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RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/4/2008 6:42:51 AM   
mhawk


Posts: 509
Joined: 11/5/2007
From: Washington
Status: offline 		well as far as "tent cities" go. it depends on where you live for the most part. i am not saying what i am about to, to brag because it is not something to brag about.

i have been homeless on one too many occasions to realy want to talk about. i have been in areas that are so large that all the shelter in the city are full to the max and then some that are sleeping on hard floors with no kind of padding. or some where on the same floor some are given padding and others are not. also have seen some shelters that are so full you almost have to be on a waiting list to be able to get in. hence that's where people end up sleeping on the streets under bridges,in parks,on sidewalks,in abandoned cars and who knows where else. and in some areas small groups of the homeless joining together in the deep woods somewhere in smaller versions on 'tent cities"

here's a good example,say someone is homeless and is disabled but cannot get enough documentation to get disablity,the shelter they go to requires each person to be able to work at least 30 hours a week but let's jsut say this person can't because of a type of condition they have. where does that lead them,out on the streets with no shelter of any kind.

this is why there should not be laws against ten cities. not saying they should be allowed in a free for all situation but have at least basic regulations of behavior so to speak so the law wouldn't have to be involved unless it was an absolute emergency.

there are so many out on the streets that have no place to go and there are solutions,not many are willing to come up with solutions. i have been in some cities where if you are literally caught being homeless you will be put into the city jail for a minium of 72 hours. how does that accomplish anything. something alot of people tend to forget not all the homeless people out there are out there by choice.

(in reply to nouveauboy)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/4/2008 7:01:10 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline 		One thing America is good at is covering up the unpleasent things. Sure they project the image of everything is ok.
Acording to the American image, the average family is a Husband and wife two kids, two cars, a nice house in the suberbs, great upwardly moblie jobs.

Errrrr! Wrong the average american faimly is a single parent struggleing to mak ends meet if not already on welfare, 4-8 children they can't afford or even care about, all with and education no higher than the 10th grade.

Sad but true America is in horrible shape but no one is trying to do anything about it. Back in the day Nixon (I think it was Nixo) tried to end poverty in america. It went so bad that they tried to cover it up. How messed up is it that your country is so in the red that you have to beg your one time rival for money? (referancing how Bush get billions from China just to keep this counrty afloat)

Sadly (Pfff) the fall of the American Empire is within sight, 15-50 years should do it.

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/4/2008 7:19:00 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Hey Joanus- Welcome back!

(in reply to mhawk)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/4/2008 7:23:15 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

--the tents are an exxagerration.

the site is moody- there are poor people- 


And we will always have some poor.  But I would not go so far as to say the tents are an exaggeration.  There is a picture, after all.

quote:

in my day to day the most i see is one homeless - our small shelter is nowhere near full.


That's because they all moved here.  Better weather overall, ya know, if you have to be out on the streets.


quote:

---oh on the debt- that is REAL. and it will be our downfall and soon.  cookoo is right on ...


So I have to wonder why you are throwing your support to one of the Dem candidates?  They are all going to do the same thing...raise taxes, continue to mis-spend the money, and continue to borrow from the Fed.
Why would you not at least look further into what it being said and linked and investigate Dr. Ron Paul as a viable candidate?
 
Otherwise, pahunk, you are just going along with the program or holding out false hope that something miraculous is going to turn this whole mess around. 
 
*Edited for tags


That pic- lol- It isnt a problem.   Yes- homelss migrate to warmer climates in winter.

Actually I do plan to vote for Ron Paul.  if he is still in the race on April 22 for PA.  after that my choice is Obama.  my 1st choice is Dennis Kucinich.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/4/2008 7:25:29 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		FR:
I find it most interesting that we go on and on about who we are going to vote for when anyone who does not know that our vote counts for nothing must not have finished fourth grade civics.
In the U.S. presidents never have been elected they have always been appointed.  They are appointed by "electors" who,themselves, are appointed by legislators who may or may not have been elected in a rigged process whereby only some people may be put up for election.  At least the "commies" are honest enough to tell the "voters" you only have one choice to vote for.
Until the ballot has a space that says "none of the above" and the office stays vacant until one of the above has more votes than "none of the above" will there be an election that has any meaning.
thompson
thompson

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/4/2008 11:26:25 AM   
mhawk


Posts: 509
Joined: 11/5/2007
From: Washington
Status: offline 		well said joanus................................................also i would like to add, if we all think about it form time to time sooner or later everyone is just one paycheck away .

< Message edited by mhawk -- 2/4/2008 11:27:02 AM >

(in reply to joanus)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/4/2008 6:33:03 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Tent cities soon, along with the dismantling of the middle class. Strange, isn't it? It's like people are asleep. They forgot the good days we had under Bill Clinton. All they remember is the lie he told, the intern he fucked. They don't remember the peace, the respect we had from the rest of the world, the best economy since WWII.

Bush gets in, and suddenly everything goes to shit. He tells lies by the bucketload, thousands die, the national debt doubles, and the economy teeters on the brink of recession (threatening to drag the rest of the world down with us.)  Add to that, we have to bear the fact that we're no better now than some bannana republic where political dissidents disappear off the street and are tortured without trial.

There are/were times I think I might vote for McCain. But then I remember that I'd be voting into the White House a whole cadre of GOP mole rats along with him. Fuck that.

The days ahead are going to be a bitch, no matter who gets in. The question is, do we take care of regular people, or do we continue to just give economic blowjobs to the uber rich?

It's weird... but every day the US and the world gets a little more like.... well, do any of you remember the movie, "They Live?" 


Actually, I am reminded of one of my favorite movies, "The Grapes Of Wrath".
Remember Tom Joad and the Joad family?
Hang on to your hats and your homes, it is going to be a bumpy ride.
 

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/4/2008 10:45:36 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

Sad but true America is in horrible shape but no one is trying to do anything about it. Back in the day Nixon (I think it was Nixo) tried to end poverty in america. It went so bad that they tried to cover it up. How messed up is it that your country is so in the red that you have to beg your one time rival for money? (referancing how Bush get billions from China just to keep this counrty afloat)

Sadly (Pfff) the fall of the American Empire is within sight, 15-50 years should do it.


Are you referring to Lyndon Baines Johnson's "War on Poverty"?http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1964johnson-warpoverty.html



_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to joanus)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/5/2008 3:49:37 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No thats fine but a fairytale.  Ron Paul is a bigger fraud than Estes Kefauver.

but I support your desires, I have exactly the same desires, we just have a different reality.

Ron 



Who would you reccomend who has a better voting record to back them up?  I need somoene to vote for who represents my desire for reform.   Real, meaningful reform, and he is the best one of 3 maybe that I know of who does.


quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

There are/were times I think I might vote for McCain. But then I remember that I'd be voting into the White House a whole cadre of GOP mole rats along with him. Fuck that.

The days ahead are going to be a bitch, no matter who gets in. The question is, do we take care of regular people, or do we continue to just give economic blowjobs to the uber rich?


agreed

My position is which dem or rep is different than what we already have since what we already have is not working?

I fly by the old addage that doing the same thing and expecting a different result is insanity.

The crisis continue to get worse and the dolla keeps heading toward zero.  (the desognated landing zone for a fiat system)

It will be interesting to see how bad it has to get before the people wake up and if they will pick up their guns when they do?

I suppose the nice thing about the level of corruption we have is that we no longer need to vote since diebold does it for us.






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 2/5/2008 3:50:58 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/5/2008 3:57:33 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

Sad but true America is in horrible shape but no one is trying to do anything about it. Back in the day Nixon (I think it was Nixo) tried to end poverty in america. It went so bad that they tried to cover it up. How messed up is it that your country is so in the red that you have to beg your one time rival for money? (referancing how Bush get billions from China just to keep this counrty afloat)

Sadly (Pfff) the fall of the American Empire is within sight, 15-50 years should do it.


Are you referring to Lyndon Baines Johnson's "War on Poverty"?http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1964johnson-warpoverty.html




Creating entitlement programs creates socialist sap suckers and people who will forever try to protect what they believe as "free money".   The welfare program, social security all has its staunch supporters who will fight to maintain its existance, especiallyu simce they made huge investments in the system.

The answer imo is to get more money into thte hands of more people, not with a welfare check by any other definition but by increasing the ability for the common man to go into business by busting up these conglomerates and removing corporate personhood so corps can no longer contribute to champaigns and have a sunset clause.

the founders designed it that way for a reason, being the reason we are all complaining about our gov and biz out of control right now.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/5/2008 5:12:56 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

Are you referring to Lyndon Baines Johnson's "War on Poverty"?http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1964johnson-warpoverty.html




Thank you, I didn't know which Pres. did that.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/5/2008 7:19:52 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

quote:

ORIGINAL: joanus

Sad but true America is in horrible shape but no one is trying to do anything about it. Back in the day Nixon (I think it was Nixo) tried to end poverty in america. It went so bad that they tried to cover it up. How messed up is it that your country is so in the red that you have to beg your one time rival for money? (referancing how Bush get billions from China just to keep this counrty afloat)

Sadly (Pfff) the fall of the American Empire is within sight, 15-50 years should do it.


Are you referring to Lyndon Baines Johnson's "War on Poverty"?http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1964johnson-warpoverty.html




Which cut poverty in half.Not a bad result,IMO.


What was it that was covered up,as you suggested?

What was it that" went so bad" and who are the "they" you refereed to?



I don`t remember anything like that.


< Message edited by Owner59 -- 2/5/2008 7:20:50 AM >

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/5/2008 9:39:24 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Which cut poverty in half.Not a bad result,IMO.

What was it that was covered up,as you suggested?

What was it that" went so bad" and who are the "they" you refereed to?

I don`t remember anything like that.



1 it didn't cut anything in half every is still poor as shit here.

2 Ask and goverment Offical why it didn't work and they will side step the whole question. Or ask and single person (who isn't a hardcore history student) and I'd say about 1 in 10 could tell you about it the rest simple don't know.

3 "They" the people who were actually on the project, "when so bad" as in it totally bombed. the project wasted thousands of dollars and gained nothing in return.

I know about three people who live here (or around) who were sent from Washington to work on the project (and apperantly forgotten about, talk about your "one man left behind" policy) and the told me most of the stroy.

The Project was flawed from the start. They sent a hand full of people, a 1/3 of which were actual Goverment Officals who knew what they where doing, the rest where dumb college kids looking for an easy buck. First of all while the project was funded it did not have the funds to support a project of the magnitude. Second too few workers on the project most of which could not tell their ass from their elbow. Finally you canno't help people you don't want help.
think of it this way why would a simple redneck with barey a 10th grade education and no job skills, give up free money from the goverment. Basicly its free money, drink beer and sit on your ass, or get out get a job and make your self a respectible hard working person.

Basicly it was doomed from the start.
You can't change a sal's ear into a silk purse.

(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/5/2008 9:49:44 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Creating entitlement programs creates socialist sap suckers and people who will forever try to protect what they believe as "free money".   The welfare program, social security all has its staunch supporters who will fight to maintain its existance, especiallyu simce they made huge investments in the system.

The answer imo is to get more money into thte hands of more people, not with a welfare check by any other definition but by increasing the ability for the common man to go into business by busting up these conglomerates and removing corporate personhood so corps can no longer contribute to champaigns and have a sunset clause.

the founders designed it that way for a reason, being the reason we are all complaining about our gov and biz out of control right now.



Ok first of all with all the "down with corperation" hippie talk you sound a little like some one who really really really likes hemp.
The solution to these problems is to simply get rid of those programs. We get rid of the welfare system etc. Those people will be left with two choices;

1 They can go out and get jobs and make it like the rest of us.
or
2 (my favorite) They can die, freeing up more space for the rest of us.

Selfish yeah a little, but people need to grow up. Life isn't fair so suck it.
People who talk about getting rid of Corperations a simply jealous that they didn't come up with it first.

If you where the head of Hemp.Inc a 100 million dollar a day company with tons of cash and women, you wouldn't be complaining.

So if you put in the effort and capitolized on a growing market, good for you, you deserve all those billions.

But if you sit at home burning rope and complaining because you live in a crapshack instead of doing something about it, buddy you desrve living in filth.

Just a few words from the great Sage Joanus

< Message edited by joanus -- 2/5/2008 9:52:54 AM >

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/5/2008 4:29:07 PM   
libbiez


Posts: 12
Joined: 7/8/2007
Status: offline 		wow most of the rednecks i know actualy work and are not on welfare but thats just me....
anyway i am a single momma (far from a redneck by the way), poor as dirt, will be homeless in what 9 days unless i can pull something out of my hat, yes i work, no i am not on welfare and my redneck exhusband and i both actualy finished highschool! *gasp*
I would have to say most of the people i do know on welfare were raised on it... its a shame some of the people here on a sight that should be "open minded" and who rant about thier inteligence can do nothing but slam people they obviously have no clue about.
Tent cities in this area are very real, the shelters are dangerous and overflowing with people who are drunk or on drugs, one man died here this year, found in a tent behind walmart, the hobo jungle as its called commonly is overflowing into the business district and people are turning a blind eye to it.
Hard to believe in a place so well educated (Cornell and Ithaca Collage being within the 10 square miles of this beautiful city) that nothing is actualy done.
as a single mom the only way i can afford a 3 bedroom appartment is to get on welfare but i refuse... good luck to my babies as i try to find the $1200 a month plus utilities it takes even to lay thier heads... wait walmart has a sale on tents this week got ta go!

(in reply to joanus)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/5/2008 4:51:02 PM   
Daddysjezzy


Posts: 54
Joined: 7/4/2005
Status: offline 		Please bear with me while I ask for some clarification as Im not from the US.  Why does the article claim that the Federal Reserve Taxes are illegal?  Thanks and Im finding the discussion really interesting.

jezzy

(in reply to nouveauboy)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/5/2008 4:59:16 PM   
mhawk


Posts: 509
Joined: 11/5/2007
From: Washington
Status: offline 		lib for one as i mentioned previously i do most certainly understand. this is actually something i sort of meant earlier.well actually i do mean it. you know what it's like being on that edge hanging by a thread,working hard and doing all you can do and then some. i commend you,you have shown also that regardless of eduaction or jobs that everyone can be affected and for alot of people being in these situations is not always by choice.

i kwow and understnad what you mean about shelters being overflowing.i've been on that overflow list,it's not pretty by any means.that's how i spend 72 hours in jail,there was no room in the shelters,i couldn't afford a recovery program and had no family there to help even if i had asked them too.i've even been turned away from shelters from making too much money but not making enough to afford cheap rent,something seriously wrong with that.oh i know it's the stay in the run down hotel/motel.

i agree and it may upset some but unless someone has been there or is there(which is something we both know about) or have known people directly who go through it,they have no sense of the hard realities of it all at the end of they day.

(in reply to libbiez)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/6/2008 7:27:29 AM   
joanus


Posts: 527
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: libbiez

wow most of the rednecks i know actualy work and are not on welfare but thats just me....
anyway i am a single momma (far from a redneck by the way), poor as dirt, will be homeless in what 9 days unless i can pull something out of my hat, yes i work, no i am not on welfare and my redneck exhusband and i both actualy finished highschool! *gasp*
I would have to say most of the people i do know on welfare were raised on it... its a shame some of the people here on a sight that should be "open minded" and who rant about thier inteligence can do nothing but slam people they obviously have no clue about.*
Tent cities in this area are very real, the shelters are dangerous and overflowing with people who are drunk or on drugs, one man died here this year, found in a tent behind walmart, the hobo jungle as its called commonly is overflowing into the business district and people are turning a blind eye to it.
Hard to believe in a place so well educated (Cornell and Ithaca Collage being within the 10 square miles of this beautiful city) that nothing is actualy done.
as a single mom the only way i can afford a 3 bedroom appartment is to get on welfare but i refuse**... good luck to my babies as i try to find the $1200 a month plus utilities it takes even to lay thier heads... wait walmart has a sale on tents this week got ta go!


*First of all I live hip deep in those kind of people, and have watched them every day of my life. So I think I qualify as a good judge.
Most of the these people are on welfare and if they are working its menial jobs at factories as temps on minimum wage for 90 days with out Benifets, then fired at the end of the 90 period and rehired for a 90 days then fired, etc etc....

**At least you have pride enough not to abuse the system. I was at one point living out of my car and eating out of garbage cans rather than bumming off the government. I struggled but a month later I had an apartment and a job that paid the bills.
As far as Apartment cost have you tried fining low income houseing. I know where you can get a 3 bedroom apartment for $500 a month with free cable. The key is location location location. Also if you can barely affort to feed cloth and house yourself having multiple children is the last thing you should want to do. The goverment actually offers free hisorectomies/visectomies to extreme low income and welfare families.
Or you could look into getting a second job.

Life is what you make it.

(in reply to libbiez)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/6/2008 10:08:59 AM   
knees2you


Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I do believe it is not so dissimilar here, those that lose everything end up living on the streets.The only thing that prevents 'tent cities' is our laws, which the police seem all to keen to enforce, especially when wealthy and influential nimby's start flapping their lips.

At one time land was available, common land I think for people to stay, but that has long gone.

Here it would seem if you cannot afford bricks and mortar and there rents and mortgages, you are not wanted and have no place in society.

Housing problems for the poor could be alleviated with housing that is not bricks and mortar, in fact the Scandinavian wooden pre assembled houses are far cheaper to buy, quicker to get living in and thermally more efficient than bricks and mortar, yet no one is keen to allow their construction.


This is Perfectly said!  Thanks Aneirin!
 
As Always, Ant


(in reply to nouveauboy)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The Beginning of the Depression : Americans now liv... - 2/6/2008 3:53:09 PM   
libbiez


Posts: 12
Joined: 7/8/2007
Status: offline 		just a side note, we do have health insurance and as i said most of the rednecks i know hold a job, meaning that they have worked at the same place for more than a year (my ex has been employed by the same company for 23 years) yes i can get a place for about $600 a month but i will have to drive 45 minutes to get to work and again to get home... at my waitress pay of $4.60 an hour and gas at $3.91 a gal. how far will my check go? i am looking at a 20 mile radius for housing. i would think a reasonable distance to have to be outside of the "city" minimum rents are $900 avg. are closer to the above stated $1200 including nothing.
yes i would love to move away, but i dont need to be arrested for kidnapping my own children.

(in reply to knees2you)
Profile   Post #: 40
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