RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-(

RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (Full Version)

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DollysSissyGirl -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/30/2007 6:35:47 PM)
If anyone cares to "hedge" their food costs two agriculture ETFs to look at are MOO and PBJ. Have a great day everyone and a happy, healthy, and prosperou$ NEW YEAR ! Best regards, sissy

UtopianRanger -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/30/2007 9:51:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2004091088_foodpriceoutlook250.html Besides the obvious inflationary cycle, one other reason we're seeing the cost of food ramp up, is world food supplies are now at a near fifty-year low. And that can be attributed to the IMF /World Bank's exploitation of many poor, third-world countries. I've read quite few cases where the IMF has counseled the leadership of these poor governments with stern advice not to subsidize their citizen farmers--like we do in Europe and the states---with stuff like free/cheap fertilizer, thus leaving the poor farmers in the clutches of the false free market. - R

aviinterra -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 3:57:12 AM)
For someone who adores food, this is not good news, but still not surprising. What can we all blame for this increase? How about a few decades of getting away from common sense, like not buying our food locally, seasonally. Farms even as far north as Maine are not limitied in what they can produce if they have a greenhouse, and many do. They just don't do it because their lemons will not be brought by the supermarkets, who have deals with Australia and Columbia. So when fuel goes up, it gets expensive to ship those lemons to Maine, and that is why we see them inflate to one per dollar ( sick ). I will try real hard not to rant on the supermarket situation here, but I will say that it would be economically wiser to have ten small food markets and a butcher in town than two supercenters. Small business and local jobs serving local produce to the locals. The last thing that stands out to me is our growing dependance on processed food ( cooked, ready to serve, microwave, etc.). It is increasingly harder to find basic ingredients in a supermarket. Ever tried to make a good loaf of bread with bleached over processed flour? Yuck. You have to spend more gas and money to drive to a more diverse market across the town. I guess the point of this rather aimless post was that we can not blame Iraq, Bush, or any recent events for all of this really. Everything is interconnected, but our spending habits as a nation have long dictated what will happen to our food supply once fuel and a some hard days come about.

Sanity -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 5:07:05 AM)
I would say that the rising biofuels markets are to blame. We're fueling Limousine Liberals' Limousines with grain! We can't drill for oil on the North Slope, or in the very large oil fields that have been proven to lie off both coasts, while China and India are using vast amounts of the world's oil that they never used to use before. There's a shrinking supply and a growing demand. The Left blames Bush for the energy use that they claim is destroying their earth god, but they also blame Bush for not providing us with the cheap gasoline that we need in order to destroy their earth god. Vote for them and their magic wand (I guess) and everything will magically become perfect. Destroy the evil oil companies and we'll have more oil that is actually healthy for the environment. Democrats are never corrupt, and despite the fact that rising oil prices is a global problem, the President of the United States is responsible - if he's a pro-business Republican. If he (or she) is an anti-business Socialist Democrat we'll have more gas and oil. Heck, gas stations will pay us to fill our tanks with their products. Free food will be delivered to our doors, and we won't have to work any more...

Leatherist -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 6:54:55 AM)
Firstly- we need to expand our water supplies with evaporative as opposed to osmosive seawater treatment. Much as happens when you see water beading up inside of a plastic bag when it gets warm.. Large ponds covered with plastic and an air circulator to pull off the humid air would make this practical. Cool that air, and we then have fresh water. Then we would not be so dependent on aquifers for water. Secondly, we need more greenhouse sorts of agriculture. And aquaponic setups-these can also provide fish protien-and are about ten times as efficient with water use than conventional open field agriculture. They will also produce year round, not just seasonally. We would not need to import food during the winter. And there would be no crop failures during droughts. Here's how it works: http://members.iinet.net.au/~jmalcolm/further%20information.htm Time to bring our food production into the 21st century.

MrRodgers -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 7:10:03 AM)
People...welcome to capitalism (corporatism) where we now live in an 'Ayn Rand' world: There are NO truths NOT discovered by the transfer of wealth in the pusuit of a profit. Gas, oil, food, lending, medical services, Bush tariffs so inlcude steel and lumber. America and far too much of the west is ALL about a profit...money. Our subsidies (and that of Europe) encourage over production of food 'stuffs' (and overuse of our resources) once done requires dumping this over supply on the world market. (Item: the federal gov't spends $million/PER DAY buying, storing and dumping agri-products) (Item: agri-Africa loses around $300-$500 million/year in agri-products due to western agri-subsides) We in America live in a plutocracy...government of money...by money...for money where the capitalist legally invests his money ('political free-speech, whatever that is) in government...expecting and receiving a very handsome return on that investment. The Republicans are not schizophrenic like the Dems. The Dems think they can accomodate both the poor and the rich...the Republicans know you can't, so of course...they act on behalf of and have totally become the party of the rich. NOTE: One could...could mind you, vote for Ron Paul or maybe John Edwards but you won't...neither will be nominated. I wonder why.

Leonardo -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 10:04:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber I strongly suggest we start referring to the coming economic crisis as "The Bush Depression" or possibly "The Republican Gift." Let's make sure that future generations remember who saddled us with this coming hardship. May they never be elected to any office higher than dogcatcher again! I would hope they don't even get elected as dogcatcher.... they'd then try to figure out a way to take away my prospective future lactating sub (for milk) and my future chickens (for eggs).

ThinkingKitten -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 10:12:25 AM)
Considering the epidemic, and still rising rates of obesity in a number of western countries, maybe forcing people to eat less through higher prices wouldn't be such a bad thing. I buy organic food when I can, which is often two to three times the price of mass-market food. I eat less therefore, and I sure as hell don't waste any of it. It'll still require the presence of food banks, soup kitchens and so forth - I'm not ignoring the plight of those less fortunate, but for the rest? What a shame really if you had to forego the 16 oz T-bone for the 4-6 oz helping which is closer to the recommended intake?..........? It's a matter of education I think - helping people understand how to make wise food choices. For instance, when your favourite brand of cheese flavoured chip goes up in price, don't just switch to a generic, lower priced version. Quit eating the things so often, or try making some veggie ones sprinkled with parmesan at home in your own oven..... Eh?

Leonardo -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 10:21:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I would say that the rising biofuels markets are to blame. We're fueling Limousine Liberals' Limousines with grain! We can't drill for oil on the North Slope, or in the very large oil fields that have been proven to lie off both coasts, while China and India are using vast amounts of the world's oil that they never used to use before. There's a shrinking supply and a growing demand. The Left blames Bush for the energy use that they claim is destroying their earth god, but they also blame Bush for not providing us with the cheap gasoline that we need in order to destroy their earth god. Vote for them and their magic wand (I guess) and everything will magically become perfect. Destroy the evil oil companies and we'll have more oil that is actually healthy for the environment. Democrats are never corrupt, and despite the fact that rising oil prices is a global problem, the President of the United States is responsible - if he's a pro-business Republican. If he (or she) is an anti-business Socialist Democrat we'll have more gas and oil. Heck, gas stations will pay us to fill our tanks with their products. Free food will be delivered to our doors, and we won't have to work any more... The fallacy that lies therein is the misconception that corn is the only viable source for ethanol, when there actually is a much wider variety of better choices than corn. The other misconception is that corn is a necessary food for raising everything else (like cattle), when it actually isn't. A farmer friend of mine who raises cattle, goats, and buffalo told me that he has yet to feed his cattle any corn... they are naturally range-fed, which creates better results. In 1908, Henry Ford suggested that we get away from oil and look into alcohol fuels to find a way to produce it in volume. He even suggested sawdust. In Nov. GA Gov. Sonny Perdue inaugurated the first of its kind, ethanol plant which will be creating over a million gal. of ethanol fuel per year from tree farms. As long as we maintain the obsolete mindset of wanting to depend on oil, we shall be dependent upon foreign oil, wherein by remaining apathetically dependent on foreign oil, we also promulgate a military presence in the middle east, thereby actually bringing the true price of gasoline in the US to about $15 per gal, when all elements are taken into account. Oh, and btw, most of the ones who drive the Hummers and other BIGGGG trucks and SUV's are not the "liberals". I drive a little Ford Ranger FFV which may not get me to 150 mph, but it does get me 28 mpg. And bride drives a 98 Ford Escort SE wagon, that is not E-85 capable, but it gets her an average of 40 mpg. Funny thing, this "oil shortage" occured last during the "tricky Dicky" administration and when conservatives actually became fiscal conservatives in practice and not just in obiter dictum, following the liberals' lead, the auto makers were forced to abandon the monster gas-guzzler vehicles of those days and begin manufacturing more energy-conservative vehicles.

mnottertail -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 10:37:46 AM)
Corn is not terribly high for its cycle, in fact it is dropping, and certainly way off from its high of about 5.60 in summer of 96. Now, the reason for this is that idiots who scare money out of people have no real knowledge of agriculture. The deal with the futures contracts is coming home to roost, no analyst to date has been able to consider that elevators have bought ahead for the ethanol shortage scare, and near any elevator out here in the midwest you go to, it is laying out in fields around the elevator (at inflated prices) rotting like a son of a bitch. Turns out that there werent enough plants to process it. So, bought at a high price, and storage costs mounting, and nowhere to put the shit, same thing happening to wheat, (both of which require a great deal of fuel to grow, transport, process and whatnot...so how do you clear out inventories??? Lay up alot of height on the contracts (lotta money) so you can recoup the investment.....get rid of current stocks, and pretty much tell the farmers not to plant more....make it too expensive to get into.... Check the open interest on these and viola. Anyways it is around 4.22 cash price in my area, not so much different from the end of last year........... This is the same sort of market manipulations that are going on in oil (because it cost so much per barrel of raw that they have to charge more at the pump, and yet the processors are making record profits).........How Do It Know??? Ron

Leonardo -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 10:47:35 AM)
Unfortunately, the higher pricing doesn't benefit the farmers... but rather, the speculators. It would be an interesting thing if the farmers of the US decided to grow what they want to instead of what the government tells them to, and then sell their agri-products directly to the consumer rather than to the processors and big corporate conglomerates. That, in fact, is what my farmer friend did... he built a produce stand next to his house, and now he sells produce direct to the area consumers. In order to have more variety in his produce, he gets together with some other farmers and they basically trade between each other. In so doing, they make more money for themselves, while also benefitting the local consumers by selling better products at a lower price than the super grocers. Just a thought.

mnottertail -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 10:55:16 AM)
yes, exactly the problem with ridding american farmers of subsidies from the government........ ALL operating loans and even the right to farm is based on corn base or wheat base........ That is you MUST plant a minimum acreage of wheat or corn (and it takes up a pretty big chunk of total land) if you are going to deal with the government or bank in any way during the operation. You gotta have a pretty big wallet to not be dependant on government or banks to run farming operations for cashflow reasons. I have a cousin who owns his shit lock stock and barrel and doesnt need storage loans or seed loans or whatnot, and is doing very well.....cause he doesnt have to obey the government.. But yes, government agricultural regulations insure that the individual family farmer is barefoot and pregnant---- When one calls foul at that they play the old, "a steady and cheap food supply" shit, but do not control it up the pipe apparently big business is more necessary for the common good at that point. Ron

came4U -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 12:38:56 PM)
Then stock up on food. Maybe enough for 3 months in case of dire straights. But then again, rumor is that food hoarding will be banned if shit hits the fan and if the martial law comes in effect and end of the world cometh. Buy low, sell high.

mnottertail -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 12:54:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: came4U Buy low, sell high. Dammit!!!!!! THAT's what it was.......I heard that wrong the first time, no wonder..... Ron Buy a lot of meat on sale and fuck them taco shells. You will survive.

came4U -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 1:02:03 PM)
quote: fuck them taco shells. the new ones? the ones with the flat bottoms that don't fall over? or do most prefer the ones that roll over and splatter all of it's contents?

Lordandmaster -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 1:41:57 PM)
Laughing...yeah...milk from 2007 is going to be worth a fortune next year. quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail quote: ORIGINAL: came4U Buy low, sell high. Dammit!!!!!! THAT's what it was.......I heard that wrong the first time, no wonder.....

came4U -> RE: food costs to soar in 08 :-( (12/31/2007 2:30:07 PM)
quote: Laughing...yeah...milk from 2007 is going to be worth a fortune next year. ewww I just got that! not millllllk omg, canned stuff. Old milk ha! nasty.

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