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Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's Poor - 1/4/2008 4:58:48 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		Nobody on the green side has yet to explain how using the world's food sources for fuel makes the earth a better place.

And for those who think the United States and her people are getting theirs via the outrageous and poorly speculated oil prices, think about this....

More half the out put of the entire world's food crops are grown in the United States and most of that in about 15 of the States. The United States is not going to hungry and in fact she will become more powerful, not less so.

The use of Ethanol based fuels takes food from the planet's poorest folks.

Using the poor man's food source for the the rich man's fuel source is beyond immoral.

http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=213343

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 1/4/2008 5:00:04 PM >
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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/4/2008 5:08:25 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Grandma needs to heat her northern home on a fixed income but the Greens won't let anyone drill for the heating oil she needs.

The world's gone mad.


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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/4/2008 5:27:03 PM   
ThinkingKitten


Posts: 447
Joined: 6/15/2006
From: Ontari-ari-o
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

More half the out put of the entire world's food crops are grown in the United States and most of that in about 15 of the States. The United States is not going to hungry and in fact she will become more powerful, not less so.


Hmm.
The beef industry lobby in the US is so strong that they have kept themselves outside the purvey of the Dept of Ag. so E.coli 0157 abounds. Go visit your local feed lot. Look at the environmental destruction around it. My, my. How do they get those cowsies to grow so fast and be so lean? You know the answer.
 
"Sustainable farming". What a dirty little phrase to the chemical industry! Heaven forbid that US farmers should stop drowning their pathetic, overworked, overtilled, overused topsoil in chemicals to sustain the plants they grow on them year after year after year - and destroy watersheds and.... look at the Colorado river for an example.. From mighty glacier runoff to pathetic finger of brown goop all in the matter of a couple of states to irrigate crops ..... But who cares? Those Canajuns have got lots of freshwater, perhaps we should just pipe it down from there .... Cancer? A small price to pay for a full belly day after day, don't you think?
 
Ah, the bulk food processing plant. Take those overchemicalized crops (which may or may not have had their DNA tweaked a bit here or there), process the HELL out of them (did you know that about 70% of the North American population is chronically deficient in magnesium, because it gets destroyed during the food processing "process") to feed the masses.... oh, and to make the food go further, because we've all become so ridiculously greedy we'll bring in goodness-only-knows-what from China to supplement it.... Oh, and cancer and asthma n' stuff. A small price to pay for a full belly don't you agree? Well we know the pharmaceutical companies like it....
 
Bring on the power! Let madness abound!

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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/4/2008 5:44:15 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Other countries raise oil prices on us, we should start raising corn, wheat, soybean, and other agricultural prices on exports.

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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/4/2008 6:03:25 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Actually, most people on "the green side" think using the world's food sources for fuel is a bad idea.

What have you been reading?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Nobody on the green side has yet to explain how using the world's food sources for fuel makes the earth a better place.

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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/4/2008 6:09:21 PM   
BruisedHick


Posts: 123
Joined: 8/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Actually, most people on "the green side" think using the world's food sources for fuel is a bad idea.

What have you been reading?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Nobody on the green side has yet to explain how using the world's food sources for fuel makes the earth a better place.



Ummm...  Nobody has yet to explain it, LaM.  He means everyone already has.

Can't you even read, dude?  The guy lays it out, plain and simple, and you just go and butcher the message!

Yours,


benji

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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/4/2008 6:14:41 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		oh.fuck they aint----------------- benhyamin.
there isnt any reason to fold low corn will save us when hemp will make it, or even stalks left from canola, you are canadian, do you clean up cowshit in some matrix that dont leave you an overage of some type of grass?

Alcoholic


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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/4/2008 6:30:14 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Ever been thirsty after a night of hard drinking?


quote:


California, which can't import enough corn because other states are producing more ethanol, has to grow all of this crop domestically. And let's assume the current trend continues, and corn remains the crop of choice to make ethanol.
So how much water does it take to grow corn? According to a study of California agriculture by the respected Water Education Foundation, it takes about 118 gallons of water to grow a pound of corn. And how many pounds of corn does it take to produce a gallon of ethanol? About 21 pounds of corn, according to one publication from the U.S. Department of Agriculture. So do the multiplication (118 gallons of water per pound of corn, times 21 pounds of corn) to get the water it takes to produce the corn for a gallon of ethanol.
If these numbers are accurate, the answer is about 2,500 gallons of water. For one gallon of ethanol.Gulp.

http://www.sacbee.com/110/story/162586.html


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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/4/2008 6:52:08 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
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Status: offline 		You gotta hand it to the corn lobby.  Mainstream Americans evidently think corn-based ethanol is the "green" solution to the world's energy problems!  That would be like thinking most cardiologists recommend smoking for its ability to reduce stress.

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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/4/2008 6:56:19 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Anything used to make ethanol uses land better suited to feeding the poor. Let the limousine liberals power their fabulous show cars with gasoline from the north slope of Alaska, or off the California or Florida coast. Let Grandma heat her house in the winter while eating too.

Have a heart.

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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/5/2008 2:01:59 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
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Status: offline 		Actually... I think the powers that be in the Green movement would much rather have grandma and all the brown skinned poor to cash it in. Afterall... they do think over population is a bigger threat to mother eath than carbon output.

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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/5/2008 2:10:15 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		- very hungry people dont have the internet

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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/5/2008 2:52:05 PM   
ChainsandFreedom


Posts: 222
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline 		No offenese, but none of you really understand why the world's poor are so hungry, do you?

How we use our extra corn and how Somali's put food on their plates have NOTHING to do with each other.

The world makes more than enough food to feed six billon people already. Most of it rots in big government-owned silo's in the mid-west and europe.

Thats right-the government buys more corn and lets it rot than it gives to other countries as food aid. This is because the government buys excess food crops in order to make sure farmers get a garunteed minimum price on their crops so that they can stay profitable-don't any of you remember the dust bowl and agricultural crisis of the Great Depression from history class? The US makes so much extra corn, it would be worth next to nothing on an open market.

Why are there still hungry people if countries like the US produce enough food to feed them?

Because the World Bank and the G8 want people to produce their own food. They somehow think of giving away extra scraps as handouts and handouts as being worse than chronic starvation. The US would rather see a starving Bannana Republic who grows their own food (or not) than feed the worlds poor so they could concentrate on practicle things like making and buying our TV's. Never mind that a desert or a tundra nation would be better off with factories than farms and all they need is a few years to not starve to build up infastructure.

In short, people only starve because we want them to.

SOOOOOO

Go ahead and make ethanol. You'll save the tax dollars which would otherwise be spent paying for this corn to rot.

If ethanol ever really took off-than MNOTTERTAIL is absolutely right. We would begin using hemp, canola, soy, and other ethanol-producing crops which were more efficiant than corn.

And what is one of the biggest reasons ethanol hasn't taken off? WHY DO THE GREENS HATE ETHANOL? BECAUSE OF CORN.

Because Corn sucks up so much oil-based fertilizier that takes more (oil) energy to make ethanol than the ethanol saves you in the first place.

So the greens would rather do away with as much corn as possible, and replace it with other crops to make ethanol and other crops to feed the cows and chickens that eat most of our corn.

the greens would probably rather be using the Methane already produced by cows to power the farms which cost more to make food because of the rising price of oil for fertalizer and transportation and heat. (think of the power system in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome with Gibson and Tina Turner except that Cornell has already done this with eight local, for-profit farms).

the greens would probably rather give the food we grow in america to starving people and let places like Brazil or the Congo with plenty of plants but not enough to eat simply throw weeds into a vat for Ethanol-Ethanol is like Alchohol, you can make it out of any vegtable, but unlike alchohol it doesnt have to taste good.  

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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/5/2008 4:59:27 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		What LordandMster said. Strawman if there ever was one - meaning more FUD from ADM.

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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/5/2008 7:07:06 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChainsandFreedom

the greens would probably rather be using the Methane


Well then....

As the US also has some of the largest Methane deposits in the world, I wonder how the greens would feel if we started drilling for it in the cold seeps at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico?

BTW...

Are not the greens behind the attmpts to STOP bovine methane?

Oil is beyond plentiful and we should use it until it runs out in about... well never.

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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/5/2008 7:18:16 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Try again, there is no grain rotting in silos anywhere. There are food shortages, and hungry people have been rioting as close by as Mexico.

http://www.google.com/search?q=mexico+riots+corn&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Again, regardless of what is made into ethanol, it is a farmed resource that's being diverted away from the hungriest people - when plentiful oil is available instead, just for the drilling.



quote:

No offenese, but none of you really understand why the world's poor are so hungry, do you?

How we use our extra corn and how Somali's put food on their plates have NOTHING to do with each other.

The world makes more than enough food to feed six billon people already. Most of it rots in big government-owned silo's in the mid-west and europe.


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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/5/2008 7:47:12 PM   
ChainsandFreedom


Posts: 222
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline 		Sanity, did you read my post?
I said there is grain rotting in AMERICAN silo's that isn't being shared with OTHER countries - Not that food shortages in forigen lands mean america has no more corn.

Your linked google search of articles you didn't bother to read don't contradict this. the system is common knowledge in agricultural policy/global sustainability/international development discourses.

If You want to get technical, than the reason Mexican's are rioting for lack of corn is because their public-use, family owned farms were turned into private pastures/food producers for American Meat after NAFTA and Mexicans have to buy their corn at more expensive, privatized economy rates. Some of it's Mexican, some's american, but the price is expensive because their importing a large portion of what they used to grow (cheaply) from the US, a very expensive country to grow things. No shortage, just a price change.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Try again, there is no grain rotting in silos anywhere. There are food shortages, and hungry people have been rioting as close by as Mexico.

http://www.google.com/search?q=mexico+riots+corn&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Again, regardless of what is made into ethanol, it is a farmed resource that's being diverted away from the hungriest people - when plentiful oil is available instead, just for the drilling.



quote:

No offenese, but none of you really understand why the world's poor are so hungry, do you?

How we use our extra corn and how Somali's put food on their plates have NOTHING to do with each other.

The world makes more than enough food to feed six billon people already. Most of it rots in big government-owned silo's in the mid-west and europe.


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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/5/2008 7:56:43 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		"That will be done with more fertilizer, with genetically modified seeds"

So the know it alls are going to cram GM foods down our throats?


And if we don`t eat that crap,we`re dooming others to starve?


Is that the gist?


Most of what Sanity is saying, are myths.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/5/2008 7:59:23 PM >

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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/5/2008 8:11:15 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		You're coming off as very arrogant and elitest, even though you have no good reason to be. First you insinuate that we're all stupid:

quote:

No offenese, but none of you really understand why the world's poor are so hungry, do you?


Then you try to tell me what I've not read, even though you have no way of knowing:

quote:


Your linked google search of articles you didn't bother to read don't contradict this


Yes I have read up on the tortilla riots - and it's obvious to anyone who really looks into it that because of the Green's push for ethanol, and because they work hard to stop any new oil drilling, people are going hungry. The corn shortages are due to the recent boom in ethanol production, and you have yet to present any kind of a  logical argument denying that.

Brazil is growing fuel, America is growing fuel, who isn't growing fuel - it's the latest "Green" craze. It's the politically correct thing to do. And with all the biofuels sucking up farmland production, guess what, food price increases and food shortages are creeping into the headlines.  You're denying what the headlines are screaming at us! Read the link in the OP. Read the links the Google search provides.

There are shortages, there isn't any valuable food rotting anywhere. We provided credible links - you provide hollow denials that you're backing up with nothing but hot air.


< Message edited by Sanity -- 1/5/2008 8:48:29 PM >

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RE: Global Food Crisis Pits Greens Against the World's ... - 1/5/2008 11:10:56 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		Sanity...

You and I both know...

The sad truth is that the useful Idiots of marx and lenin are now serving the greens if for no other reason, than because they hate and despise Capitalism in any form.

The problem is, that the useful idiots, are like walter duranty, infesting the major media of the west. You do not see this in China, or even India for that matter. Those countries can burn as much fossil fuel as they want to and nary a protest nor a peep from the ui in the West. When was the last major protest in front of the Chinese or Indian Embassies for their refusal to be included in Koyoto?  

But the big secret the greens never want to get out is that this is all about population control. And it just so happens that the proper enlighten "stewards" happened to be (for the most part) elitist white people who think they know better than anyone else. After all.... look how they fucked up mother earth... how could they possible let brown and yellow skin people do the same??? No... the enlighten white people must save the world. It's their burden after all.

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 1/5/2008 11:12:16 PM >

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