Lost (or gained) in translation?

Lost (or gained) in translation? (Full Version)

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Prinsexx -> Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/20/2007 2:43:50 PM)
I am taking some time to reflect and consider. I was just thinking to myself how subtle or sudden a shift into a bdsm dynamic can be. Especially I am considering how bdsm relationships start: where they start and how they start. I think I have always experienced something being lost in the transition into a bdsm relationship. What I mean is that another person can seem interesting, eloquent, fascinating, creative, in charge of their life and so forth. And then they just seem to be about the D/s and lose all other dimensions to their lives. I'm trying to work out: 1. how much of that loss is down to me shifting my experience/perception of them and 2 how much was their changing. narrowing, shutting down or limiting their communication with me. I know; I can see the negativity of what I am suggesting and that there is a distinct possibility that I haven'y experienced 'the one' who will appear to open, expand and become 'more so' when the D/s dynamic is agreed. So I wanted to ask: who else has experienced this lost (or gained) in translation /move into a bdsm relationship?

laurell3 -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/20/2007 2:53:11 PM)
Prinny, I think that happens with all relationships, we tend to go through a honeymoon phase where everything is great and wonderful and full of potential and eventually hit the stage where we see the true person and have to accept their weaknesses and limitations or not. This may be further compounded by the fact that we may not know the person in their role at first and seeing that in action can bring about new limitations and weaknesses to accept or not. Not having balance in one's life is a rather large limitation for me. However, I do think I have found that there is a perception out there that communication is limited to one side of the d/s equation and it's not one I'm willing to accept personally. Hearing that a person has needs regardless of the fact that they are submissive I have found seems to be a unique quality unfortunately.

Jeffff -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/20/2007 3:05:12 PM)
Laurell......if that is true, then those people are doomed. Prinny I have had that happen too. Maybe sometimes, we get so consumed in our roles, we forget that we are all complete people, living real lives. Jeff

RCdc -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/20/2007 3:24:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff Laurell......if that is true, then those people are doomed. Prinny I have had that happen too. Maybe sometimes, we get so consumed in our roles, we forget that we are all complete people, living real lives. Jeff I agree with this. People get set into roles - to quote phoebes boyfriend in 'Friends' everyones so 'define me!define me!' Instead of just focusing on the whole. In the relationship I am in now, we haven't had this issue because we were both very honest and whole to begin with and didn;t live a role, but were simply who we are. I admit, this was the first relationship I have been in that I didn't second guess. It was a conscious effort and the fact that Darcy never gave me the chance to second guess because communication was open from the start. I believe that was because we wasn;t actually looking for a relationship and allowed everything to spill out. When you are really into starting a relationship you tend to walk on eggshells and not be yourself in case your afraid of scaring of anyone who may have potential. Thats not meant to sound all yay we have a great relationship and gloat, but that it's the first time something like that happened to either of us - where the other person didnt have defined expectations and behaviour. Starting as friends gives you that and it's a huge blessing. Thats not to say I haven't had relationships in the past that wasn't pressured into expectations and preconceived ideals... but that is what makes relationships get 'lost'. the.dark.

sexyred1 -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/20/2007 3:31:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: Jeffff Laurell......if that is true, then those people are doomed. Prinny I have had that happen too. Maybe sometimes, we get so consumed in our roles, we forget that we are all complete people, living real lives. Jeff I agree with this. People get set into roles - to quote phoebes boyfriend in 'Friends' everyones so 'define me!define me!' Instead of just focusing on the whole. In the relationship I am in now, we haven't had this issue because we were both very honest and whole to begin with and didn;t live a role, but were simply who we are. I admit, this was the first relationship I have been in that I didn't second guess. It was a conscious effort and the fact that Darcy never gave me the chance to second guess because communication was open from the start. I believe that was because we wasn;t actually looking for a relationship and allowed everything to spill out. When you are really into starting a relationship you tend to walk on eggshells and not be yourself in case your afraid of scaring of anyone who may have potential. Thats not meant to sound all yay we have a great relationship and gloat, but that it's the first time something like that happened to either of us - where the other person didnt have defined expectations and behaviour. Starting as friends gives you that and it's a huge blessing. Thats not to say I haven't had relationships in the past that wasn't pressured into expectations and preconceived ideals... but that is what makes relationships get 'lost'. the.dark. awww..not everyone can gloat, but you can. 'cause you and Darcy are too cute for words and you always offer me wine. but I only drink white not red, so make a note of it next time. [;)]

RCdc -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/20/2007 3:36:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 awww..not everyone can gloat, but you can. 'cause you and Darcy are too cute for words and you always offer me wine. but I only drink white not red, so make a note of it next time. [;)] White for red - totally got it![;)] the.dark.

Prinsexx -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/20/2007 3:36:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 However, I do think I have found that there is a perception out there that communication is limited to one side of the d/s equation and it's not one I'm willing to accept personally. Quite trimely this...as it just happened to me (and I hope he is reading this)....in private mail here. I was really curious about someone, whom, mistakenly, I had assumed was a whole, eloquent, interesting, creaive and intelligent person. i asked some questions that's all, nothing very intrusive, how could it be by mail....he has immediately answered back in a dynamic, dominant aka controlling as hell and cut me to the quick....wow I am just rerally interested in people....my mistake obviously.

Prinsexx -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/20/2007 3:41:39 PM)
quote: Thats not to say I haven't had relationships in the past that wasn't pressured into expectations and preconceived ideals... but that is what makes relationships get 'lost'. dearest d & d yes absolutely I agree with this. It's worse actually when one is a switch as the dynamic tends to be on a conitnuum and then that 'fixed' dynamic within a person well I erxperience it as a form of exclusion, closed mimdedness. How to start off as friends.....ahh there's the thing. Mine's red as well by the way.

adoracat -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/20/2007 5:23:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 However, I do think I have found that there is a perception out there that communication is limited to one side of the d/s equation and it's not one I'm willing to accept personally. Quite trimely this...as it just happened to me (and I hope he is reading this)....in private mail here. I was really curious about someone, whom, mistakenly, I had assumed was a whole, eloquent, interesting, creaive and intelligent person. i asked some questions that's all, nothing very intrusive, how could it be by mail....he has immediately answered back in a dynamic, dominant aka controlling as hell and cut me to the quick....wow I am just rerally interested in people....my mistake obviously. i'm sorry that happened to you, Prinny. i feel absolutely blessed that i CAN talk to my Daddy about anything, dare to speak my mind and disagree, dare to be a bit of a smartass if we're talking casually, and at the same time be absolutely secure in knowing that i know my place with him, and his with me. kitten, blessed.

DesFIP -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/20/2007 5:29:51 PM)
My experience was otherwise. We started with a more limited sort of relationship, bondage, sex and some d/s lite but quickly moved into friendship and lovers with integration of our whole lives. At this point we're even doing business together.

LittleWench -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/20/2007 6:54:07 PM)
quote: I'm trying to work out: 1. how much of that loss is down to me shifting my experience/perception of them and 2 how much was their changing. narrowing, shutting down or limiting their communication with me. Probably a little from column A and a little from column B. When my partner and I were vanilla we communicated about everything, even if it was arguing with each other, we still threw words at each other, feelings at each other. Now that we have shifted to a D/s dynamic I see us being caught up in our roles, and as the submissive I am communicating less, and he is giving me less room to communicate because we are trying to fit into being dominant and submissive, rather than making domination and submission fit us. If we don't keep check on this, we are in danger of losing our relationship in the translation. I will echo Jefff's point and say that we have moments where we are so consumed in our roles, that we forget that we are real people, trying to lead a real life, and this is just one aspect of it. If I believed in the notion of "the one" he would be my one, but that doesn't mean that everything automatically fits into place.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/20/2007 7:26:34 PM)
So difficult to be "in role" all the time. I had the hardest time getting my (very former) slave to understand that we could go to the grocery, cook dinner, watch a movie, and play with our birds and STILL be master and slave, in spite of there being no "play" as such. I think after a long--vv long!--time of knowing another person we can get to the point of knowing each other to the point of reading "minds", but even then we have to remember to use our out loud voices.

Kindandcruel -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/20/2007 7:42:45 PM)
The difficulty that I have found is that I have been living this type of lifestyle to the point that it is a natural part of who I am.With that said, I ahve always expected communication with my slaves to be a 2 way interaction. There is no question that I am in control, yet at the same time I cannot read minds... and although the overall focus is upon my wnats and desires, I find my own personal pleasure in creating pleasure for my slave. Yet, without communication I have no Idea as to what she needs or wants for pleasure... be it sexual, play, exteended training or even dining out or traveling to see a play. Just as a comment... it has always been interesting for people or slaves saying that they are looking for The One as if that was something you found at a market or a store. When people set up specific expectations of others or specifications of The One that are so narrow, then they will always lose out on life and the adventure of discovery. If you set in your mind an image of what a Master should act like or be, then you are setting yourself up for failure and unhappiness. Espeically if you do not communicate those expectations... Masters are not mind readers, yet so often they are pushed into a guessing game to understand what the slave has in mind. This is totally insane behavior... Another point is that not all Masters are extraverts nor have the gift of a smooth tongue... in fact, those with a smooth tongue are often the fakers. Just a few thoughts...

RCdc -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/21/2007 3:07:46 AM)
This is Darcy As *.the.dark.* mentioned, when we first began communicating there was no intention of any relationship other than friendship, and so we were able to be completely open and honest with each other on how we felt about pretty much everything. For me this was extremely liberating, as in all of my previous relationships, without exception, there had been parts of me, or parts of my past, that had remained hidden in the shadows, and thus nobody had ever known the complete, whole, warts and all Darcy. As a result I am the happiest I have ever been in a relationship, because I know that I'm not perfect, never have been and never will be, but *.the.dark.* knows of all my flaws, of all my past 'secrets', and has become the first person ever to have an 'access all areas' pass to my psyche, and thus to the very soul of the man that I am. The effect of the whole BDSM dynamic on a relationship is an interesting question, Prinny. Though *.the.dark.* has been aware of, and comfortable with, her calling in this arena for many, many years, it wasn't until we connected that I realised that I had essentially been indulging my dominant tendencies in my life all along. As a result of us both 'knowing ourselves', as it were, we never actually consciously see any division between what could be termed the BDSM side of our relationship and the vanilla side. As *.the.dark.'s D-type, the nature of our relationship is such that I do not need (or indeed desire) to constantly assert my authority, or demand that she perform certain actions or tasks to 'prove' her submission to me. Instead, I just 'am' who I am, and she is just who she is. Every relationship's dynamic is different (and oh, how useful it would be if some of the wannabe Masters and Doms could only realise that there is no rule book - you either are* a dominant personality in your relationship or you aren't), and ours just happens without any conscious thought or effort. The real key to our 'success' (if that's the right term) of our relationship is our ability to openly communicate, whether the subject is a positive or a negative one. Unlike previous relationships I feel no need to hide my thoughts or desires from *.the.dark.* in the way that I have previously. I don't feel I have to deny myself that which I desire to do, providing that I communicate my needs to her. In summary, I feel blessed that we were able to begin our relationship on such an open and honest footing, because I cannot express in mere words how liberating and wonderful it feels to have her move through my mind, my heart and my soul without restriction, and for me to do the same through hers.

batshalom -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/21/2007 5:52:34 AM)
I agree with laurell about the honeymoon phase, although at my age I have become slightly jaded and conservative when it comes expectations of people, knowing that we all rear our ugly heads eventually. Prior, it was disappointing to find that the Master of the Universe had some really horrendous hangups and personality problems, and the Dom of the Century wasn't particularly good at reading necessary wants and needs. Being in love feels so good each time that it puts our blinders on. We've all done it, lived through it, but each time it feels like this is THE one, a relationship to end all relationships. It's wonderful to wallow in someone else's perfection ... but the fall from grace can be depressing - "so he's human after all ... rats." So, I try to not project my desires on anyone else, and I probably go too far in hanging back in the shallow end of the pool when it's safe to swim under the rope ... but ... live, learn, and go to therapy, eh? ~grinning~

Prinsexx -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/21/2007 9:20:13 AM)
quote: If we don't keep check on this, we are in danger of losing our relationship in the translation. I will echo Jefff's point and say that we have moments where we are so consumed in our roles, that we forget that we are real people, trying to lead a real life, and this is just one aspect of it. ORIGINAL: LittleWench This is like a playback of a well-worn groove in my relationships. I wish I personally could find a way around it.

Prinsexx -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/21/2007 9:23:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: batshalom So, I try to not project my desires on anyone else, and I probably go too far in hanging back in the shallow end of the pool when it's safe to swim under the rope ... but ... live, learn, and go to therapy, eh? ~grinning~ I wish I could find a good therapist lol..... I know projection of desires onto another is the nechanism whereby all the false assumptions and unfi=ulfillable expectations get to look like reality.....but without projections it means that I could just go submit to anyone....and I've been there too......

Prinsexx -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/21/2007 9:29:12 AM)
Thank you Darcy. Phew....going to get a cup of tea, walk the dog and reflect on what you have said before responding. All I can say for now is that I fully understand the experience of being 'naturally' submissive abd there being no role play. It's the role play 'feel' that freaks me out, the I want to be your door mat and kiss your feet, my darling on my knees to you before I have even met you crap and the silence you slut bitch text message......

Mercnbeth -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/21/2007 10:31:30 AM)
apologies to .thedark. for snipping her post and using her words, but this part of her post: quote: I believe that was because we wasn;t actually looking for a relationship and allowed everything to spill out. is what this slave believes to be the main reason for our success and happiness. this slave wasn't looking for "the One", but losing her old "self" to become Master's slave has been the opportunity for her to experience unconditional love for another...a partnership not bound by the tie of blood or legal status, but the most profound, deeply satisfying and spiritually uplifting relationship she has ever known.

Prinsexx -> RE: Lost (or gained) in translation? (12/21/2007 11:59:33 AM)
I have just been told by mail that my opinated ways are outweighing all my other attributes....wow! given that the few emails I have sent can;t possibly outweigh ALL my other attributes, which surely he can't have gleaned already....than I would say this is a clear case og HIM projecting his opinions onto me...also to be told I speak psychu babble when he knows full well that is just a mean dig at me.... anyway enough of him....and following on from merc and Beth.....it would be simply great to be able to 'spill out' the contents of my head, mu stream of consciousness, feel safe to do so, feel that that was part of my submission and this find safety and therefore unconditional acceptance by a dom.... that has to come first surely before he would thus decide how to shapt my behaviour, how to contain it, how to mould iyt for his own pleasure....... I'm clearer indeed more clearer than ever about the differences between domination and control........

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