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Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acciden... - 1/12/2008 4:15:08 PM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline 		"In the aftermath of the San Francisco Zoo tragedy, we're asking the wrong questions. A tiger attacked three people, and we're at a loss to understand why. That's because we completely misunderstand predators.

True, if you taunt a tiger, you should prepare for natural selection to do its work. But tigers don't attack because they're angry. Tigers don't attack because they are mean. Tigers attack because they are tigers.
Like all predators, tigers love nothing in this world more than to hunt—to stalk, to chase, to spring. A kitten playing with a ball of string is doing the same thing. For a predator, hunting is the most essential and rewarding of all pleasures.

And Tatiana? She probably didn't mean to hurt anyone. That people were hurt was incidental. What Tatiana wanted—what all tigers want, what all predators want—was not to kill, not to eat—she was well-fed at the zoo—but to hunt. It's what predators do.
Falconers—folks who hunt with the predatory birds—know all about this. In the elaborate lexicon of falconry, there is a word that addresses this instinctive hunting desire: yarak. At the New Hampshire School of Falconry, my instructor Nancy Cowan said yarak doesn't have a precise definition. It might come from the Persian word for power or strength—or from the Turkic for the right heat for tempering metal. But falconers know what it means—and what you do about it.

Yarak is the often explosive build-up of hunting drive. The falconer ignores it at his peril. Otherwise, your bird might fly at your face with her talons. Not that she's hungry or angry. She's frustrated, deprived of her chance to chase."

... from:  http://www.livingonearth.org/shows/segments.htm?programID=08-P13-00002&segmentID=8

Personally, I’d rather allow and SEE a zoo-ed tiger chase and eat it’s dinner than watch them eat beef we raise and slaughter inhumanly anyway…and we do.
 
I have not heard what exactly happened at the Zoo…but knowing young men (especially young men today) I have my suspicions. 
 
What say you?  How are we to know predators?
 
And…as an aside; is there a connection with this yarak and the behavior of many new submissives?  <smiles>
 
MsB

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/12/2008 4:39:39 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		If I were a zoo tiger and got lose I probably would try to kill as many people as I could...Seems pretty reasonable to me.  Tigers see us as  food.

I agree ms Bearlee, it would be better to feed them live food in zoos, goats/sheep, ect.  But Animal rights/PC weenies would go nuts.  A few years back some fools up here jumped into the Polar bear exhibit at our zoo, barley escaped with thier lives.  Even a moose can kill a man if provoked.

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/12/2008 4:55:51 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		We are not seen as food by tigers. Healthy tigers rarely attack people. This does appear to be a combination of natural hunting instinct too long denied and a too low wall that the tiger just plain got over.

The problem with feeding zoo predators live prey is two fold. First is that you would have to take the animal off display somehow because of the inevitable whining if people saw a tiger hunting and killing a "cute" deer or "helpless" goat. Second of course is these animals are difficult or impossible to replace and live prey tends to fight back and sometimes do cause fatal injuries to predators. I know that the various snakes and other animals that simply won't take dead food are usually fed stunned prey which constrictors don't mind but wouldn't alleviate that hunting instinct in a lion or tiger.

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/12/2008 5:16:33 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Tigers do eat people though.  We are not thier main or prefered food, but we are indeed food.  Googling  http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/maneating11.html I got a number that only 3 out of 1000 tigers will try to kill a man, but that is one of the largest predators of Humans that exists.  Other animals kill people: snakes, bears ect, but do not eat them.  The site notes that on a per capita basis Alaskan Grizzlies kill as many people, but because they don't like people, not to eat them.  There are hundreds of Andecotal stories of Bear attacks where the bear bites out a chunck of flesh, chews it, spits it out, and walks away.  Tigers (albiet usually sick or one with problems)  develop a taste for human flesh, and it is a problem that villagers living in Tiger lands have had to deal with for thousands of years.

Sometimes man-eaters are moved into reserves, though the success of this is often minimal, with the newly introduced cat getting killed when crossing into the territory of an existing tiger.
But the Sundarbans is already a reserve and different options have had to be tried in an attempt to discourage these tigers attacking people. If there are a number of theories as to why the Bengals of the Sundarbans attack man, there are even more ideas on how to re-train them.
Idea 1 - WEARING MASKS:
This simple, yet strange idea was first tested in 1986. Tigers almost always attack from the rear, so the thought was a mask worn on the back of the head would confuse the tigers enough to prevent attacks.
The Indian government issued groups of workers with masks, and surprisingly, the idea worked. After a year no attacks had been reported upon those with masks, whilst thirty people not using the new system had been attacked and killed. It was noted that tigers followed some mask wearers for many hours, but without attack. In one later fatal attack on a mask wearer the tiger attacked from the side rather than the rear.
Villagers were always pessimistic about the long term effectiveness of the practice, saying that the tiger would soon learn the trick and attacks resume. Unfortunately, they were correct and though the system is still used, it is with decreasing effectiveness.

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/12/2008 8:26:28 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I took a tour of the Honolulu Zoo backstage area years ago.  They have two fabulous Asian tigers.  One of the kid's projects they have is to build a goat-shaped pinata, which the keepers fill with chickens (dead) and leave for the tigers to pounce on.  The keeper said it took the female tiger a good two seconds from seeing goat to nailing goat.  Same tiger also looked at toddlers with the same, "hmmm. snacks" expression.  She was wild caught as an adult, and there was much respect of her powers.  Her male companion was raised from cubdom, and was far easier to placate. 

Even if people are not the main food of a predator---and I think it is only polar bears and tigers who are on record as actually hunting people for food, as opposed to attacking them because they feel threatened---a frustrated animal is going to behave like itself.  Personally,  I consider it a miracle that orcas don't kill more human trainers, but I have heard some discussions of whale culture that go a long way toward explaining that.



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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/12/2008 8:31:50 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee
I have not heard what exactly happened at the Zoo…but knowing young men (especially young men today) I have my suspicions. 


Well, let's see.  Empty bottle of liquor found in their car.  Reported as belligerent, uncooperative and incoherent of speech when they were rescued by the police.  Refusing to give their names to the police.  A shoe and other foreign material inside the enclosure.  Muddy prints on the fence.  Hmmm.  Not real hard to do the math here. 

< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 1/12/2008 8:32:15 PM >

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/12/2008 9:12:25 PM   
HaveRopeWillBind


Posts: 514
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Status: offline 		I also heard one news report that said slingshots were involved. I doubt any tiger, no matter how tame, would put up with that for long without striking back.

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/13/2008 6:09:50 AM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline 		Yes, I’d heard a bit about the shoe, and then that there was no shoe…and nothing of drinking or a sling-shot.  That’s why I said I didn’t know exactly what happened.  Heck…unless I went and measured the fence myself; what would I believe…that it is 18 feet or that it is 12?  <shrugs>
 
While I think what happened was unconscionable from many fronts, my question was twofold:
 
How is do you believe we should come to ‘know’ predators?  It’s evident we are going to have zoos, but perhaps they should be bigger so that the animal CAN behave like a predator…so that this yarak is addressed.  Perhaps there are ways, much like the ‘rabbit’ used to train running animals or the wing used to train birding dogs?  Perhaps that goat-thang is a great idea.  They have come up with excellent ways to ‘entertain’ primates…and their health was greatly improved.  Why not predators?
 
Secondly…considering yarak: We all chuckle or become seriously impatient with submissives who go so far overboard that they loose their submissiveness (if they ever really had it) and become caricatures of their fantasies.  Perhaps there is some ‘drive’ that, when not addressed or allowed to build-up explodes in that ridiculous, over-the-top behavior. 
 
LOL   Was just a thought…and somewhat tongue in cheek, at that.
 
MsB

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This one, as well!

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/13/2008 7:15:01 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Chuckles... 'yarak' is Turkish all right, but any austringer should know that it has nothing to do with metal...wood maybe.

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/13/2008 7:53:26 AM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline 		Well, if some fool throws and slings things at me and continues such behavior
as pure torment, (uninvited of course) I will at some point get out of my cage
and kick their fucking ass. As far as eating them, ack, humans leave a bad
aftertaste and most always give you the runs. (so I've been told)

chia* grrrrrr (the pet)

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/13/2008 8:39:09 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I am sure my views will be in the minority here. I believe humans think we are different or special in some way compared to other animals…at least when it comes to emotions like love and hate.

I believe animals experience the exact same emotions we do… therefore there are angry…mean… vindictive tigers just as there are mean dogs, moles and bees.

As animals we may react to those emotions differently but I think we all have the same ones.
Butch

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/13/2008 8:50:18 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Ummm..."incoherent speech"?  How many people would speak coherently after being mauled by a tiger?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee
I have not heard what exactly happened at the Zoo…but knowing young men (especially young men today) I have my suspicions. 


Well, let's see.  Empty bottle of liquor found in their car.  Reported as belligerent, uncooperative and incoherent of speech when they were rescued by the police.  Refusing to give their names to the police.  A shoe and other foreign material inside the enclosure.  Muddy prints on the fence.  Hmmm.  Not real hard to do the math here. 


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 1/13/2008 8:51:37 AM >

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/13/2008 8:59:16 AM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I took a tour of the Honolulu Zoo backstage area years ago.  They have two fabulous Asian tigers.  One of the kid's projects they have is to build a goat-shaped pinata, which the keepers fill with chickens (dead) and leave for the tigers to pounce on.  The keeper said it took the female tiger a good two seconds from seeing goat to nailing goat. ... 


Exactly...any predator kept in a cage without the opportunity to chase living things is just gonna do what comes naturally when given the opportunity.  I don't believe in vindictive animals; just natural behavior.
 
Nobody wants to comment on what limiting/subjugating/denying natural behavior does to a submissive huh?  Again, I’m wondering if the response is what we see in the ones we call ‘HNG’s who approach any Dom/me so obviously inappropriately. 
 
B

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This one, as well!

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/13/2008 4:20:58 PM   
liks2plzlf


Posts: 390
Joined: 7/21/2005
Status: offline 		Yeh, I'm stupid. What is an HNG?

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/13/2008 9:06:03 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Ummm..."incoherent speech"?  How many people would speak coherently after being mauled by a tiger?


From what I understand, they were noted as belligerent, uncooperative and incoherent beyond what a police officer might expect for a recent victim of serious trauma.  California cops are used to victims not being 100% calm and articulate, but apparently these guys were  noteworthy in that respect.

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/14/2008 5:27:29 AM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: liks2plzlf

Yeh, I'm stupid. What is an HNG?


liks2, I know you are not stupid.  HNG = Horney Net Geek
 
I am curious about why it is some go so far over the top...and was comparing yarak to that behavior; that coming on too strong and for the most rediculous things is an example of 'submissiveness' denied. 
 
Of course I'm being somewhat tongue in cheek...but it was a thought.   One apparently nobody wants to pick up!  LOL
 
MsB

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This one, as well!

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/14/2008 8:21:50 AM   
liks2plzlf


Posts: 390
Joined: 7/21/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks MsB
         While I am asking questions, what is 420?

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/14/2008 8:23:25 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		That one you're going to have to find out on your own.

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/14/2008 8:26:25 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Eh, who knows.  I'm not aware that California cops have too much experience with tiger maulings.

Eventually, all the facts of this case will be well-known, because there's sure as hell going to be a lawsuit.  Until then, all we're getting is a lot of speculation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Ummm..."incoherent speech"?  How many people would speak coherently after being mauled by a tiger?


From what I understand, they were noted as belligerent, uncooperative and incoherent beyond what a police officer might expect for a recent victim of serious trauma.  California cops are used to victims not being 100% calm and articulate, but apparently these guys were  noteworthy in that respect.

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RE: Born to Be Wild - 'Yarak' and that recent Tiger acc... - 1/14/2008 8:32:42 AM   
MsBearlee


Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: liks2plzlf

Thanks MsB
       While I am asking questions, what is 420?



I can answer that one cuz I asked it myself recently.  420 = marijuana
 
Apparently it comes from the ‘fact’ that schools across the country let out at 4:20…and that’s exactly the time kids break out the pot!    Who knew?  LOL
 
Miss B,
School teacher (not)

edited to add:  Why IS it nobody is picking up on MY question?  hummmmmmm...?

< Message edited by MsBearlee -- 1/14/2008 8:33:46 AM >

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This one, as well!

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