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Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 7:22:40 PM   
Level


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quote:

People with high cholesterol live the longest. This statement seems so incredible that it takes a long time to clear one´s brainwashed mind to fully understand its importance. Yet the fact that people with high cholesterol live the longest emerges clearly from many scientific papers. Consider the finding of Dr. Harlan Krumholz of the Department of Cardiovascular Medicine at Yale University, who reported in 1994 that old people with low cholesterol died twice as often from a heart attack as did old people with a high cholesterol.1 Supporters of the cholesterol campaign consistently ignore his observation, or consider it as a rare exception, produced by chance among a huge number of studies finding the opposite.
 
But it is not an exception; there are now a large number of findings that contradict the lipid hypothesis. To be more specific, most studies of old people have shown that high cholesterol is not a risk factor for coronary heart disease. This was the result of my search in the Medline database for studies addressing that question.2 Eleven studies of old people came up with that result, and a further seven studies found that high cholesterol did not predict all-cause mortality either.
 
Now consider that more than 90 % of all cardiovascular disease is seen in people above age 60 also and that almost all studies have found that high cholesterol is not a risk factor for women.2 This means that high cholesterol is only a risk factor for less than 5 % of those who die from a heart attack.

 
http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/benefits_cholest.html







quote:







For almost forty years, the lipid hypothesis or diet-heart idea has dominated medical thinking about heart disease. In broad outlines, this theory proposes that when we eat foods rich in saturated fat and cholesterol, cholesterol is then deposited in our arteries in the form of plaque or atheromas that cause blockages. If the blockages become severe, or if a clot forms that cannot get past the plaque, the heart is starved of blood and a heart attack occurs.




Many distinguished scientists have pointed to serious flaws in this theory, beginning with the fact that heart disease in America has increased during the period when consumption of saturated fat has decreased. "The diet-heart idea," said the distinguished George Mann, "is the greatest scam in the history of medicine."And the chorus of dissidents continues to grow, even as this increasingly untenable theory has been applied to the whole population, starting with lowfat diets for growing children and mass medication with cholesterol-lowering drugs for adults. 




But if it ain't cholesterol, what causes heart disease? We don't know enough to say for sure but we do have many clues; and although these clues present a complicated picture, it is not beyond the abilities of dedicated scientists to unravel them. Nor is the picture so complex that the consumer cannot make reasonable life-style adjustments to improve his chances.











http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/hd.html







quote:

The Cause Of Heart Disease: High Cholesterol or Excess Calcium?

by Eric Jacobson

The cholesterol controversy has been waged now for over five decades. Volumes of books, articles, and journals have been written on the subject of the role cholesterol and diet plays in the arterial disease process.

Since the 1950's the "Lipid Hypothesis," also known as the "Diet-Heart Idea", states that saturated fat and high cholesterol play a major role in the causation of atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease, and gained increasing support from the majority of the medical and scientific communities.

But over the last two decades, with marked advances in science and technology, the most recent research into lipid chemistry and coronary pathology are revealing that the "lipid theory" or "diet-heart" hypothesis might not be as definitive as once thought as being the major cause of coronary heart disease.

In fact, much of the latest research that has been done on cholesterol shows just how vital a role this group of fats, called sterols, really are to every cell, nerve, and major organ of the body.





http://www.newstarget.com/022398.html



quote:



Martin Winn's cholesterol level was inching up. Cycling up hills, he felt chest pain that might have been angina. So he and his doctor decided he should be on a cholesterol-lowering medication called a statin. He was in good company. Such drugs are the best-selling medicines in history, used by more than 13 million Americans and an additional 12 million patients around the world, producing $27.8 billion in sales in 2006. Half of that went to Pfizer (PFE) for its leading statin, Lipitor. Statins certainly performed as they should for Winn, dropping his cholesterol level by 20%. "I assumed I'd get a longer life," says the retired machinist in Vancouver, B.C., now 71. But here the story takes a twist. Winn's doctor, James M. Wright, is no ordinary family physician. A professor at the University of British Columbia, he is also director of the government-funded Therapeutics Initiative, whose purpose is to pore over the data on particular drugs and figure out how well they work. Just as Winn started on his treatment, Wright's team was analyzing evidence from years of trials with statins and not liking what it found. 




Yes, Wright saw, the drugs can be life-saving in patients who already have suffered heart attacks, somewhat reducing the chances of a recurrence that could lead to an early death. But Wright had a surprise when he looked at the data for the majority of patients, like Winn, who don't have heart disease. He found no benefit in people over the age of 65, no matter how much their cholesterol declines, and no benefit in women of any age. He did see a small reduction in the number of heart attacks for middle-aged men taking statins in clinical trials. But even for these men, there was no overall reduction in total deaths or illnesses requiring hospitalization—despite big reductions in "bad" cholesterol. "Most people are taking something with no chance of benefit and a risk of harm," says Wright. Based on the evidence, and the fact that Winn didn't actually have angina, Wright changed his mind about treating him with statins—and Winn, too, was persuaded. "Because there's no apparent benefit," he says, "I don't take them anymore."




Wait a minute. Americans are bombarded with the message from doctors, companies, and the media that high levels of bad cholesterol are the ticket to an early grave and must be brought down. Statins, the message continues, are the most potent weapons in that struggle. The drugs are thought to be so essential that, according to the official government guidelines from the National Cholesterol Education Program (NCEP), 40 million Americans should be taking them. Some researchers have even suggested—half-jokingly—that the medications should be put in the water supply, like fluoride for teeth. Statins are sold by Merck (MRK) (Mevacor and Zocor), AstraZeneca (AZN) (Crestor), and Bristol-Myers Squibb (BMY) (Pravachol) in addition to Pfizer. And it's almost impossible to avoid reminders from the industry that the drugs are vital. A current TV and newspaper campaign by Pfizer, for instance, stars artificial heart inventor and Lipitor user Dr. Robert Jarvik. The printed ad proclaims that "Lipitor reduces the risk of heart attack by 36%...in patients with multiple risk factors for heart disease."




So how can anyone question the benefits of such a drug?




For one thing, many researchers harbor doubts about the need to drive down cholesterol levels in the first place. Those doubts were strengthened on Jan. 14, when Merck and Schering-Plough (SGP) revealed results of a trial in which one popular cholesterol-lowering drug, a statin, was fortified by another, Zetia, which operates by a different mechanism. The combination did succeed in forcing down patients' cholesterol further than with just the statin alone. But even with two years of treatment, the further reductions brought no health benefit.






http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_04/b4068052092994.htm


< Message edited by Level -- 1/19/2008 7:28:36 PM >


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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 7:56:30 PM   
pahunkboy


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funny you should post this. Lipitor was killing me.  if you are on any cho med- make sure you follow up with the needed blood work.

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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 7:58:50 PM   
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BTW- i beleive in real butter and milk. not margarine which is one chemical away from plastic.  tho in moderation. funny all the pills i ever consumed and fricken lipitor was frying my liver!!!![none of any other med]

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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 8:00:10 PM   
lauren0221


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Thanks for posting this, Level. Funnily enough, it seems our best interests (and health) are not always the motivation for marketing a particular drug.

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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 8:03:26 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

funny you should post this. Lipitor was killing me.  if you are on any cho med- make sure you follow up with the needed blood work.


Yes, doing labs to check things out is important, but it'd be better to never put the statin in your body to begin with, IMO.

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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 8:07:30 PM   
missjan


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i am on Lipitor...

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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 8:09:48 PM   
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Very interesting.  I've been convinced for a long time that it's trans fats and high triglycerides that contribute to heart disease.  I find this article pretty convincing:

http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/saturated_fat1.htm

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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 8:11:31 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lauren0221

Thanks for posting this, Level. Funnily enough, it seems our best interests (and health) are not always the motivation for marketing a particular drug.


My pleasure, lauren. The statin whores and Big Pharma are at least as interested in their bank accounts as they are anything.

quote:

The notion that the pharmaceutical industry fiddles with drug studies is one that I harp on constantly. Sometimes they fiddle with the data interpretation process, but more commonly they commit what amounts to lies of omission.
Here’s what most do. If a drug company spends millions of dollars to sponsor a study designed to show that Drug X reduces inflammation and finds when all the data is assessed at the end that Drug X does indeed reduce inflammation to some extent, then you can bet that the company will rush the study in to print. But if this study instead of showing improvement shows that Drug X doesn’t help reduce inflammation or, horror of horrors, actually makes it worse, odds are that the company won’t publish the study.

We end up with a situation in which mainly positive studies get published. These positive studies then lend a aura of efficacy that really doesn’t exist to most of the drugs out there. No one can really point to studies nay saying the drugs in question since those studies were never published.

Yesterdays New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) outed this execrable practice, at least as it applies to studies of antidepressant drugs. As reported in the New York Times:


http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/big-pharmas-sins-of-omission


quote:

After the Enhance study came out Katie Couric interviewed Dr. Steve Nissen, a statinator of renown.

Although Dr. Nissen, who is the Chairman of Cardiology at the Cleveland Clinic, is upset over the findings of the Enhance study, it hasn’t dimmed his enthusiasm for statin drugs a whit. As you watch the video, note the quotes I’ve excerpted. They demonstrate how a famous cardiologist is firmly in the grip of the lipid hypothesis despite considerable evidence that the hypothesis has been built on a very shaky foundation.


http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/a-statinator-speaks


quote:

For decades, the theory that lowering cholesterol is always beneficial has been a core principle of cardiology. It has been accepted by doctors and used by drug makers to win quick approval for new medicines to reduce cholesterol.

But now some prominent cardiologists say the results of two recent clinical trials have raised serious questions about that theory — and the value of two widely used cholesterol-lowering medicines, Zetia and its sister drug, Vytorin. Other new cholesterol-fighting drugs, including one that Merck hopes to begin selling this year, may also require closer scrutiny, they say.

“The idea that you’re just going to lower LDL and people are going to get better, that’s too simplistic, much too simplistic,” said Dr. Eric J. Topol, a cardiologist and director of the Scripps Translational Science Institute in La Jolla, Calif. LDL, or low-density lipoprotein, is the so-called bad cholesterol, in contrast to high-density lipoprotein, or HDL.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/business/17drug.html?_r=1&oref=slogin



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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 8:13:10 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missjan

i am on Lipitor...


Hi jan. I genuinely hope you look through the articles in this thread then.

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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 8:17:31 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

Very interesting.  I've been convinced for a long time that it's trans fats and high triglycerides that contribute to heart disease.  I find this article pretty convincing:

http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/saturated_fat1.htm


Hi proud. Yes, that's an excellent article. Dr Enig and Miss Fallon know their stuff (as does Dr Mercola).

Ancel Keys did us no favor with his 7 countries study.......

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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 8:31:15 PM   
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For anyone wanting to improve their health, to learn how the idea of "fat = bad" got rooted in our society, and what the truth may be, read this book: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/104-8211248-8739951?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=gary+taubes

It's not a "diet" book, the author isn't some shill out to sell a line of supplements. He's a 3-time winner of the Science in Society Journalism award.

“Gary Taubes's Good Calories, Bad Calories is easily the most important book on diet and health to be published in the past one hundred years. It is clear, fast-paced and exciting to read, rigorous, authoritative, and a beacon of hope for all those who struggle with problems of weight regulation and general health--as who does not? If Taubes were a scientist rather than a gifted, resourceful science journalist, he would deserve and receive the Nobel Prize in Medicine.”

-Richard Rhodes, winner of the Pulitzer Prize

“If Taubes were inclined to sensationalism, he might have titled this book ‘The Great Low-Fat Diet Hoax.’ Instead, he tackles the subject with the seriousness and scientific insight it deserves, building a devastating case against the low-fat, high-carb way of life endorsed by so many nutrition experts in recent years. With diabetes and heart disease at stake as well as obesity, those ‘experts’ owe us an abject apology.”
-Barbara Ehrenreich

Good Calories, Bad Calories is a remarkable accomplishment. From a mountain of diverse scientific evidence Gary Taubes has drawn an amazingly detailed and compelling picture of how diet, obesity, and heart disease link together–and how some of the world’s most important medical researchers got the story colossally wrong. Taubes proves, I think beyond doubt, that the dietary advice we’ve been given for the last three decades by the federal government and the major medical bodies rests on, shall we say, a slender empirical base.”
–Charles C. Mann, author of 1491

“A brave and bold science journalist . . . Taubes does not bow to the current fashion for narrative nonfiction, instead building his argument case by case . . . much of what Taubes relates will be eye-opening.”
-The New York Times Book Review

“A watershed . . . Deeply researched and profoundly unsettling, the book proposes a seismic paradigm shift that could well undo our perceptions about the relationship between food and health. It could also literally change the way you eat, the way you look and how long you live . . . an unwavering challenge to conventional thinking . . . Taubes’ most elegant and surprising arguments examine long-held assumptions . . . lucid and lively.”
-Star Tribune

A pair of articles he has written:
 
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E2D61F3EF934A35754C0A9649C8B63&sec=health
 
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/taubes.html



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Fake the heat and scratch the itch
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Let go it's harder holding on
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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 8:50:08 PM   
lilsubl


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a couple of years ago, i went to a doctor for a DOT physical...this was a doctor who regularly did these types of physicals...i was surprised when  they told me they wanted a fasting cholesterol level drawn, because this is not a DOT requirement...of course, he told me that my cholesterol was much too high & that i needed to take meds for it...i told him that i preferred to maintain my liver health & refused the prescription...he told me i was stupid...yep, actually used that wording...

i have long believed that there is merely a casual connection between high cholesterol levels in the blood & heart disease...i have never believed that reducing dietary cholesterol could affect serum cholesterol levels, & this has been proven now by a number of scientific studies...however, since it was drummed into people's heads that we needed to cut out dietary cholesterol, i have yet to meet anyone else who believes that...perhaps i simply hang with the wrong people...

my brother-in-law is very healthy, very low body fat, exercises regularly & has an amazingly high serum cholesterol level...a few years back, i gained 100 lbs from a medication that i was on for a short time & my doctor wanted to do a complete physical on me, including cholesterol & triglycerides, etc...the look of shock on her face as she read my lab results was priceless...she told me that i had the cholesterol & triglycerides of a triathlete........

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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 8:59:19 PM   
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quote:

Hypercholesterolemia is the health issue of the 21st century. It is actually an invented disease, a "problem" that emerged when health professionals learned how to measure cholesterol levels in the blood. High cholesterol exhibits no outward signs--unlike other conditions of the blood, such as diabetes or anemia, diseases that manifest telltale symptoms like thirst or weakness--hypercholesterolemia requires the services of a physician to detect its presence. Many people who feel perfectly healthy suffer from high cholesterol--in fact, feeling good is actually a symptom of high cholesterol!


Doctors who treat this new disease must first convince their patients that they are sick and need to take one or more expensive drugs for the rest of their lives, drugs that require regular checkups and blood tests. But such doctors do not work in a vacuum--their efforts to convert healthy people into patients are bolstered by the full weight of the US government, the media and the medical establishment, agencies that have worked in concert to disseminate the cholesterol dogma and convince the population that high cholesterol is the forerunner of heart disease and possibly other diseases as well.

Who suffers from hypercholesterolemia? Peruse the medical literature of 25 or 30 years ago and you’ll get the following answer: any middle-aged man whose cholesterol is over 240 with other risk factors, such as smoking or overweight. After the Cholesterol Consensus Conference in 1984, the parameters changed; anyone (male or female) with cholesterol over 200 could receive the dreaded diagnosis and a prescription for pills. Recently that number has been moved down to 180. If you have had a heart attack, you get to take cholesterol-lowering medicines even if your cholesterol is already very low--after all, you have committed the sin of having a heart attack so your cholesterol must therefore be too high. The penance is a lifetime of cholesterol-lowering medications along with a boring lowfat diet. But why wait until you have a heart attack? Since we all labor under the stigma of original sin, we are all candidates for treatment. Current edicts stipulate cholesterol testing and treatment for young adults and even children.



http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/statin.html
 


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Skinned up knees and salty lips
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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 9:04:03 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lilsubl

a couple of years ago, i went to a doctor for a DOT physical...this was a doctor who regularly did these types of physicals...i was surprised when  they told me they wanted a fasting cholesterol level drawn, because this is not a DOT requirement...of course, he told me that my cholesterol was much too high & that i needed to take meds for it...i told him that i preferred to maintain my liver health & refused the prescription...he told me i was stupid...yep, actually used that wording...

i have long believed that there is merely a casual connection between high cholesterol levels in the blood & heart disease...i have never believed that reducing dietary cholesterol could affect serum cholesterol levels, & this has been proven now by a number of scientific studies...however, since it was drummed into people's heads that we needed to cut out dietary cholesterol, i have yet to meet anyone else who believes that...perhaps i simply hang with the wrong people...

my brother-in-law is very healthy, very low body fat, exercises regularly & has an amazingly high serum cholesterol level...a few years back, i gained 100 lbs from a medication that i was on for a short time & my doctor wanted to do a complete physical on me, including cholesterol & triglycerides, etc...the look of shock on her face as she read my lab results was priceless...she told me that i had the cholesterol & triglycerides of a triathlete........


Good for you and your brother-in-law, lilsub  Doctors usually do the best they can, but they are just as fallible as the rest of us.

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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/19/2008 9:04:11 PM   
popeye1250


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I  tried 3 or 4 of those statin drugs and had nothing but side effects.
I take Lecithin ,it cleans out the arteries like drano.
I've read things by different authors (M.D.s) who also said that cholesterol isn't the cause of heart attacks and strokes but that plaque buildup in the arteries is.
That's why I excercise and take Lecithin. You can get it in drugstores, GNC, online etc.


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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/20/2008 6:00:04 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I  tried 3 or 4 of those statin drugs and had nothing but side effects.
I take Lecithin ,it cleans out the arteries like drano.
I've read things by different authors (M.D.s) who also said that cholesterol isn't the cause of heart attacks and strokes but that plaque buildup in the arteries is.
That's why I excercise and take Lecithin. You can get it in drugstores, GNC, online etc.



2 things one CAN do.  Poppy seeds- sprinkle them on sandwihich or salads. 2. cranberry. i buy the dried ones and use em like a trail mix.  these 2 deal w/ cholestralal.

All the cho rxs are the same-ish. they all can harm the liver. funny thing is- i had no clue of it. i felt good.  my body has been a casino-- fricken lipitor!

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RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/20/2008 7:31:36 AM   
Termyn8or


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Surprise surprise, today I am not talking about corporate greed, well at least in this post.

For about fifteen years I have been interested in health issues, and anything alternative is kind of a turn on for me because I know mainstream is failing. But that does not mean that which is alternative is gospel. You must take each little ort of information and chew is up very thoroughly before swallowing.

Before my Mother's bypass surgery I saw the scans that showed the blockage, it was there for sure. Poor little heart pretty much couldn't breathe. Actually she's got a big heart, but I do not mean enlarged.

At any rate there was stuff clogging up the arteries (or veins ?). The whole controvwersy seems to be just how it got there.

If my opinion were considered a platform, I guess it would be a good idea to define some of the planks.

First of all Americans do not eat right. Most Americans do not even know how to eat right, and I include myself in that. I may know better than some, but as far as I am concerned I am still learning.

There are certain things in the typical American diet that are harmful. We are not being told about it. People will keep eating whatever tastes good. This is an immature attitude, yet quite prevelant.

Because of deficiencies, certain things that are supposed to be good for you are not, because as they fail to combine with the things in which you are deficient, they will wind up somewhere.

OK, the first, that one might have something to do with money. But I just do not want to go into that aspect of it right now. But the food pyramid is a joke, you might as well model your tomb after it, because you'll be needing it. They are full of shit and have been for decades. The proof is abound. Look around the world and simply count up how many prescription drugs are taken by older people in any given society. Where does Americsa rank ?

One of the first and foremost things that many have lost sight of is what they may have taught you in grade school, that the human body is a marvelous machine that can repair itself. That has somehow been lost in the shuffle.

For any machine to work it needs the proper fuel. Try an analogy to a car engine. Runs on gasoline right ? Well a few other things are required, oil and coolant. Run out of either and the gas is useless because the engine will die. It is that simple, but then, formulation of these essentials is the problem, in fact even defining these essentials for the human body has been the subject of much research, much of it misguided. We eat way too much carbs, and that subject could stand on it's own as a whole seperate post.

Don't get me wrong, if you are, say, a bricklayer, eat some carbs. But the computer progerammer should limit intake. If you burn it off, fine, but if not there is only one way to avoid becoming a tub of lard, eat less. But then the computer programmer's body has the same chemical processes' going on inside as the bricklayer's.

So there is a base level of all the essentials that everyone needs. And what people do not recognize is that for example, while it would be OK for the bricklayer, or other similarly active preson, to have a couple of baked potatoes with cheese and who knows what all over them, the computer programmer is better off opting for a salad.

Now this thread is on cholesterol, this is not a hijack. Real quick - calcium. If your body does not get the proper co nutrients to properly absorb and metabolise calcium you get kidney stones, gallstones, the key word here is stones. They are calcium, and the good doctor would of course swear you off of calcium. No more milk, not more this and no more that, when calcium is, at the time, something your body most likely needs very badly. Not that you haven't been getting any, it's that the things calcium is suposed to combine with to do it's job in the body are not there, kapeesh ?

So the correct answer would follow that the solution is not to remove the calcium, which noone can argue is not an essential nutrient, but instead to give the body what it needs to properly absorb and metabolise, to actually put this calcium to good use.

Sounds logical no ?

Now I put forth officially, the theory that the cholesterol situation is a very similar problem. Cholesterol is made of the building blocks of life. So is fat. Some people think you should eat no fat, but that is the fast track to an early grave, as it is supposedly common knowledge that certain essential nutrients are fat soluble and/or require the presence of fat for proper absorption.

People think that is eat fat you get fat, that is not true. You are eating the stored energy of the animal, as long as you use it up it should be no problem.

Good fats and bad fat is an issue of course, but many do not know which is which. In my well considered opinion, bacon grease is better that shortening. Evidence ? [this should illustrate my thought process in this matter quite well].

How long has shortening been in existence ? How long has bacon and bacon grease been in existence ? When hydrogenated oils were invented, there were people on this planet correct ? Get my drift ?

Down to the core, there are things that get me. I look at what people drink. This stuff is blue. I dunno about you, but I have a bit of an aversion to eating and drinking things that are blue, with the notable exception of blueberries, not that I have had any lately. Decades ago they had a bunch of different drinks, like orange drinks, even without any orange in them, that meant the color. But the point is that back then it seemed that they would model an artificial product to at least look like something natural. Now apparently they do not have to do that. That is what the consumers have become.

Crisco in the can replaced lard, margarine replaced butter. Table salt no longer clumps up in the shaker (covered in a different post) and people think the less fat on their meat the better.

Has it helped ?

Draw your own conclusions, but plug this in : I believe that while it is important to look into what we eat as the source of physical problems, I believe it is equally important, at least, to look into what we do not eat. What we fail to eat, things we should eat, to provide those (coin) conutrients which are actually simply nutrients. Ones that many do not get.

T

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/20/2008 7:40:49 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
Ok well said.

Protein.   Sugar.  Salt.  fiber.  vitamins.   quite simple really.

when u shop buy not the pretty package. you dont eat the package so tune it out.

drinking wter. buy now the board is sick of me preaching water. well guess what? hints of the 6 pack abs are showing on me!!!  No joke.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/20/2008 7:56:24 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
A lot of good info in your post, T.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Cholesterol and statins - 1/20/2008 8:01:54 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

A lot of good info in your post, T.


I love T. He posts interesting posts.  :-)

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 20
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