RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling

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OrionTheWolf -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/4/2008 4:52:28 AM)
Do you mean that majority that excluded a large number of scientist, that had opposing views, from attending conferences on the matter? Peer review is great, when you get to pick your peers. I am still undecided on this whole issue, but the global warming crowd does not do their side any favors when they do things that seem to skew the results. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 "A scientist from Russia" " ~A~ scientist",as in one?lol,As in ~singular~?As in uno?lol And from where?<snickers> Russia?LOL Boy that`s impressive.........................................not. Are you serious? ROTFLMAO Probably has more credentials than Al Gore. Pwobabwy has moe cwedentuouz ,den Al Gore. Awwww.. How clever,..now mature ,how deep...... Does the single Rusky ,have more "cwedentuouz",than the majority of the world`s scientists?

Politesub53 -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/4/2008 5:24:17 AM)
Heres something to consider. Around 2000 years ago the Congo forests were mostly open plains, with just patches of forest. Since then the earth has cooled and the forest has turned into jungle. Types of Deer and Zebra, cleary evolved for open spaces and running, are to be found in dense jungle. Scientists believe they evolved from animals trapped when the jungles and rivers cut them off. Given that the timespan for this is a relatively short 2,000 years, mankind cant be blamed for the change in climate that caused this. Re the dark ages..... This is considered to be the period between Roman rule in Europe and the early middle ages. 500 AD to 1,000 AD.... The mini ice age was around 1,400 to 1,600 ( i think ) Hey dark.... im not talking about your age here [8D]

seeksfemslave -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/4/2008 7:45:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Crush quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave ...Hair shirts, wherever you are , pay attention. The millenium computor bug may bite you ! The Y2k problem was just delayed until around 2024. A lot of the code that needed changed was just patched so that any date before 24 was 2024 but after 24 is 1924, for example. well I thought the bug was caused by allocating only 1 byte to the date and assuming the 19 hundreds so existing declaration size year 1 byte new declarations size newcentury 2 bytes size newyear 2 bytes code if year == 99 newyear = year + 1900 else newyear = year + 2000 endif then change all code occurances of year to newyear Safe for the next 99 years wont that work in Cobol ?

cyberdude611 -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/4/2008 8:13:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Does the single Rusky ,have more "cwedentuouz",than the majority of the world`s scientists? The environmentalists have limited the debate. Scientists who have even questioned the idea of man-made global warming claim to be shut out of conferences, research being rejected, and meterologists are threatened that their licenses will be revoked. They dont want controversy on this topic. In my opinion, the environmentalists have latched on to this issue in order to promote their political goals. They think the only way to solve the pollution problem is to scare the public that the world will end in 50 years unless we change. Pollution is a big problem and no one is denying that. But you cannot use junk science to further your goal. People are not that stupid. The people who are pushing the man is to blame theory reminds me of the religious right trying to shut down scientific research on the orgin of life. They dont want science to trivialize what they consider to be fact. Al Gore claims there is consensus in the scientific world that global warming can be blamed on human activity. There is no consensus on this and in fact, the more research that has been done on this have only exposed holes in Gore's theory. Third variables are being discovered (ie: the crust under Greenland and antartica is very thin and have experienced increase heat from the earth's mantle which is to blame for some of the melted ice). It is proof that we need to do more extensive research on this issue and it isnt as clear cut as the environmentalists believe.

Crush -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/5/2008 10:20:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave quote: ORIGINAL: Crush quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave ...Hair shirts, wherever you are , pay attention. The millenium computor bug may bite you ! The Y2k problem was just delayed until around 2024. A lot of the code that needed changed was just patched so that any date before 24 was 2024 but after 24 is 1924, for example. well I thought the bug was caused by allocating only 1 byte to the date and assuming the 19 hundreds so existing declaration size year 1 byte new declarations size newcentury 2 bytes size newyear 2 bytes code if year == 99 newyear = year + 1900 else newyear = year + 2000 endif then change all code occurances of year to newyear Safe for the next 99 years wont that work in Cobol ? The problem came about because of the desire to save a byte of memory...at the time, all well and good. Who would have thought any code would last over 20 years? But it did, and resulted in Y2K. The problem isn't there aren't fixes, including yours, as well as just expanding the data field to cover a larger number of years...we knew that years before Y2K. The problem is in all the lines of code that you have to make sure it changes to reflect. Code that is in outmoded, undocumented, or other problematic progamming techniques. The "quick fix" was to filter the output from the original code and apply the semi-arbitrary rules about "24" or so, based on the company. The bug may be back in another 10-15 years.

Rushemery -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/5/2008 10:43:16 AM)
if I can find it I will post it but it said something about the dark age being a mini ice age or when the earth cooled causing it to be harder to grow food and wide spread diease and starvation, I dont know the dates not that much into it

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/5/2008 11:45:56 AM)
Y2K was the biggest hoax I have seen. I worked for a very large software development corporation at the time. The worst that happened was some of the dates thought it was 1901, and just dumped all data with that date tag on it. Their patch was easy to make, and the only ones that had problems were backwoods bubbas who did not have internet connection, or want to pay the $5 to have the disk shipped to them. So many people got scared and some small businesses paid thousands of dollars to become "Y2K compliant" when nothing would have happened if they had not. Yes there were a few systems that needed upgrades, but the spcualtion was like chicken little screaming the sky is falling. At my company, we were not allowed to speculate openly on whether Y2K would or would not have a problem with the software. The sales people used it to push revemues to the highest they had ever been. Now back to the OP, and reading all the other chicken littles.

Griswold -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/5/2008 3:25:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 A scientist from Russia says the earth is about to end it's warming period it entered in the 17th century...and a cooling will begin to take place as soon as 2012... According to the scientist... Astrophysics knows two solar activity cycles, of 11 and 200 years. Both are caused by changes in the radius and area of the irradiating solar surface. The latest data, obtained by Habibullah Abdusamatov, head of the Pulkovo Observatory space research laboratory, say that Earth has passed the peak of its warmer period, and a fairly cold spell will set in quite soon, by 2012. Real cold will come when solar activity reaches its minimum, by 2041, and will last for 50-60 years or even longer. He goes on to say the increased CO2 in the atmosphere is actually coming from the oceans as the increased solar radiation removes the gas from the oceans and fills the atmosphere...He says the amount of CO2 produced by human industrial polution is much too small to to have a significant effect on global climate change. http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080103/94768732.html That's all quite interesting. There was once a local burger chain here out west called "Arctic Circle". They made the world's BEST damn fries...and the world's BEST damn fry dipping sauce. Interestingly, they started faltering about 10 years ago (right about when Gore started his thesis...coincidence? I think not). 10 years ago they had 277 stores. Today...39. I suspect the above theorem indicates they'll be coming back...and with a vengence. (I say buy the stock now).

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/5/2008 4:57:11 PM)
Whatever side of the fence you are on, the main message is clear: we must become better stewards of the earth. The rest is merely how you justify this obvious fact to yourself.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/5/2008 7:21:33 PM)
This I completely agree with. It needs to be as little as not throwing trash out, to as much as enforcing more anti-pollution regulations. This all has to be tempered with economics and humanity though. Wonder if there will be anyone that disagree with your statement. quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro Whatever side of the fence you are on, the main message is clear: we must become better stewards of the earth. The rest is merely how you justify this obvious fact to yourself.

Owner59 -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/5/2008 8:23:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Do you mean that majority that excluded a large number of scientist, that had opposing views, from attending conferences on the matter? Peer review is great, when you get to pick your peers. I am still undecided on this whole issue, but the global warming crowd does not do their side any favors when they do things that seem to skew the results. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 "A scientist from Russia" " ~A~ scientist",as in one?lol,As in ~singular~?As in uno?lol And from where?<snickers> Russia?LOL Boy that`s impressive.........................................not. Are you serious? ROTFLMAO Probably has more credentials than Al Gore. Pwobabwy has moe cwedentuouz ,den Al Gore. Awwww.. How clever,..now mature ,how deep...... Does the single Rusky ,have more "cwedentuouz",than the majority of the world`s scientists? How many scientists,exactly, were exluded? And from what conferences ,exactly,were they excluded from?Name names. And how many of these alleged, excluded scientists,were climatologists? I think you`re bull shitting. Peer review is great, when you get to pick your peers. OK. Describe the peer review process that happened ,with the world scientific body on this issue. Same question as far as the UN conferences on climate change is concerned.Tell us how the peer review process worked in these bodys,and then describe how it should have gone. global warming crowd does not do their side any favors when they do things that seem to skew the results. What exactly,has been skewed? And what results,are you talking about? I think you`re bull shitting. I don`t think you can back up, any of that. A single scienist from Russia,is not what I mean,by "back up".

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/5/2008 8:59:50 PM)
What? You banter when our GI's are dying in Iraq? <snickers> You can do the same google searches as anyone if you really wanted the answers. Instead you like to spread the "fear" of global warming. What is the difference in using fear in this, and using fear about terrorism? Really, tell the truth, you are a comedian by night.

Owner59 -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/5/2008 9:08:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Does the single Rusky ,have more "cwedentuouz",than the majority of the world`s scientists? The environmentalists have limited the debate. Scientists who have even questioned the idea of man-made global warming claim to be shut out of conferences, research being rejected, and meterologists are threatened that their licenses will be revoked. They dont want controversy on this topic. In my opinion, the environmentalists have latched on to this issue in order to promote their political goals. They think the only way to solve the pollution problem is to scare the public that the world will end in 50 years unless we change. Pollution is a big problem and no one is denying that. But you cannot use junk science to further your goal. People are not that stupid. The people who are pushing the man is to blame theory reminds me of the religious right trying to shut down scientific research on the orgin of life. They dont want science to trivialize what they consider to be fact. Al Gore claims there is consensus in the scientific world that global warming can be blamed on human activity. There is no consensus on this and in fact, the more research that has been done on this have only exposed holes in Gore's theory. Third variables are being discovered (ie: the crust under Greenland and antartica is very thin and have experienced increase heat from the earth's mantle which is to blame for some of the melted ice). It is proof that we need to do more extensive research on this issue and it isnt as clear cut as the environmentalists believe. you`re so well informed...............................not. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2023835.stm http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/09/15/eaclimate115.xml

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/5/2008 9:14:55 PM)
Here is one: "Khandekar, who has a PhD in meteorology, a masters degree in statistics and won several post-doctoral fellowships, including one with the National Research Council, was a top climate scientist with Environment Canada for 25 years, as well as with the UN. Altogether, Khandekar—who has never had any affiliation with energy companies—has worked at the highest levels on climate research for 48 years and has published more than 100 highly regarded scientific papers. On Nov. 29, the opening day of the conference, Khandekar arrived in Montreal along with Morten Paulsen with the Calgary-based Friends of Science, and was not allowed to register." Here are a few more that were told they could attend but not speak: R. Timothy Patterson, PhD, Professor, Dept. of Earth Sciences (paleoclimatology), Carleton University John McLean, PhD, climate data analyst, computer scientist, Australia Richard S. Courtney, PhD, climate and atmospheric science consultant Jon Jenkins, PhD, MD, computer modelling - virology, NSW, Australia It was the UN's 11th Conference of Parties. If I really felt like correcting your ignorance I could come up with more. Now people may wonder why some of these scientist were not allowed. Well there seems to be two reasons 1) They all signed an open letter stating that the Man Made Global Warming fixation is detracting from the Natural Climate changes that are occuring, and that will effect food production. Nations need information on how to adapt to these changes, so reduce the impact to human life. Here is the open letter: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=164002 Here are the signatories: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=164004 I feel so bad that I have wasted this time searching for these things again, when all our GI's are dying. Don't you feel bad Owner59?

Owner59 -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/5/2008 9:25:30 PM)
A note on the debate. When this issue 1st came up,the moneyed interests started a push back. There was a complete and unaquivical denile,that the earth was warming. No way ,no how.It wasn`t happening.it never happened,and the people who said it was happening,were filthy liberal,tree hugging enviro-fascists anyway,and were lying . Another good bull shit line,was that the scientists who thought that climate change was happening,were being payed by some unknown entity,to say that.Somehow, the scientists were beholden to enviornmentalist,and their troves of money.LOL Of course,no one can name who the enviro-money men are.(but they`re out there,I heard it on fox<sarcasm>) But recently,all the nay sayers have had to agree that the earth`s average temperature,is rising. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/09/15/eaclimate115.xml http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2023835.stm http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010612climate0612netp2.asp There was a misinformed fella,who posted that he was un-decided ,but that the "~global warming crowd~ wasn`t doing their side any favors when they do things that seem to skew the results." How about this? http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE3DB143CF93AA35756C0A96F948260 "The White House confirmed today that it had censored Congressional testimony on the effects of global warming by a top Government scientist, but it insisted that the changes reflected policy decisions, not scientific conclusions". Is that, the kind of skewing you`re talking about? http://tailrank.com/3492287/White-House-Edits-Climate-Science Bush administration officials acknowledged yesterday that they heavily edited testimony on global warming, delivered to Congress on Tuesday by the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, after the president's top science adviser and other officials questioned its scientific... While Bush now accepts the reality of climate change, his old habits of censoring facts he doesn't like continue. There is no excuse for hiding scientific facts from voters and the public should not stand for it. Julie Gerberding, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - by slashing How`s that for skewing?lol Who`s skewing who? Lately,the denier`s ~talking points~, have changed from no way,no how,to ,ok,we admit there is a temp. rise,but it`s not us doing it,so nothings changed, Hurray!!!!!!!!!! Let`s`s keep pollute`n, Yeah!!!!!!!! See how it works? There`s no winning, with these slick ass PR firms,oil lobbies and their billions.

AlexanderC -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/5/2008 9:30:51 PM)
Sounds more than a little thin.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/5/2008 11:23:49 PM)
A note on the debate. You lump everyone into the same category. I personally have never said that the earth is not getting warmer, because in fact I know that it is. What I am undecided on, is how much of manmade CO is actually causing it, and if it is a naturally occur cycle that may the earth may self correct. Looking at everyone's data, it appears that there is definatelky climate change. There is a large group of scientist that say that man has a substantial impact, and another very larg group thata does not agree on that impact. Both groups do agree that there is climate change occuring. Stop being passive agressive with " a misinformed fella", that is pretty lame from some that is supposed to be dominant. Show me where the misinformation is. I have seen most of it, and there is no substantial proof that man has a large impact on it. There is a huge amount that shows global warming, but if the other side is correct, then we are headed for some dramatic global cooling, and both are bad on food source, flora and fauna. There is also a huge problem globally with pollution, which may or may not be contributing to the climate change, but it is definately contributing to other devasting effects on our planet. Again you prove that being a cheerleader is the most important thing to you. You really need to get that mirror I suggested. You asked for some proof, and I showed it to you. Yo add to some things, I believe you missed the Bush admin memo that instructed national researchers to refrain from using the term "global warming. The nay sayers of global warming are idiots, the planet is getting hotter. Does this make you feel better that neither side is doing things to help themselves by trying to force people to believe their theories? I must have missed it, but was there actually people here that were denying global warming? or were the disputing the claims of what is actually causing it? So how goes the night work, with the writers strike and all? quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 A note on the debate. When this issue 1st came up,the moneyed interests started a push back. There was a complete and unaquivical denile,that the earth was warming. No way ,no how.It wasn`t happening.it never happened,and the people who said it was happening,were filthy liberal,tree hugging enviro-fascists anyway,and were lying . Another good bull shit line,was that the scientists who thought that climate change was happening,were being payed by some unknown entity,to say that.Somehow, the scientists were beholden to enviornmentalist,and their troves of money.LOL Of course,no one can name who the enviro-money men are.(but they`re out there,I heard it on fox<sarcasm>) But recently,all the nay sayers have had to agree that the earth`s average temperature,is rising. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/09/15/eaclimate115.xml http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2023835.stm http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010612climate0612netp2.asp There was a misinformed fella,who posted that he was un-decided ,but that the "~global warming crowd~ wasn`t doing their side any favors when they do things that seem to skew the results." How about this? http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE3DB143CF93AA35756C0A96F948260 "The White House confirmed today that it had censored Congressional testimony on the effects of global warming by a top Government scientist, but it insisted that the changes reflected policy decisions, not scientific conclusions". Is that, the kind of skewing you`re talking about? http://tailrank.com/3492287/White-House-Edits-Climate-Science Bush administration officials acknowledged yesterday that they heavily edited testimony on global warming, delivered to Congress on Tuesday by the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, after the president's top science adviser and other officials questioned its scientific... While Bush now accepts the reality of climate change, his old habits of censoring facts he doesn't like continue. There is no excuse for hiding scientific facts from voters and the public should not stand for it. Julie Gerberding, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - by slashing How`s that for skewing?lol Who`s skewing who? Lately,the denier`s ~talking points~, have changed from no way,no how,to ,ok,we admit there is a temp. rise,but it`s not us doing it,so nothings changed, Hurray!!!!!!!!!! Let`s`s keep pollute`n, Yeah!!!!!!!! See how it works? There`s no winning, with these slick ass PR firms,oil lobbies and their billions.

cyberdude611 -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/6/2008 5:43:16 AM)
Ultimately, I think it is foolish to think we know how our planet works when we have been recording weather patterns for only a little more than 100 years. The eruption of Mt. St Helens released two times more CO2 (along with other greenhouse gases) into the atmosphere than all the automobiles on the planet do in a 10 year period. Was there any change in temperature at all? Nope. You know how much CO2 was just dumped in the atmosphere a few months ago with the wildfires in California? Enormous amounts that make our contribution of CO2 miniscule. And this is all assuming CO2 is directly responsible for rising temperatures....an unproven fact. Sorry but a simple correlation between CO2 levels and temperatures is not enough evidence to prove cause and effect. I believe it was Vladimir Lenin who once stated that a lie told often enough will inevitably become the truth. For the past 20 years the global warming alarmists have pounded and pounded and pounded unproven scientific assumptions and correlations into the heads of an unformed public. Any scientist that would dare even question these assumptions were labeled things equivalent to a holocaust denier. This is not the way science is supposed to be. Peer review is a very critical part of the scientific process. Instead of going through that process the alarmists have decided to skip the research and testing and just publish the conclusions, pretending that the science is clear-cut and solid. No one disputing that the world is warming or that pollution is a problem. That's not the debate. The debate is whether we have anything to do with climate change or if this is just a clever ploy to scare civilization into radical social-economic changes. That is not only dishonety but it violates every ethical principle of science itself. Science is the quest to find truth.....it is not a tool to further your political goals.

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Russian scientist warns of coming global cooling (1/6/2008 12:56:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Here is one: "Khandekar, who has a PhD in meteorology, a masters degree in statistics and won several post-doctoral fellowships, including one with the National Research Council, was a top climate scientist with Environment Canada for 25 years, as well as with the UN. Altogether, Khandekar—who has never had any affiliation with energy companies—has worked at the highest levels on climate research for 48 years and has published more than 100 highly regarded scientific papers. On Nov. 29, the opening day of the conference, Khandekar arrived in Montreal along with Morten Paulsen with the Calgary-based Friends of Science, and was not allowed to register." Here are a few more that were told they could attend but not speak: R. Timothy Patterson, PhD, Professor, Dept. of Earth Sciences (paleoclimatology), Carleton University John McLean, PhD, climate data analyst, computer scientist, Australia Richard S. Courtney, PhD, climate and atmospheric science consultant Jon Jenkins, PhD, MD, computer modelling - virology, NSW, Australia It was the UN's 11th Conference of Parties. If I really felt like correcting your ignorance I could come up with more. Now people may wonder why some of these scientist were not allowed. Well there seems to be two reasons 1) They all signed an open letter stating that the Man Made Global Warming fixation is detracting from the Natural Climate changes that are occuring, and that will effect food production. Nations need information on how to adapt to these changes, so reduce the impact to human life. Here is the open letter: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=164002 Here are the signatories: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=164004 I feel so bad that I have wasted this time searching for these things again, when all our GI's are dying. Don't you feel bad Owner59? Here is another...not being excluded necessarily, but signing their names to a petition regarding this issue. An important part of the petition for those who always like to reach for the quickest reason for any disagreement with the "global warming" concept: (Bold emphasis Mine) quote: Note: *The Petition Project has no funding from energy industries or other parties with special financial interests in the "global warming" debate.* Funding for the project comes entirely from private non-tax deductible donations by interested individuals. Weather is changing. Is it a natural cycle. It is not being caused by human activity Therein lies the disagreement. The cover letter for the petition includes link to a letter from the past president for the National Academy of Sciences, as well as a link to the peer reviewed research upon which this petition is based. If you look to the left on the provided link you can check the signators alphabetically or by state. There are in excess of 19,000 signers. quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro Whatever side of the fence you are on, the main message is clear: we must become better stewards of the earth. I agree. (gasping while fainting away!) We must be better stewards. And that has nothing to do with the natural climate phenomena (a natural cycle) over which we, as the human race, have little to no control.

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