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Help- me- NIMBY ? - 1/22/2008 3:49:50 PM   
pahunkboy


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http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/120097141775200.xml&coll=1

Hello.  As you know I posted about crime. Williamsport was a nice place- then the drug rehab industry ruined it. I see the above- not in the Daily Item, but in a Harrisburg paper!!

I dont want it here.

I think it will tip the area into un-ending crime.

I gotta form some ideas on this.  The property could easily be a retirement community. I toured the grounds they talk about.

If this were you, in your community, how would you handle it?

I ran it past a neighbor and she was dumbfounded on it;.

Notice the key phrase in the article.  "department of corrections"

help
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RE: Help- me- NIMBY ? - 1/22/2008 3:51:40 PM   
TheLookingGirl


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How will it bring un-ending crime? Sounds like they need it if they are putting it there. Could use something like that around here...in an area that REALLY has un-ending crime.

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RE: Help- me- NIMBY ? - 1/22/2008 3:59:19 PM   
TheLookingGirl


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"Clientele will be non-violent people with addiction problems, not those with security or mental issues, Ertel said. He said Firetree might expand its treatment to gambling addiction and smoking cessation"

It's just a drug re-hab center....

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RE: Help- me- NIMBY ? - 1/22/2008 4:03:13 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Do you want it next to your house?

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RE: Help- me- NIMBY ? - 1/22/2008 4:04:06 PM   
pahunkboy


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-the part about the deparment of corrections tells me it is court mandated.  a user wont clean up unless they themself do it- not the court. Also- these places- the family and friends follow- well the prisons they do.

50 beds.   to start.

ild be cuious what the township stipulations are.

alot of group homes and halfway houses are already here. i suppose cos zoning is easy.

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RE: Help- me- NIMBY ? - 1/23/2008 3:09:01 PM   
TheLookingGirl


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Is it truely going next to the OP's house? If so then yes I would oppose it. But it sounds like it's just in the community...NOT right next door.

I can understand your concern over the Department of Corrections part, but just because they have a contract with them, dosent mean that those patients who are going are court ordered. Jails are full of people who don't belong there because they have substance abuse issues or mental health issues, and they end up commiting crimes, going to jail, and never getting help for the true source of the problem. Creating an avenue to help them is not a bad thing, IMPO. The article says it will be for drug treatment only, and that's too bad because they could benefit from opening it up for the mentally unstable as well.

~edited to fix a spelling error...one of many.

< Message edited by TheLookingGirl -- 1/23/2008 3:10:38 PM >


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The strongest & most effective force in assuring the long-term maintenance of power is not violence in all the forms deployed by the dominant to control the dominated,but consent in all the forms in which the dominated acquiesce in their own domination.

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RE: Help- me- NIMBY ? - 1/23/2008 3:47:10 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Do you want it across the street?

How about a block away?



quote:

ORIGINAL: TheLookingGirl


Jails are full of people who don't belong there because they have substance abuse issues or mental health issues, and they end up commiting crimes, going to jail, and never getting help for the true source of the problem.



First off, in many states there are drug courts, that deal with the early offenders. There is a ton of treatment out there for people who want it, the problem is, many cannot respond to treatment and many who do not want to respond to it. The treatment rate of addicts is beyond pathetic and the nation pours billions of local. satate, and federal tax dollars into it every year. So too does the private sector.

But here is the reason, no matter how good the treatment, it is up to the drug abuser to change.

BTW, most county and I mean about 98+ plus of American county jails have at least one AA and NA meeting a day, (and many have several a day) in conjunction with other treatment programs and ALL of the prison systems do!

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 1/23/2008 3:51:54 PM >

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RE: Help- me- NIMBY ? - 1/23/2008 4:07:09 PM   
pahunkboy


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I guess it isnt the worse thing that could ever happen. I have made some phone calls... a senior assisted living center would be a better use of that property.  Sunbury was almost teh state capital-  it was one vote off- by a rep from a town next to us, Northumberland. lol.

The big picture is- as a community we are trying to fend off rampant crime. Thats a tall order.  --some of these outfits only want the state funind- they set up- and take the funding and barely provide service- at least thats how MR group homes go. In time they loose their license to operate.

Funny enuff this hadsnt hit the local paper yet-   once it does- im sure the locals will balk.   people who own porperty- more then what i own.

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RE: Help- me- NIMBY ? - 1/24/2008 3:38:56 PM   
TheLookingGirl


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“First off” I shouldn’t even be responding to this ridiculous post. You didn’t even bother to research ANYTHING you just typed. You blatantly made up statistics around your opinion. The only reason I’m even writing this, is to inform anyone who might stumble upon this little thread, that if you don’t do your homework you’ll end up looking stupid…like this guy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

First off, in many states there are drug courts, that deal with the early offenders.


Lets start here. Yes there are drug courts available. But they DO NOT deal solely with "early offenders". "...Most drug courts do not accept all offenders of drug related crime, often choosing to rule out violent offenders and those who sell drugs. Some courts choose to screen out offenders who are considered a risk. Some courts prefer offenders who have gone through treatment previously while others prefer the opposite. In the first 4 years of the Miami drug court, roughly 20% of all offenders of drug related crimes were accepted into the court" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_court)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

There is a ton of treatment out there for people who want it, the problem is, many cannot respond to treatment and many who do not want to respond to it. The treatment rate of addicts is beyond pathetic and the nation pours billions of local. satate, and federal tax dollars into it every year. So too does the private sector.

But here is the reason, no matter how good the treatment, it is up to the drug abuser to change.

BTW, most county and I mean about 98+ plus of American county jails have at least one AA and NA meeting a day, (and many have several a day) in conjunction with other treatment programs and ALL of the prison systems do!


Treatment costs money. Detoxing costs time. Do you get paid to get off drugs? NO. Many people who wind up in jail do want help. They have no way to get it. The reason why the relapse after treatment is not because they don't want to change, but they are not given the chance TO change. Put back in the same environment without encouragment to stay clean, of course they will continue to use drugs. "...Only an estimated 20 percent of U.S. inmates with substance use disorders receive some treatment while incarcerated.." ...funny how a 20 looks like a 95 to you. "...Judges may decide to incarcerate drug-addicted offenders instead of sending them to treatment programs because the resources to pay for treatment are lacking or there are no programs available in the community."(http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/16/4) I think that about sums up what should have been in the above quote, but wasn't due to the posters head up his ass.

This treatment center wouldn't even be going here if they didn't NEED it there.

"...An increased need for effective drug and alcohol rehab and addiction treatment in Pennsylvania is clearly evident as the drug problem in Pennsylvania continues to erode the quality life for far too many people." (http://www.stopaddiction.com/index.php/Pennsylvania/)



_____________________________

The strongest & most effective force in assuring the long-term maintenance of power is not violence in all the forms deployed by the dominant to control the dominated,but consent in all the forms in which the dominated acquiesce in their own domination.

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RE: Help- me- NIMBY ? - 1/25/2008 5:08:55 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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NA and AA are free

Most jails and prisons have multiple daily meeting.

Why don't the other 80% try them to start?

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RE: Help- me- NIMBY ? - 1/25/2008 9:07:17 PM   
Greylynn


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Well I'm sure every location they look at will have everyone in thoses areas saying not in my neighborhood too. 

Court ordered or voluntary, if there wasn't such a problem the facility wouldn't need to be built in the first place.   What about crime increasing and spreading out because people cannot get help.   Building it doesn't mean crime will come, it could reduce it because treatment is successful.  

Maybe instead of fighting it and making the situation more hostile, spin a positive on it and have the community come together to actually support people who are working on overcoming their problems and bettering themselves.  

It is bringing jobs in even  if it is bringing people that no one wants in their neighborhood. 


















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RE: Help- me- NIMBY ? - 1/26/2008 5:59:34 PM   
TheLookingGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

NA and AA are free

Most jails and prisons have multiple daily meeting.

Why don't the other 80% try them to start?


You're ignoring anything I'm saying. That dosent even make sense.



_____________________________

The strongest & most effective force in assuring the long-term maintenance of power is not violence in all the forms deployed by the dominant to control the dominated,but consent in all the forms in which the dominated acquiesce in their own domination.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
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RE: Help- me- NIMBY ? - 1/26/2008 6:13:46 PM   
DesFIP


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There's an alcohol rehab up the mountain and a couple of minimum security prisons around. Steady jobs, sought after, no change in crime rate. Basically, they mainly go home after rehab, no half way house which could be different although Hazelton's halfway houses in Minnesota don't contribute to a higher crime rate.

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