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Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/10/2008 1:28:34 PM   
JBristol


Posts: 35
Joined: 1/27/2007
From: Bristol
Status: offline 		As a relative newcomer to the scene, im having trouble reconciling limits with submission. Apart from children, im not  sure (with the right chemistry/person) what i wouldnt do. Sure there are plenty of things that i wouldnt 'like' to do, but i am a sub and yearn to submit to my Mistress.
i love Prolonged facesitting/body worship, but if  play was based solely around that, i might have a huge grin on my face, but it would hardly be submitting.,
i want a Domme that will constantly challenge my  preconceived wants, preconceptions and constantly give me new opportunities to explore and expand my submission.
And limits would just seem to..............Well, limit the possibilities!!!
( im talking purely within a relationship here) Obviously safety is taken as a given, but When your Domme has trust, empathy and understanding of/with their sub, Surely She is the one who should decide what goes? and for me what better way of showing your devotion to your Mistress than submitting to the things that make me feel uncomfortable or off balance? After all how humiliating is something if you love to do it anyway?
i will always remember the first time i worshipped a Womans feet. for me i had never had a foot fetish, and to be honest didnt really like feet that much at all, but the act of kneeling and putting my lips to the soles of her feet was one of the most intense feelings i had ever had, that is when i KNEW i was a sub, (and doomed!!!) it wasnt about what i was doing, it was about the act of submitting to her will.

Anyway, babbling way to much, so would love to hear other more experienced peoples thoughts on this.

Ty

jason

< Message edited by JBristol -- 1/10/2008 1:36:20 PM >
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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/10/2008 1:41:24 PM   
darchChylde


Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline 		well, in negotiation you should have the right to list those things that you would not do... there are several checklists floating around, and i'm sure that there are at least a few things on that list that you could never see yourself as doing (these usually have a scale from "love it" to "never" like the interest section of your profile)... of course a dominant is within their rights to say that something is a deal-breaker and that if you refuse to comply then you need to move on... many limits aren't about what you don't like, but things that you honestly fear can cause great emotional distress

the way i look at limits is that (except for a few exceptions like children, animals and scat) i don't pick a limit because i don't like it (personally i hate ice, the sound look and feel of it absolute squicks me on many different levels; but it's not a limit just because i don't like it), but only about things that i either seriously can't stand, but also take me to a very bad place... of course a dominant may choose to push and stretch those limits, but a responsible dominant will not break them... remember, being a submissive or slave does not mean that you are not human

two last words of advice:  remember that your limits can change and thus a contract can be renegotiated; it is good for both parties to regularly review a contract and limits on a regular basis

and finally, never... i mean NEVER tell a dominant or sadist that you have NO limits... you will soon find that you were mistaken

< Message edited by darchChylde -- 1/10/2008 1:42:43 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/10/2008 1:56:20 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Even limits that are physical -- let's say you have bad knees so kneeling more than a few minutes is very painful, or you have a bad back so you can't lift things over 20 pounds -- need to b e spelled out because very person is different.

Don't assume that what is illegal will be a limit for everyone, state those limits too as well as things you consider outside your moral and ethics codes.

Things that make you react negatively but which aren't hard limits you can put as soft limits. This helps send the message that even though you aren't turned on by them you are cool with exploring them over time in a relationship.

Saying "I don't have limits" risks two things in my experience.

First, you won't be taken seriously as a potential. Anyone who says that to my face is normal told "Great, wait here while I go get my chainsaw" -- I stole that response from a male dom friend of mine.

Second, you might attract those folks who may say they are doing BDSM but really are most interested in abuse.

Figuring out your limits is a process and they will change over time and with different people.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/10/2008 2:26:52 PM   
JBristol


Posts: 35
Joined: 1/27/2007
From: Bristol
Status: offline 		First, you won't be taken seriously as a potential. Anyone who says that to my face is normal told "Great, wait here while I go get my chainsaw" -- I stole that response from a male dom friend of mine.

LOL, TY, will remember this one!

Second, you might attract those folks who may say they are doing BDSM but really are most interested in abuse.

Figuring out your limits is a process and they will change over time and with different people.


i understandand your point,  Which you and darchClyde make and agree with you tammyjo, but i am talking about once within a strong relationship where the trust has been built. Not initial contacts

and can someone pls tell me how to do that "Quotation" thing?


< Message edited by JBristol -- 1/10/2008 2:36:02 PM >

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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/10/2008 2:40:21 PM   
darchChylde


Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JBristol

i understandand your point,  Which you and darchClyde make and agree with you tammyjo, but i am talking about once within a strong relationship where the trust has been built. Not initial contacts

and can someone pls tell me how to do that "Quotation" thing?



so are we, nomatter how it may seem; being a Dominant does not give one superpowers of telepathy... as Ma'am likes to say, She's not a mindreader... remember, anything that is not specified in a contract is open to the whim of your dominant; and if you don't make it clear that things bother you, your dominant doesn't know what to avoid or take care with... and it's often too late to do so in the midst of a scene: "there is no consent in space" means, among other things, that you might agree to something in subspace that you normally would never consent to; even if you may enjoying it at the time doesn't mean the damage isn't done when you come back to yourself... a misunderstanding such as this can irreparable damage a relationship

at the top right of an individual post you will see three buttons "Reply" "Quote" and "Forward", i think you can figure it out from there

< Message edited by darchChylde -- 1/10/2008 2:43:20 PM >

_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

(in reply to JBristol)
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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/10/2008 2:54:32 PM   
AtlantaMistress


Posts: 276
Joined: 6/14/2007
Status: offline 		Just wanted to add to this - because when training a new sub who does not know his own limits and exploring what/where they are (pain tolerance, etc.) I think that communication is crucial. Trust and communication are required for any REAL relationship vanilla, romance, friendship D/s - any or all of the above. I actually don't use a "safeword" while we are very much in the "learning" stages, because I know a sub may be afraid to use that safeword for fear of disappointing me. It takes time to know each other to the point that you can read someone with non verbal communication, so I like to use a green, yellow, red system instead. Something a sub enjoys - "oh baby" ~SMACK~ but "green Ma'am" when he is really enjoying something I wouldn't otherwise know (often get that one during spankings) is fine; yellow is uncomfortable/caution, and obviously red is stop. At some point, when we know each other enough to read our feelings without words, then you can discuss a safeword. I also like to have my subs journal, which is I think a great way for them to express their feelings, let me know how they liked/disliked our activities, figure out where their mind is at on where we have been, and maybe where I can go in pushing boundaries. This way I can better associate his action/reaction with what he is feeling - without in any way feel like I am being topped from the bottom (do NOT take kindly to that at all). It also adds to the mental aspects, giving me more control and getting me to a point that I am really in their head and helps them to TRULY submit and have a TPE. Also, as a Domme, I have certainly had what I thought were my own boundaries/limits stretched a great deal with experience, and differently with each of my boys. I love when my own experiences because of what a sub has been open to exploring have actually pushed me farther than I would have thought I would have gone and therefore I continue to grow as well! I know this is not necessarily the way many people do things...but then again (read my profile) I am not really "typical" in any sense of the word, and as I have gone along I have been fortunate to somewhat create my own rules to live by

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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/10/2008 4:53:06 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JBristol

First, you won't be taken seriously as a potential. Anyone who says that to my face is normal told "Great, wait here while I go get my chainsaw" -- I stole that response from a male dom friend of mine.

LOL, TY, will remember this one!

Second, you might attract those folks who may say they are doing BDSM but really are most interested in abuse.

Figuring out your limits is a process and they will change over time and with different people.


i understandand your point, Which you and darchClyde make and agree with you tammyjo, but i am talking about once within a strong relationship where the trust has been built. Not initial contacts

and can someone pls tell me how to do that "Quotation" thing?



Depends on the relationship and what you consider limits.

I consider everything that might need to be considered by me in making decisions to be a limit. Therefore I think everyone will always have limits.

However over time two people do get to know each other and the need to state limits or use safewords decreases until they aren't consciously part of the dynamic any more.

Does Fox have limits? Yes, he does but they are so not relevant to our dynamic that we aren't always conscious of them. I don't have to stop myself from doing anal sex with him because I know he can't for physical reasons and psychological reasons -- it just no longer enters my mind most of the time.

That doesn't mean he gave up or grew out of the limits simply that they are built into the dynamic.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/10/2008 5:45:22 PM   
Mizziness


Posts: 34
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: offline 		Also keep in mind that not all limits you should be considering have to do with sexual topics.  If you are in a relationship with a Dom/me, then you should also have a list of what could be considered vanilla limits.  For example, my slave has a limit in his contract that concerns religion (he is Christian and I am Pagan) and we are not permitted to poke fun at each other about that difference.  Asking for alone-time, or if you're allergic to fish, or if you're terrified of heights...all of those things are also valid limits that should be presented if the relationship is not strictly sexual.

_____________________________

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And you're begging, 'Please...'"
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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/10/2008 9:09:11 PM   
Misstoyou


Posts: 1149
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JBristol

...
i love Prolonged facesitting/body worship, but if play was based solely around that, i might have a huge grin on my face, but it would hardly be submitting.,



It is so nice when a submissive recognizes that. It separates the men from the boys, so to speak.


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a.k.a. "mean Lady"


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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/10/2008 9:11:44 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		These long haired boys seem to be rather smart, don't they...  :)

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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/10/2008 9:34:30 PM   
darchChylde


Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

These long haired boys seem to be rather smart, don't they...  :)


healthy follicles stimulate brain activity


_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/10/2008 10:41:05 PM   
JBristol


Posts: 35
Joined: 1/27/2007
From: Bristol
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darchChylde




at the top right of an individual post you will see three buttons "Reply" "Quote" and "Forward", i think you can figure it out from there


DUH  !!!  Got it now, going back to the presumtuous  thread "two out of three aint bad, lol !!!  ty darchClyde.
Atlanta Mistress, ty for post, i think  the ide of a journal is excellent, and something i will definitely take on board.


< Message edited by JBristol -- 1/10/2008 10:48:00 PM >

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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/10/2008 10:44:43 PM   
JBristol


Posts: 35
Joined: 1/27/2007
From: Bristol
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo


However over time two people do get to know each other and the need to state limits or use safewords decreases until they aren't consciously part of the dynamic any more.

Does Fox have limits? Yes, he does but they are so not relevant to our dynamic that we aren't always conscious of them. I don't have to stop myself from doing anal sex with him because I know he can't for physical reasons and psychological reasons -- it just no longer enters my mind most of the time.

That doesn't mean he gave up or grew out of the limits simply that they are built into the dynamic.

ty tammyjo, i think this is what i was trying to get at.




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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/11/2008 3:22:33 AM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JBristol

As a relative newcomer to the scene, im having trouble reconciling limits with submission. Apart from children, im not  sure (with the right chemistry/person) what i wouldnt do. Sure there are plenty of things that i wouldnt 'like' to do, but i am a sub and yearn to submit to my Mistress.



Hi jason

I know they are a bit corny, but fill out a BDSM checklist for yourself and keep it somewhere private.  There's lots of them around.  For example see http://latches.webslaves.com/checklist.htm [I am not endorsing this one is good or bad, its just an example for you to peruse. ]

You could be surprised how many things might - and might not - appeal to you.  Do you agree to be given away permanently?  Have your head shaved?  Be force fed and fattened up?  Tattoo-ed on your face?  Visible branding? Genital/nipple  piercing?  Forced homosexuality?  Urinated on? Cathedarization? etc etc etc

Some people absolutely love these kinks, but do you?

[BTW my sub is great, but I cannot do anal play, pierce, tattoo, share or give him away.  I can live with his limits - and I don't love him any less - although they did surprise me a bit]

When asked, it really helps to be self aware of your potential limits, but have lots of  fun alternatives to suggest (never expect or demand!) when meeting a Mistress.

There's nothing more infuriating IMO than interviewing a potential submissive, asking what he likes/dislikes and being told "ummm.....I will do whatever you want, Mistress."

In other words, the submissive has no idea, expects me to be a mind reader or is avoiding telling the truth in case our kinks are incompatible.  IMO any further discussion is pointless with someone like that.

And the really annoying part is that subs who will not or cannot articulate their desires and limits will often complain later about the Dominant.   Go figure!

So I strongly suggest you take the time to work out what you think you want to try and don't want to try.  Be honest and admit if you don't really know yet.  Exploring limits is part of your personal BDSM journey.  You can always have your mind changed for you later.  In fact, that's half the fun of being a Mistress: demolishing all the previous limits and discovering new ones.

I know it might sound more submissive to say "I will do anything -that is safe and legal- for the Mistress I love and trust", but that really stifles further negotiation (and is not as much fun for Mistress as giving her some boundaries to push  )

PS My personal tip for what it is worth = sharing your truthful BDSM checklist with another person on request is an extremely submissive thing to do.  You bare your soul when you hand those things over.  So don't give it away lightly.  And don't tell fibs in your checklist because they will come back to haunt you

Good luck

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 1/11/2008 3:28:16 AM >

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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/11/2008 8:55:36 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		One thing that I was thinking about when reading the OP is also a need to look at where you're starting out, rather than where you'll end up.  Do you have catagories where the answer is different when you consider an activity when you are just getting to know someone, rather than it being with someone where you've been involved with them for some time?  Just because you are a submissive, doesn't mean you're willing to do everything with everyone.  There might be certain things which are areas that you would consider limits at first, but might be areas where you can be pushed as trust builds and your submission to that particular person is deepened.

The suggestion about doing a checklist is a very good one.  Don't be surprised if not all of your answers are either yes or no.  Those things that you come up with an answer of maybe or not sure are usually the ones that are more interesting and help you to have ideas about those things that you want to explore. 


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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/11/2008 2:53:31 PM   
SayaNereida


Posts: 152
Joined: 7/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

As a relative newcomer to the scene, im having trouble reconciling limits with submission. Apart from children, im not  sure (with the right chemistry/person) what i wouldnt do. Sure there are plenty of things that i wouldnt 'like' to do, but i am a sub and yearn to submit to my Mistress.. ..... i want a Domme that will constantly challenge my  preconceived wants, preconceptions and constantly give me new opportunities to explore and expand my submission.
And limits would just seem to..............Well, limit the possibilities!!!


j,

In my opinion, it is not what you do or do not do that makes you a submissive.

That said, I do understand the thought of limits feel like you are limiting your submission.

I do have a short list of 'there is no way in hell I'll do that' things because it goes against my morals (children, etc.) or turns my stomach (scat play...I support someone's right to do it and enjoy, it just isn't something I would participate in) and luckily, Ryu and I so far have the same 'short list'.

After that list I am 'no limits' with a twist.

What I mean by that is that I am too new and inexperienced to profess limits to things I haven't tried, so our agreement is:  I/we will research anything He has an interest in trying to be able to do it safely, I do things at least once (although most things take a few times to determine your true level of enjoyment because nervousness of trying something new distorts ones perception, at least mine), either of us are free to place it in the limits category but I need more of a reason than "I don't like it" to put it on the list.

I trust Him, so allowing Him the freedom to explore His desires is a given.

Perhaps rather than saying you have no limits, which may be true now, allow yourself the possibility to add limits, should you find you have them.

Saya

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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 1/11/2008 4:55:59 PM   
JBristol


Posts: 35
Joined: 1/27/2007
From: Bristol
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SayaNereida

After that list I am 'no limits' with a twist.

What I mean by that is that I am too new and inexperienced to profess limits to things I haven't tried, so our agreement is:  I/we will research anything He has an interest in trying to be able to do it safely, I do things at least once (although most things take a few times to determine your true level of enjoyment because nervousness of trying something new distorts ones perception, at least mine), either of us are free to place it in the limits category but I need more of a reason than "I don't like it" to put it on the list.

I trust Him, so allowing Him the freedom to explore His desires is a given.

Perhaps rather than saying you have no limits, which may be true now, allow yourself the possibility to add limits, should you find you have them.

Saya



Thank you Saya. i think this best sums up how i feel at present too, but far more eloquently than i managed.

j

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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 2/24/2008 2:17:50 AM   
kalimachild


Posts: 21
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Toledo
Status: offline 		I consider anything that leads to lasting harm to be a limit.  Anything that can kill you (ie alergy) is a limit.  In a long standing relationship, limits become so known and ingrained that you forget they are there.  My brother and sister have a D/s relationship.  The limit that they do not discuss or react to situations in overt D/s manners (ie his eye restrictions when he is correcting her) while the child is present was never formally discussed, but both of them know that it was a hard limit for them.  My sister is alergic to onions, so it's a hard limit that she is not to clean anything what contained onions such as fast food.  My sister also has a hard limit of not spending so much time gaming that it keeps everyone from having a good nights rest.  My brother has a hard limit that people are not to lie to him even if it's what one would call a harmless or white lie.  We all have limits of what we will and won't tolerate in a relationship.  Most of them are not vocalized in a long standing relationsip because both parties know each other and know where they can stretch those limits and where they can't.

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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 2/24/2008 2:53:11 AM   
chezzy52


Posts: 220
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline 		I'll keep it short...communication,communication,communication.

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RE: Limits in a D/s relationship? - 2/24/2008 8:00:21 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		jason ..My life is forever changing, there are things I am learning about, exposed to everyday... I would hope a partner had an equal mind to share of our future and see limitations, rather than limits ... changing, when and if there is a desire too. 

Particularly delectable when the desire to change it is mine rather than his. ;) sue me ... I like to make boys squirm. ..and just because I want them to change it, does not mean I am going to indulge it, now or later... but I do like it, knowing I now have that card up my sleeve ;) teasing him mercilessly about his fate should I dare to actually do it. 

The payoff is his vulnerability .. thats what makes me hot.  If the limit makes me hot as well ...woohoo baby, strap yourself in, we're about to go on a decadently deviant roller coaster ride ...you'll love it! trust me! ;)


_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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