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RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/28/2007 5:36:28 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

"How would they tell you anything? Hummm... there's drugs, there's threatening them with knowledge of their familie's whereabouts, there's trickery, there's faking them out.... then there's... boredom. How long can you stay in a cell with no human contact before you break? "

Bipolar barber, are you actually sugesting we go hurt thier famillies?  Simply pretending is a rather empty threat, it would require actually doing to be credible.

Wouldn't trickery and faking them out be exactly what was done in Abu Graid with the fake car batteries?, which the left went nuts over.  Boredom seems to be the main form of interogation we do use.


Nah hero,it was the actual tortures,rapes,molestations and killings,and other outrages,and the fact that private contractors were involved,that the left(and every other normal ,non-political ,average person in America)went nuts over.

You neo-cons must still be embarrassed, over that one.



Post #: 1  A question for neo-cons,answer it if you can.






< Message edited by Owner59 -- 12/28/2007 6:02:07 AM >

(in reply to luckydog1)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/28/2007 5:37:53 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
The point is, even if torture is "bad" there are times when even you would resort to it, I am sure.


I would seriously doubt that. 
 
Resorting to torture, assumes that a) the person you are torturing, is actually guilty of something, or has something to tell, b) the information could not be obtained by any other means.
 
... and the grand prize winner ... c) tolerating torture by those with good intentions, will give torture as a tool, to those who's intentions are far less lofty!

_____________________________

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the woman you stole.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/28/2007 6:16:56 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I do not attempt to justify anything right now, but as I am seemingly becoming the resident devil's advocate I have this to say.

What if it were your kid ?

What if it were your kid ?

See you after everyone says "Hmmmmmmm".

T


I'm unclear of the context here:

What, what if MY KID was abducted by the US Government, and I was threatened with being forced to watch their rapes and murders, like the US did with KSM?

Or, what would I do if MY KID was abducted by the US Government and held without counsel, arraignment, bail hearing or trial?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/28/2007 10:25:16 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Nah hero,it was the actual tortures,rapes,molestations and killings,and other outrages,and the fact that private contractors were involved,that the left(and every other normal ,non-political ,average person in America)went nuts over.

You neo-cons must still be embarrassed, over that one.


Owner,

Your statement is an accusation of

1. Torture,
2. Rape
3. Molestation
4. Killings,
5. Other undefined "outrages"

by the US government as policy.

Would you care to:

1. Give credible examples of 2-5,
2. Give your operational definition of "torture"as it applies to item 1
3. Define "neo-con" for me?

Firm


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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/28/2007 10:35:01 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
The point is, even if torture is "bad" there are times when even you would resort to it, I am sure.


I would seriously doubt that. 
 
Resorting to torture, assumes that a) the person you are torturing, is actually guilty of something, or has something to tell, b) the information could not be obtained by any other means.
 
... and the grand prize winner ... c) tolerating torture by those with good intentions, will give torture as a tool, to those who's intentions are far less lofty!


Caitlyn,

Is there any possible situation that you can think of, in which the use of physical force (whether you wish to define it as "torture" or not) might be justifiable in order to obtain information from an individual who is not initially willing to give it?

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/28/2007 10:39:37 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		if someone were to hurt my daughters feelings I would icepick the cocksucker dead in the face, so for everyone there is some sort of breaking point in my estimation.

Now, this runs to the hyperbole.  This is not the situation under discussion, and it should not be the policy of this nation to liken anthing that is public or discernable in the Gitmo/AbuGrahib situation to my daughters hurt feelings........


Seriously, what manner of shit is this?

Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/28/2007 10:43:41 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Seriously, what manner of shit is this?


... Seriously ... my last question was for caitlyn.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/28/2007 10:50:52 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		seriously? I dont give the glimmer of a fuck about you or it or anything.  My comments are topical, and will post where they will, if you are trying that pussy, good for you firmy, and I am sorry that I got in the way of your pussy, but not that sorry, know what I am saying, bud? This was not some vast expanse of refutation of a well considered opinion..........you don't have them. but personally. I do think you are tits.

Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/28/2007 10:53:03 PM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		Ron, come away from the mean man and hide under my skirt. I'm not wearing undies and I smell like coconut....................... RREEEOOOWWWWW

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(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/28/2007 10:55:21 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Ole Ole Ole Ole
Ole Ole Ole Ole FIESTA! Me mind on fire, me soul on fire
Feelin' hot hot hot
Party people, all around me
Feelin hot hot hot Oh what to do, on a night like this
Music's sweet, I can't resist
We need, a party song
A fun, Jamaican jam So we can boom boom boom boom
Yeah arroom boom boom boom See people rockin' yeah people chantin'
Feelin' hot hot hot
Keep up the spirit come on let's do it
Feelin' hot hot hot It's in the air, celebration time
Music's sweet, captivate your mind
We have, this party song
This fun, Jamaican jam So we can boom boom boom boom
Yeah arroom boom boom boom Feelin' hot hot hot
Feelin' hot hot hot Oh lord Ole Ole Ole Ole
Ole Ole Ole Ole
Ole Ole Ole Ole
Ole Ole Ole Ole (Spoken) People in the party hot hot hot
People in the party hot hot hot
They come to the party knowin what they got
They come to the party knowin what they got
I'm hot, you're hot, he's hot, she's hot
I' hot, you're hot, he's hot, she's hot REAL HOT 4x How you feelin'? HOT HOT HOT
How you feelin'? HOT HOT HOT
How you feelin'? HOT HOT HOT

Buster ASS Poindexter *nice shoes*


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to MissMagnolia)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/28/2007 11:50:08 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

seriously? I dont give the glimmer of a fuck about you or it or anything.  My comments are topical, and will post where they will, if you are trying that pussy, good for you firmy, and I am sorry that I got in the way of your pussy, but not that sorry, know what I am saying, bud? This was not some vast expanse of refutation of a well considered opinion..........you don't have them. but personally. I do think you are tits.

Ron 


Ron,

You don't, and never have intimidated me. Don't think you are going to start now.  Nor do your faint attempts at insults move me one whit.

You replied to the question I posed to caitlyn. You attempted to do so in substance and you did do so administratively.

The fact that you did not understand the question, and did a lousy job of answering it, I left alone.

I simply told you - using your own sentence formulation - that my question was for caitlyn.

Get off your high horse, and we can have a conversation. Puff up and wave your dick in my face, and we can have another useless testosterone-driven battle of words, if that is your desire.

Firm


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/29/2007 12:20:40 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		LOLOLOL.

Faint attempts at insults? Jesus.  using my sentence formulation, I said I dont give a fuck, mine was not in answer to you or  Caitlyn, and I said what I said. 

You mean more the word Fain, which is not that closely related to faint, but nevertheless; look---all the dancing around here in real policy bush is a pretty fuckwaddamunicious piece of shit of a president,  he went out jacking off on the war of terror (which for anyones money is a good thing to stop) but ----------look


Big fucking failure........nobody  crashed the world trade center when dick suck bill was in office, this fucking clown cant handle it-----after all this time of hearing tax and spend democrats and liberals are a dirty word, you got republicans sucking each other off in bathrooms is the minnapolis airport and spending my money fighting in congress about this shit and whether it is a ';states rights' yeah, read that closely you left wing liberal about whether cocksuckers  can have babies as a goddam federal issue.

As we cast our glances back over the last republican years I have to say that democrats have kept more faith with this country than republicans.........

But I am not a party guy (in that sense)

So, you have been batting about zero on all your essays, and tell me.......are you better off than you were four years ago?

Ron



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/29/2007 12:34:38 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
The point is, even if torture is "bad" there are times when even you would resort to it, I am sure.


I would seriously doubt that. 
 
Resorting to torture, assumes that a) the person you are torturing, is actually guilty of something, or has something to tell, b) the information could not be obtained by any other means.
 
... and the grand prize winner ... c) tolerating torture by those with good intentions, will give torture as a tool, to those who's intentions are far less lofty!


Caitlyn,

Is there any possible situation that you can think of, in which the use of physical force (whether you wish to define it as "torture" or not) might be justifiable in order to obtain information from an individual who is not initially willing to give it?

Firm



Is the TORTURER WILLING to sit in a FEDERAL PRISON for 20 years to pay for his CRIMES?

If the TORTURER CHOOSES to violate the Law, then the TORTURER *MUST* server the time for his criminal act. In fact, if they were a Patriot, they would INSIST on the maximum sentence, and NO TRIAL, as their guilt is indisputable.

When you present to the US Marshals *ALL THOSE* who have violated the Law and their Oaths for detention, then we can discuss if those Criminal Acts were in any way "Justified".

Why are all the "SOFT ON CRIME" types so willing to let Torturers walk away from their crimes without being punished?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/29/2007 10:14:21 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOLOLOL.

Hollow attempt to display apparent humor in order to cover your failures.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Faint attempts at insults? Jesus.  using my sentence formulation, I said I dont give a fuck, mine was not in answer to you or  Caitlyn, and I said what I said. 


Sorry, but it is obvious to anyone with any sense of impartiality that you were attempting to address my question. The "In reply to ..." was a dead give away, if nothing else.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
You mean more the word Fain, which is not that closely related to faint, but nevertheless; look---all the dancing around here in real policy bush is a pretty fuckwaddamunicious piece of shit of a president,  he went out jacking off on the war of terror (which for anyones money is a good thing to stop) but ----------look


No, I didn't mean "Fain".  Quit trying your petty tricks in an attempt to recover a modicum of dignity. You are just embarrasing yourself more. I said "faint attempts at insults" ... a simple Google would show you the following three top definitions of "faint" ...

Definitions of faint on the Web:
  • deficient in magnitude; barely perceptible; lacking clarity or brightness or loudness etc;
  • dim: lacking clarity or distinctness; 
  • lacking strength or vigor; 

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: mnottertail
    Big fucking failure........nobody  crashed the world trade center when dick suck bill was in office, this fucking clown cant handle it-----after all this time of hearing tax and spend democrats and liberals are a dirty word, you got republicans sucking each other off in bathrooms is the minnapolis airport and spending my money fighting in congress about this shit and whether it is a ';states rights' yeah, read that closely you left wing liberal about whether cocksuckers  can have babies as a goddam federal issue.

    As we cast our glances back over the last republican years I have to say that democrats have kept more faith with this country than republicans.........

    But I am not a party guy (in that sense)

    So, you have been batting about zero on all your essays, and tell me.......are you better off than you were four years ago?


    The rest of your post is simply intellectual diarrhea, where you again attempt to show what a "big man" you are, and to intimidate by using profanity and stream of consciousness writing in another inane attempt at "dignity recovery".

    Stop it. It simply makes you look pathetic.

    If you want to have a conversation: fine. But quit these dominance games with me. They won't work.

    Firm

    _____________________________

    Some people are just idiots.

    (in reply to mnottertail)
    • Profile   Post #: 54
    RE: Bush is so full of shit... - 12/29/2007 2:22:08 PM   
    philosophy


    Posts: 5284
    Joined: 2/15/2004
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: caitlyn

    ............... and the grand prize winner ... c) tolerating torture by those with good intentions, will give torture as a tool, to those who's intentions are far less lofty!


    Is there any possible situation that you can think of, in which the use of physical force (whether you wish to define it as "torture" or not) might be justifiable in order to obtain information from an individual who is not initially willing to give it?




    .......your question ducks the entirely reasonable point that i have cribbed from Caitlyn's post. How about you answer her point before rephrasing the usual excuse for torturing suspects...ie if it were your kid/parent/cat, wouldn't you torture them, just a bit?
    Caitlyn has made a point that goes way past your small focussed question. Her point goes to the heart of this 'war on terror'....if we keep on finding excuses for torture then it ceases to become a war on terror and begins to be a war between those who use terror.

    (in reply to FirmhandKY)
    Profile   Post #: 55
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