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RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/28/2008 5:42:48 PM

faerytattoodgirl

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eh seimens or however u spell it made my pacemaker.

in fact they screwed it up too and they had to shell out hundreds of millions of bucks...i got $15,000 way back in 1998...god that was an amazing year. they fucked up the leads in all the pacemakers and like 4 people died..from faulty leads..so you had to change them right away.

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RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/28/2008 6:56:38 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Microsoft employs many, many brilliant people working 12 hours a day or more with tons of money to spend and few restrictions as to the limits of their creativity.

Then why are *all* their products crap? From Windows to Office to .Net to Sharepoint to....

Ah, but crap is so subjective, isn't it? One person's crap is another person's fetish. It's all good.

Besides, you can always go Mac.

I do backends.

More like Linux/Unix -> IBM Z-series as needed for the heavy lifting.

Real computers come with Perl installed.

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ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/28/2008 7:26:07 PM

brainiacsub

Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
I do backends.

More like Linux/Unix -> IBM Z-series as needed for the heavy lifting.

Real computers come with Perl installed.

holy hell...not another religious war 'Windows vs. Unix'. Me personally, I am technology agnostic. I will consider any platform scrutinizing each using a cost-benefit analysis weighing efficiency, effectiveness, and supportability as selection criteria. Sometimes it is Windows, and sometimes it is not. Sometimes you just have to pick your poison.

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Post #: 23

RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/29/2008 9:07:19 PM

outlier

Posts: 1111
Joined: 10/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

The people thinking up this stuff are way ahead of the business folk whose job it is to find practical applications for all this cool technology. Although it is wise to question government and big corporations when it comes to capturing and storing large quantities of personal data, I can assure you that there is nothing sinister about this technology or the company that created it. Just my opinion, of course.

brainiacsub,

Thank you for your contribution and welcome to the boards

I also thank you for your assurance but I believe you are missing the point. Given that technology is just a way to empower people Obviously technology itself is never sinister, it is amoral, it has no values of it's own. Which does not address, much less negates, the possibilities for misuse of any developed technology.

It is the uses it is (or can be) put to that are of concern. And the motives of those who employ it that you must be aware of and sometimes guard against. You can argue that any company is not sinister, it is just an amoral profit driven machine. And the people in it are also amoral they are after all just doing their jobs; "just following orders", so to speak.

Given all of those arguments why does elude you that there are some powers it is unreasonable for some people to have?

History is rampant with examples of brainy people discovering and/or inventing things which then went on to be used in horrifying ways the discoverers/inventors never imagined. I will not put a list up here. I am sure you are aware of some of the more striking examples.

The article referenced in the OP was not speaking of home comfort or patients being hooked up for doctors. It spoke of employees being hooked up by employers, presumably as a condition of employment. As a private person I don't like it when my privacy is invaded. And the hairs on the back of my neck go way up when someone smiles sweetly and says; "It's for your own good.". That is my opinion and why I thought it worth posting.

Outlier

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Post #: 24

RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/29/2008 9:22:45 PM

outlier

Posts: 1111
Joined: 10/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

And a company with such devices installed would have.... who? working for them? exactly?

Like... nobody?

except maybe in china

Stephan

Stephan,

I can think of a long list of people who could have this inflicted
upon them. People who cannot afford to lose their jobs because
they have: mortgages, UMs, want or need to keep their health
insurance, people who are a few years short of a vested pension.
In other words a lot of people with real life grown up responsibilities.
Some of which could inhibit them getting another job.

Look around, you will see a lot of them.

Outlier

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"A happy sex life may take years to achieve, but it’s worth it in the long run.
Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness - and, often,
the waiting." Pete Seeger

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Post #: 25

RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/29/2008 9:49:31 PM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier

Right on !!!! Let's all hate on Microsoft because in 1984 they saw the value of having a machine and software program that might make you live longer.

(Fucking bastards).

Sneaky little fuckers, aren't they?

I think the 1984 is in reference to the book by George Orwell by that name. It was about big brother and how the meaning of words were changed...and all for you own good just what big brothers are for.

If for one second you believe this is for the benfit of the employee...you are dreaming. This is employer fascism in the office (on the job) and nothing less. More people will be fired and denied medical insurance. These measurements and the records will be used first for higher premiums and then starts the slippery side of life insurance being denied or more costly and ultimately used to weed all of the sick (and soon dead) out of the insurance pools (groups).

This is all about money, saving and profiting from prior or realtime health knowledge. Americans have seen their productivity rise 40% since 1992...yet our wages are falling and $1,000 more per household since Bush and it's getting tougher to make those profits off empty pockets so they will take more out of our check if we wish to live and have a job at all.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 1/29/2008 9:52:10 PM >

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RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/30/2008 8:40:59 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

And a company with such devices installed would have.... who? working for them? exactly?

Like... nobody?

except maybe in china

Stephan

Stephan,

I can think of a long list of people who could have this inflicted
upon them. People who cannot afford to lose their jobs because
they have: mortgages, UMs, want or need to keep their health
insurance, people who are a few years short of a vested pension.
In other words a lot of people with real life grown up responsibilities.
Some of which could inhibit them getting another job.

Look around, you will see a lot of them.

Outlier

Business society follows society. The first companies to use this technology will face stiff opposition from their Unions.

I don't cry for the worker, though. If you don't like your job, build a better mousetrap and take the risk yourself. Businesses don't exist for the welfare of their workers; workers exist for the benefit of their businesses.

For the record, I don't say this with a silver spoon in my mouth. You probably spent more in gas last year, then I earned.

Stephan

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Post #: 27

RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/30/2008 3:33:58 PM

outlier

Posts: 1111
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

And a company with such devices installed would have.... who? working for them? exactly?

Like... nobody?

except maybe in china

Stephan

Stephan,

I can think of a long list of people who could have this inflicted
upon them. People who cannot afford to lose their jobs because
they have: mortgages, UMs, want or need to keep their health
insurance, people who are a few years short of a vested pension.
In other words a lot of people with real life grown up responsibilities.
Some of which could inhibit them getting another job.

Look around, you will see a lot of them.

Outlier

Business society follows society. The first companies to use this technology will face stiff opposition from their Unions.

I don't cry for the worker, though. If you don't like your job, build a better mousetrap and take the risk yourself. Businesses don't exist for the welfare of their workers; workers exist for the benefit of their businesses.

For the record, I don't say this with a silver spoon in my mouth. You probably spent more in gas last year, then I earned.

Stephan

Stephan,

I disagree with this point made by first farglebargle then yourself.

quote:

Business society follows society. The first companies to use this technology will face stiff opposition from their Unions.

Stephan

I think this will be introduced first as a condition for those hired through
temp agencies. A sector that is rapidly growing. Since it allows businesses
to "try out" employees without invoking hiring laws and practices.

As to this statementof yours:

quote:

"Businesses don't exist for the welfare of their workers; workers exist for the benefit of their businesses."

I thank you for it since it further supports my point. Businesses don't usually do things just for the benefit of the employees. So when they tell you that, you have reason to be suspicious as to the real motive.

For me to comment upon your personal feelings and attitudes:

quote:

"I don't cry for the worker, though. If you don't like your job, build a better mousetrap and take the risk yourself."

Would be a violation of TOS. So as one of my logic professors used
to say "I will make you a gift of it." I will leave it to speak for itself.

Outlier

_____________________________

Avatar from xkcd.com

"A happy sex life may take years to achieve, but it’s worth it in the long run.
Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness - and, often,
the waiting." Pete Seeger

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Post #: 28

RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/30/2008 4:33:17 PM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline

Sorry, but I'm not leaving a coin in your hood for that lesson.

My opinion on capitalism is hardly in violation of the TOS. My joined date on this profile's a bit misleading, but I'm not a new kid on the block here.

I agree, this technology is repugnant. It's the continuation of where our society is willfully taking itself; we purchase software and gadgets because they require less thought and finesse, not more training and competancy. In Vista, the top 10% are forced to do battle with all sorts of "let me help you" prompts, from the UAC and file/folder access restrictions, to shutting off Autoplay, to having to manually disable the Help system from searching for answers online that you never asked for. It's maddening. Yet, the top 10% gets there, by learning how to disable 'intuitive' features, to make a system more reliable.

I'm also frustrated with the direction that companies are going; I recently applied for a job at Borders, because it's right down the street and I need something part time. As part of their application process, I was incensed to be confronted with a 100 question psychological profiling quiz. I took it... and was so angry by the end, that I've decided that I'll never take one again.

If I found these quizes (as part of an initial application process, as opposed to a second interview) to become more common, I'd invest time and effort to design and develop software to crack and bypass these initial testing procedures; leaving those who receive my application with a 'blank' answer (or a perfect score.) For every person who builds a better lock, there'll be an industry designed to break it.

Regards,

Stephan

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RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/30/2008 4:33:17 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle
I do backends.

More like Linux/Unix -> IBM Z-series as needed for the heavy lifting.

Real computers come with Perl installed.

holy hell...not another religious war 'Windows vs. Unix'. Me personally, I am technology agnostic. I will consider any platform scrutinizing each using a cost-benefit analysis weighing efficiency, effectiveness, and supportability as selection criteria. Sometimes it is Windows, and sometimes it is not. Sometimes you just have to pick your poison.

If you setup an infrastructure where you can *painlessly* replace the end-users Winders machines when they get too craptacular and, through proper policy enforcement, keep users from installing all sorts of crap they don't suck too bad.

All that infrastructure and staff is money thrown down a toilet, but what are you going to do?

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/30/2008 4:50:39 PM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
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quote:

All that infrastructure and staff is money thrown down a toilet, but what are you going to do?

See, one of the problems with Unix based systems is that it does ride the wave of shareware. People like to feel they have gotten something for their money; Microsoft is excellent at giving people that Porsche feeling (even if they have a Pinto engine.)

I agree, the future is Open Source. Someone needs to pay for the bricks in the road that leads there. Apple revolutionized how people see computer systems. Microsoft revolutionized the way people looked at Apple. It isn't the leap in intelligence, or raw computing power that put Mac (with their mouse) or Windows (with the ability to integrate all commonly needed activities into one easy software package) on the map. It's the design that tells people "doing it this way is easier." The longer Microsoft rests on their Laurels of the 1990s, the fatter a target their ass will present when the Next Big Design comes along. Mark my words, it's already on the way; in the form of an iPhone.

Stephan

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RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/30/2008 5:14:05 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

quote:

All that infrastructure and staff is money thrown down a toilet, but what are you going to do?

See, one of the problems with Unix based systems is that it does ride the wave of shareware. People like to feel they have gotten something for their money; Microsoft is excellent at giving people that Porsche feeling (even if they have a Pinto engine.)

My real issue isn't the price of software, rather the Labor and Infrastructure cost of SUPPORTING the Windows machines.

CALs are for losers, though.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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Post #: 32

RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/30/2008 10:00:25 PM

outlier

Posts: 1111
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Stephan

quote:

Outlier
For me to comment upon your personal feelings and attitudes:

quote:

Stephan
"I don't cry for the worker, though. If you don't like your job, build a better mousetrap and take the risk yourself."

Would be a violation of TOS. So as one of my logic professors used to say "I will make you a gift of it." I will leave it to speak for itself.

Outlier

Sorry, but I'm not leaving a coin in your hood for that lesson.

My opinion on capitalism is hardly in violation of the TOS. My joined date on this profile's a bit misleading, but I'm not a new kid on the block here.
Stephan

Stephan please reread the above. I never said your comment was a violation of TOS. I said it was an expression of your personal feelings. As such, any comment by me would have been a comment about you and would have constituted a personalizing of the thread on my part.

This would have been a violation of TOS on my part.
So I let it "speak for itself".

See you around the boards
Outlier

_____________________________

Avatar from xkcd.com

"A happy sex life may take years to achieve, but it’s worth it in the long run.
Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness - and, often,
the waiting." Pete Seeger

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Post #: 33

RE: MICROSOFT'S 1984WARE Patent Application - 1/31/2008 8:13:30 AM

brainiacsub

Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier
brainiacsub,

Thank you for your contribution and welcome to the boards

I also thank you for your assurance but I believe you are missing the point. Given that technology is just a way to empower people Obviously technology itself is never sinister, it is amoral, it has no values of it's own. Which does not address, much less negates, the possibilities for misuse of any developed technology.

It is the uses it is (or can be) put to that are of concern. And the motives of those who employ it that you must be aware of and sometimes guard against. You can argue that any company is not sinister, it is just an amoral profit driven machine. And the people in it are also amoral they are after all just doing their jobs; "just following orders", so to speak.

Given all of those arguments why does elude you that there are some powers it is unreasonable for some people to have?

History is rampant with examples of brainy people discovering and/or inventing things which then went on to be used in horrifying ways the discoverers/inventors never imagined. I will not put a list up here. I am sure you are aware of some of the more striking examples.

The article referenced in the OP was not speaking of home comfort or patients being hooked up for doctors. It spoke of employees being hooked up by employers, presumably as a condition of employment. As a private person I don't like it when my privacy is invaded. And the hairs on the back of my neck go way up when someone smiles sweetly and says; "It's for your own good.". That is my opinion and why I thought it worth posting.

Outlier

Outlier, thanks for the welcome. I have thoroughly enjoyed my short time on the boards.

It hasn't eluded me that there are some powers people shouldn't have. I am well aware of the potential abuses inherent in the applications of essentially amoral technology. We should all be ever watchful and cognizant of those whose intentions might be nefarious or self-serving. However, I am a strong believer in the checks and balances inherent in a free market governed by rule of law. The market will dictate how this technology is used, and the law will protect individual rights. Now, the real problem I see is when our government caters to and serves the interests of big business rather than the people. The law will quickly follow and become a vehicle of oppression rather than justice. But, that my friend, I believe is another thread and I didn't want to use that soap box to derail this one. As for the OP, I read it with mild amusement, as you should my response.

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Post #: 34