  If you move anyway, please make sure that you have a way out should things not go the way you agreed.   If things are truly hard limits, they should be respected.  If you aren't compatible, or he doesn't like your limits, you need to find someone who is compatible and will respect your limits.  Don't settle just to have someone.

LJ

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(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 5:26:02 PM   
pettingdragons


Posts: 421
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline 		hard limit. do not do it
soft limit. not sure about it, maybe can be talked about.
Already discussed, set limits. do not do it or renegoitate limits.
Dump him. He will not be happy being monogamous.
I am a firm believer in Poly but there are those who are not and its hard to have someone who is not being who they need to be...
just my 2 cents
Pamela
"as the fall entices us to believe...here come another....we shall all fall into heaven"

(in reply to magicone)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 8:02:45 PM   
LunaticDesign


Posts: 42
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline 		D/s being Domination and submission
S/m being Sadism and Masochism

Am I correct? or were you refering M/s to Master / slave?

(in reply to pettingdragons)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 8:07:53 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheChastiser

this is assuming that this is a D/s relationship as opposed to an M/s one?

Beg your pardon?  I think I know what you're saying here, but I'd like some clarification.

Cali


Cali knows what the abbreviations mean, Lunatic.  Dude's saying there's no such thing as a hard limit in a Master/slave relationship, though there is one in a relationship between Dom and sub.  I would be grateful if no one went apeshit about this.

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 8:26:22 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Cali knows what the abbreviations mean, Lunatic.  Dude's saying there's no such thing as a hard limit in a Master/slave relationship, though there is one in a relationship between Dom and sub.  I would be grateful if no one went apeshit about this.


Okay Red, cuz you stated it so nicely and all. 

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 8:32:08 PM   
CNJDom


Posts: 186
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Southern NJ
Status: offline 		A hard limit is a  hard limit!  Some I feel don't quite get the concept of what a hard limit and a soft limit is.  Soft limits are there to be explored with patience and caution to take it slowly and carefully.  These limits are  agreed upon during the early  stages before play between  all parties involved.  A hard limit once discussed and understood should ONLY be renegotiated  again AFTER the individual that set that hard-limit wishes to address it again and perhaps reclassify it as a soft-limit. If the submissive set this limit, then it is only up to the submissive to bring it up again for any renegotiation.  Same holds true for a Dominant that has a hard or soft limit.  Don't laugh, We have them too (for instance your sub may with all her total being wish you to brand her with a mark, and you may not view that is something you wish to do without the proper training first.  So you either make that a hard or soft limit with stipulations in the future...and voila!  You've got hard or soft limits set by the Dominant!).  A hard limit is "NO" and a soft limit is "MAYBE".  So pushing a hard limit is pushing trust.  Break that trust and your toast as a Dominant to that submissive.  Just something to think about. span.jajahWrapper { font-size:1em; color:#B11196; text-decoration:underline; } a.jajahLink { color:#000000; text-decoration:none; } span.jajahInLink:hover { background-color:#B11196; }

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“For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it.”
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(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 8:49:50 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CNJDom

A hard limit once discussed and understood should ONLY be renegotiated  again AFTER the individual that set that hard-limit wishes to address it again and perhaps reclassify it as a soft-limit. If the submissive set this limit, then it is only up to the submissive to bring it up again for any renegotiation.


When I first started talking to a specific someone, I had about a million hard limits.  As I began to trust him, those limits fell away.  Looking back, I cannot be certain, but I would bet good money that he brought up some of them and I brought up some of them.  I see nothing wrong with the other person bringing up a hard limit, if it is done in a certain way, such as, "I understand that XXXX is a hard limit for you, I'd like to know if you still feel the same way or if anything has changed." 

I think tone and intent would go a long way with this.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to CNJDom)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 9:39:50 PM   
LunaticDesign


Posts: 42
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline 		[/quote]
Cali knows what the abbreviations mean, Lunatic.  Dude's saying there's no such thing as a hard limit in a Master/slave relationship, though there is one in a relationship between Dom and sub.  I would be grateful if no one went apeshit about this.

[/quote]

I wasn't saying she didn't I was merely clarifying some definitions so I could ask a question as well... After all I've never heard someone say "M/s" in conversation before it usually not abreviated in personal conversation.

My question was simple did he mean "sadism / masochism" or "Master / slave"?

Of course a slave does not have limits (excepting the ones clearly defined in precontract negotiation) that is the purpose for having diffrent words for similar things. A submissive is some one who still retains the power to say "no". A slave is someone who doesn't want the power to say "no". I am speaking of course about the actual roles and not refering to pet names you and your partner might have.


< Message edited by LunaticDesign -- 2/3/2008 9:56:11 PM >

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 9:44:07 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LunaticDesign






". A slave is someone who doesn't want the power to say "no". [/quote]

Really? And this is in the "True Master and slave handbook"? You have th authority to speak for all slaves do you? I am glad you are an expert on what everyones dynamic entails. The one true way theories don't go well here.

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Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to LunaticDesign)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 9:49:21 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs
Try seeing this from his perspective.  You have said that there is no compromise on this issue for you - he must move to your point of view.  If poly is part of who he is, like monogamy is part of who you are, you're really asking quite a lot of him but you don't seem to be acknowledging that.  While I don't think it was your intention to do so, you've issued an ultimatum.  If he can't make an absolute commitment to monogamy, his only choice is to leave.  It could be that he's not giving you a clear answer because he's still trying to figure it out, or doesn't like the answer he's come up with and is trying to find some other way. 


Total and utter bullshit.
 
If he was poly, he should have been clear to her in the first place.
If he was poly and agreed to monogamy he accepted responsibility of that decision and now follows it through, not change when it's too late for her to turn back.
Giving him a slight *yay* for at least indicating his preference before she is in a strange country yes - but don't shift the whole 'well your making him change' crap at her.
 
He is the one at fault here by denying his polyamourous leanings and pretending he can be something he isn't.  And yes there is blame when he wont communicate to her a clear message.  Shes been up front from the start - he is the one now walking along the line and not sure what border to cross... which sucks when there are others involved.  If he is trying to figure out a solution then at least he should give her that as an answer.  He hasn't - he is simply waiting for her to make the choice for him.
 
the.dark.

 
What she said!  Even the bs part.

Lunatic, uh...your definitions are really not so true for many people in the lifestyle, just fyi.  If they work for you fantastic!  They don't necessarily apply to others.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 9:54:56 PM   
LunaticDesign


Posts: 42
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline 		Yes as I understand it and as I have read definitions in several books and countless articles the fundamental diffrence between a slave and a submissive is that one doesn't want the power to say no after negotiations are done and one does.

I never once claimed that I have any authority over anyone who considers themself a slave. I am, like all people, limited by my own understanding of any subject. I may define submissive and slave diffrently than you or than it is defined in a book.

I'm sorry my definitions and my desire to speak up in a topic that I consider important has clearly upset you. I clearly define the two terms diffrently than you do. I am curious, how do you define the diffrence between a slave, submissive, and a bottom?

I'll admit I haven't read the "True Master and slave handbook". Who is it by and is it any good?

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 10:00:39 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		It doesn't matter what ours is. It is what works for us. Trying to force beliefs on others is what gets those into trouble here. What ever works for you great. The book was written by Onetruedom btw.

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Sir Pain's pain slut

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 10:11:19 PM   
LunaticDesign


Posts: 42
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline 		I am curious how I am "forcing my beliefs" onto anyone. I am simply stating an opinion as well as how I define the terms. I was curious how you define slave, submissive, and bottom because I'm trying to see things from your point of view so I can therefore develop a complete picture on a subject. Other people's opinions do actually matter to me. "If you cannot see something from multiple perspectives then you cannot truly understand that which you see."

I would very much like to know how you define slave, submissive, and bottom, not because I wish to flame you or to try and force my beliefs onto you but because I am seeking a greater understanding.

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 10:13:59 PM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		I meant in general those forcing their beliefs get flamed here. I won't hijack the thread to give our definition of sub and slave. We do have one but this isn't what the thread is about.

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Sir Pain's pain slut

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 10:24:54 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Okay, I said I wouldn't go apeshit over this... so I'll keep it short.  (But dammit Red, this is soooo NOT easy for me)

You are telling a woman who has a stated hard limit of monogamy only, that her hard limit is rendered not valid if she is a slave.  That may very well be your opinion, and if so, it would be helpful if you said, "in my opinion", "in my world", or "on my planet."  But that is certainly not a "standard", as there is no standard.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: hard limit - 2/3/2008 10:26:39 PM   
LunaticDesign


Posts: 42
Joined: 7/5/2007
Status: offline 		I am not hijacking the thread. My definition of the diffrences between slave, submissive and bottom is fundamental, to me, in the concept of hard limits. Since you have decided to debate that point with me I am trying to understand your position which I see as key to understanding the setting of limits and the enforcement of the same.

Personally I am against slaves as I define them. I believe that a slave, submissive, or bottom should have the power to say no under any circumstances and for any reason.

sorry had to edit this inreply to the double team

"Of course a slave does not have limits (excepting the ones clearly defined in precontract negotiation)"


I am curious how you argument is valid. You could also read my first post on this thread if you still wish to cast me in this light. Of course what I said is in my opinion. What you say is in your opinion unless you're clearly quoting or supporting someone else's opinion. Why would I have to waste time and create clutter by posting something I thought would have been obvious to everyone.

< Message edited by LunaticDesign -- 2/3/2008 10:36:13 PM >

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)
Profile   Post #: 60
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