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Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 6:15:35 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		 Yup,the twister`s on it`s way,and you`re waiting in line for a criminal background check.Brilliant!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5380868.html

'Though the intent is to make sure vulnerable evacuees aren't victimized, Colley acknowledged that culling sex offenders and other criminals from a herd of evacuees during a potentially chaotic evacuation comes with plenty of challenges.'
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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 6:25:20 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Why don't they just stop them from evacuating altogether, while they're at it?

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 12/21/2007 6:48:56 AM >

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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 6:39:42 AM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		Why not just load the pedophiles and kids on the same bus and in the same sections of the shelters without much supervision at all kittenSol?

They are trying to find a way to do the evacuation without losing track of convicted sex offenders, as happened to Houston TX and some other places when they accepted evacuees from Katrina.

Easy to poke holes in a solution much tougher to actually come up with something better.

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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 6:52:24 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		It looks as though the 'autorities' are trying to divert public attention to the sex-offenders in order to cover up for the botched job they'll make at evacuating the population.

It's a common enough technique in modern politics.

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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 6:54:00 AM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Why not just load the pedophiles and kids on the same bus and in the same sections of the shelters without much supervision at all kittenSol?

They are trying to find a way to do the evacuation without losing track of convicted sex offenders, as happened to Houston TX and some other places when they accepted evacuees from Katrina.

Easy to poke holes in a solution much tougher to actually come up with something better.



Yeah, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
I'd put you critics on the "Diarrea Bus" for a day and see what you say then.
And you thought sitting next to the fat guy on the plane was bad!

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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 6:57:09 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Glad to see you're doing some thinking, popeye  .

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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 7:04:08 AM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Why not just load the pedophiles and kids on the same bus and in the same sections of the shelters without much supervision at all kittenSol?

They are trying to find a way to do the evacuation without losing track of convicted sex offenders, as happened to Houston TX and some other places when they accepted evacuees from Katrina.

Easy to poke holes in a solution much tougher to actually come up with something better.



Why are the childrens' parents allowing them to be raped by pedophiles?

Your hypothetical example seems to neglect the simple fact that the children are SUPERVISED BY THEIR OWN FAMILY. ( Which just leaves the pedophiles in the family to worry about... )

It's not a solution to any problem except, "How do we financially reward AT&T for helping us spy on Americans without any court order or oversight".



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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 7:05:54 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Plus, most abusers know their victims: they're frequently family members.

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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 7:11:11 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
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Status: offline 		Texas didn't foul up Katrina's evacuation they are in another state entirely. They merely recived the masses,
the public has been worried that they lost track of about 2,000 registered Sex Offenders durring the Katrina Evacuation. The lesson learned is that the public demands that evacuees from a disaster be screened a bit before they accept them into their communities.

It's not some dreamed up problem that the"authorities" came up with the story was all over the news for months after Katrina.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/30/katrina.sexoffenders.ap/index.html

So the problem is real
And the money and time spent tracking them down after the fact was considerable.

So what is your solution for how to make sure that convicted sexual preadtors are not wandering the shelter while the situation makes it easy for them to harm kids? How do you propose that the government make sure that registered sex offenders don't get lost in the shuffle and move into your neighborhood without registering?



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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 7:17:02 AM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		"So what is your solution for how to make sure that convicted sexual preadtors are not wandering the shelter while the situation makes it easy for them to harm kids? How do you propose that the government make sure that registered sex offenders don't get lost in the shuffle and move into your neighborhood without registering?"

Teach children to respond to attackers with deadly force. Those who can handle firearms responsibly, *should be armed*. That ensures that everyone over the age of, say, 8-10 is able to defend themselves. Anyone *under* 8, shouldn't be wandering around without their kin-folk's supervision anyway...

Distributed, Local Solutions to Distributed Local Problems.

And this way, not-only the "Convicted Sex Offenders" are limited in their ability to harm children. You attack a kid, expect to die. Since most sex offenders are cowards anyway, the problem is minimized.

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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 7:50:26 AM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		If I remember right didn't Houston have a giant spike in crimes after Katrina?
The thing about evacuations is that there's very little time available, usually hours to get people out.

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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 7:54:26 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		And evacuation is the LAST RESORT. I'm unsure people from Louisiana *really* needed to be relocated to Texas.

If FEMA wasn't involved, and Louisiana *had* a State Guard, they could have dealt with it just fine, is my opinion. All this reliance on the Feds is the key to all their problems... It's not made any easier by Bush issuing the Executive Order *making* response and recovery the Feds job...

The feds are *always* wrong, and do the *opposite* of what they tell you is a good place to begin.



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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 8:06:18 AM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Why not just load the pedophiles and kids on the same bus and in the same sections of the shelters without much supervision at all kittenSol?

They are trying to find a way to do the evacuation without losing track of convicted sex offenders, as happened to Houston TX and some other places when they accepted evacuees from Katrina.

Easy to poke holes in a solution much tougher to actually come up with something better.


Time is of the essence,in any disaster.If it requires evacuation,it`s most definitely a time sensitive situation.

So you would have to find the pedophiles 1st (which would require a CBC,which could take hours),before loading them together,which defeats the purpose of evacuation.<sarcasm>

How long is more that 99% of the general population  going to have to wait,in order to do this.Days,hours,no time at all? Probably days,considering how fast the DMV and other government buerocracies work.

I have no problem with every LEO having a laptop full of mug-shots and criminal profiles around when they`re loading buses,...but not this.

If a guy(or gal) gets caught up,fine.But the time to filter out criminals is not during a disaster.Though it sounds great and is well meaning,the plan may cause more problems than it solves.



< Message edited by Owner59 -- 12/21/2007 8:08:33 AM >

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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 8:22:41 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		They're talking about a simple thing really.
A line of buses to be loaded.

Official: Name?
John Doe
OK John your name shows up on the sex offender/ people with warrants/ parolees registry I know it may be a mistake but you can fix this when you arrive at the evacuation center. You load on bus #4 over there.

Not overly complicated, simply if the name is on this list they get a seperate bus, and when they arive they are housed seperatly until they get any mistake fixed. The list with pictures and other identity items cross checked at the shelter.

They generally take Name and a couple other information items before you load a bus anyway, helps when people need to find family members later.





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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 8:29:12 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Atlanta did. One of the clubs that I consulted for, had three new crews of gangstas coming to them. One of those crews was scoping the place out for a job, when they were photographed by security and the local police got involved.

A section of downtown, that had problems, had worse problems as crews fought with locals to make some money in the crack market. There are some that fled and came here, got jobs, and contributed, but there was a large percentage that came here and caused more crime and violence.


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

If I remember right didn't Houston have a giant spike in crimes after Katrina?
The thing about evacuations is that there's very little time available, usually hours to get people out.


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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 8:42:42 AM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

They're talking about a simple thing really.
A line of buses to be loaded.

Official: Name?
John Doe
OK John your name shows up on the sex offender/ people with warrants/ parolees registry I know it may be a mistake but you can fix this when you arrive at the evacuation center. You load on bus #4 over there.

Not overly complicated, simply if the name is on this list they get a seperate bus, and when they arive they are housed seperatly until they get any mistake fixed. The list with pictures and other identity items cross checked at the shelter.

They generally take Name and a couple other information items before you load a bus anyway, helps when people need to find family members later.







They're talking about a simple thing really.

Simple? Really? 

You`re kidding ,right?

And all the data,... is up to date and accurate?

And,if you come up as "questionable",how are you going to get along with all the other murders,rapists,pedophiles,thieves,and muggers on that "other" bus?Hopefully you`ll all be cuffed,maybe?Better hope so.

This sounds like a great idea(like "spreading" democracy at gunpoint).No one wants to lose track of convicts or bad guys,or put them on a bus with the rest of us,but this is potentially deadly,and to thousands of people.

If this process makes evacuation take days, instead of hours,would you put your family at the back of that line?

How many more thousands would have died in New Orleans,if they had to pass through this bureaucratic gantlet?Take a guess.

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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 8:46:23 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
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Status: offline 		Well if the choice is to have a mistaken ID in a bus with sex offenders, and such or a bus with women and children, which bus do you vote for? There was a lot of critisism about sex offenders being housed with women and children, after Katrina, so what is your solution to that?

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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 9:08:57 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Well if the choice is to have a mistaken ID in a bus with sex offenders, and such or a bus with women and children, which bus do you vote for? There was a lot of critisism about sex offenders being housed with women and children, after Katrina, so what is your solution to that?


Tell the women to shoot anyone who tries to molest their children.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 9:42:42 AM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		Of course it's not going to be upto date and accurate it's a government thing.
If you wait for perfection you'll never even reduce the problem let alone solve it.

I'd rather deal with the potential of a grown man mistakenly placed on the "special population" bus than deal with the more vulnerable being transported and housed with those that have already proven they are violent and predatory on a mixed population bus.

Now granted this can be a problem for times when you have pre event evacuation however many of the problem folks where not pre event but post event evacuees, Evacuated from the Superdome, to the Astrodome or other location not because they had a current storm danger but rather because they could not stay at the Superdome after the storm, due to facility/ infrastructure lackings.

Many times the need for immediate shelter might be a problem to impliment a check of this sort, but other times the time is there to perform exactly the check they are talking about.




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RE: Texas evacuees subject to criminal checks - 12/21/2007 9:53:13 AM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Well if the choice is to have a mistaken ID in a bus with sex offenders, and such or a bus with women and children, which bus do you vote for? There was a lot of critisism about sex offenders being housed with women and children, after Katrina, so what is your solution to that?


That`s not the choice ,though.

The choice is a rapid response,or a prolonged response.

The average number of bad guys in any town,are what it is.I`m not going to ask a guy if he`s a solid citizen,as I pull him from the flood waters.

Prove to me, that no time is/will be lost and I`ll be all for it.Prove to me, that when multiplied by the thousands and thousands,precious time won`t be lost ,endangering so many more people.

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