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Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 12:48:58 PM

Phin

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Joined: 2/26/2007
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A conversation I had with a potential play partner stemmed this thread, and she does read these message boards, so names will remain unknown to protect the innocent. We worked it out between us, but I was wondering what others thought of this.

We all know that there are risks involved in this lifestyle, and many of us trust near strangers to tie us up, to gag us, to carry weapons, many very possibly deadly, and to do things to us that could possibly sevearly hurt or injure us. Many times we do this in a privite settings that once a safety call has been made (if one had been set up), there is little recourse.

If you are going to trust someone with this, why would you limit the play that the both of you enjoy? this is up to and including knife and breathplay. Now if these are established hard limits, or even if you are not sure if you would like this sort of play, the limit is a limit, period. If you are putting your life in someone's hands, to me it shows a great deal of trust, why are you not trusting them to use judgement on the type of play that you do?

Waiting patiently for the flames
Phin

_____________________________

"Isn't wonderful when our bruises show what we hide in the back of our heads?"Fayetteville band, Nephilym

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Post #: 1

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 1:03:56 PM

daddyncherry

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Joined: 10/9/2007
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Hi Phin,

i can only give one possible reason and it's kind of from a bit of experience.

You mentioned knife play and breath play, but it could kind of go for other things too.

Although i may trust someone enough to play with them, and they may have some experience, and i may think that we are on the same page about things...there are varying degrees of most activities. What might be intense to one may be yawnable to another....you may think you're on the same page, but maybe not so much.

#1, i don't know how much experience and in what way they want to do those particular activities. Example: Knife play....To some this could mean cutting plain and simple to someone else it could be the threat of cutting, abrasion, whatever.....breath play: To some this could be hands around the throat breath play or it could mean the safer hands over the mouth and nose type of breath play.

#2. The person, if a first time play partner, doesn't know "me" either. They don't know what i've experienced, how i will react to things etc.

So IMO i wouldn't want to jump from point A to point Z with someone on the first time out of the gate....nothing wrong with going slower and putting some limits that can be pushed in the future....

_____________________________

Hugs,
cherry

Walking through life, and fear with a smile on my face.
Walking directly through the eye of the hurricane...and through to the other side..without fear....realizing everything will be okay. :)

being obedient 1day at a time

(in reply to Phin)

Post #: 2

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 1:27:09 PM

chellekitty

Posts: 3923
Joined: 3/27/2005
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Limits are limits because they are limits....not because you don't trust the other person...the limit is short for limitation...the kind of limitations most people list are the mental limitations because the physical limitations are assumed (ie. you can't fly and if you die you can't consent anymore)...the point of listed limitations is that if you go beyond that limit it will cause mental harm (irreparable damage) to the s-type...though not mutually exclusive of trust...it is not interchangable....

chelle

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

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Post #: 3

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 1:50:32 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Dear Phin, Ladies and Gentlemen;

For my own reasons, I know what I am capable of but, the other person is not. It is my sense of duty/responsibility/honor to never put someone in a position where they feel threatened, overwhelmed and over sensitized. I do want to have a lot of this person later--I do not do scenes as if it will be the first-only-last scene I ever do. I would like this person to come back and ask me for more and at their pace; especially new folks. I want them to enjoy play and know that having limits will be expected and one worry set aside. Its called respect and earning someone's respect by deeds, actions, behavior and standing to a standard which is so easily to cross over, to fudge/cheat and or manipulate.

I also am most aware what my sense of judgment may not be equal to another. Again, the example of a glass half filled or seen as a glass half empty. Judgment is individualized and though we may feel the same way, how it is processed is different. I also feel women and men do have a sense of judgment that is the same however, how it comes to be takes a different path entirely. It is that journey of judgment...the rational, emotions, gut instincts, senses and sense' tricks and mind manipulation/sense of being, self, awareness all plays a part in this.

In addition -- society judgments so commonly demonstrated when in cases of sexual assaults; there is an immediate 'rush to judgment/opinion' that the woman did something to provoke the attack, such as dressing, behavior and such. I know when I put myself in the vunerable position my mind was always rolling--will this be rape or will this be a beautiful experience. I believe in my own case--I like to have faith in others and sometimes I trust too much. Knowing the consequences do anchor my judgment and having listen to my gut instincts--I obey.

Further, I think a lot of times fear of the unknown, especially with fire play, edge play, pain play and such--dulls the wish to trust and also adds doubt to the judgment of others--it has to be proven that this type of behavior won't do harm and injury that disables and or scars.
Judgment adds to the thumb up/down and also adds to one's reputation as well.

The hardest thing to overcome though; is self judgment and trusting one's own judgment--at times it reflects on others however, by staying true to standards set--it will add to the respect and reputation of those who use good judgment consistantly.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Phin)

Post #: 4

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 2:05:16 PM

ottRopesandKnots

Posts: 105
Joined: 9/12/2007
Status: offline

Phin,
I've found that I've earned the priviledge you speak of over time. The beginning is always a getting to know you period on both sides of the equation. I need to learn about my sub, know how to interpret their reactions, and be able to properly anticipate how things are going to affect them. I need to learn about their past experiences, both in BDSM and often in life to grasp the bigger picture of who they are and how what I do affects them. My sub also needs a period to get 'comfortable' with me and the things I do. I've generally found that once that happens some of the limits 'loosen up' and my subs are more willing to experience the things I suggest they might enjoy (with discussed permission), even if those things were 'limits' at the offset.

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 5

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 2:14:45 PM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
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To me, some acts are very intimate and so while I enjoy them, I can't imagine doing them with anyone other than my owner. On top of that, some activities are more risky, such as breathplay, and as much as I enjoy it I can't imagine doing it with someone who I didn't trust to the level of them owning me.

Thats at least two reasons from me why there would be certain activities that were restricted for the person that owned me - for reasons of trust and intimacy.

C~

< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 12/19/2007 2:15:18 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Phin)

Post #: 6

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 3:22:31 PM

SimplyMichael

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For the same reason people don't always fuck on the first date...

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Post #: 7

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 3:27:47 PM

laurell3

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Joined: 5/5/2005
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Ok Edited because I realized your talking about limited the first few times of play, but it's kind of the same answer. You don't know them. They don't know you. No two people do the same thing the same way and until you do know them, establishing a safety net or comfort zone is important. I never play the first time with gags/blindfolds or hard restraints. It doesn't matter how much I trust or like the person. Being able to communicate or indicate there's a problem is important. I sure wouldn't do breath play or seriously intense play the first few times with someone new on either side as we don't know each other's physical and emotional limits.

ah hell....Michael put it much better...for the same reason they don't fuck on the first date (although, that I will do

).

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 12/19/2007 3:35:58 PM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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Post #: 8

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 3:34:28 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

The hardest thing to overcome though; is self judgment and trusting one's own judgment--

This i agree with absolutely.......it's difficult setting a limit outside of the scene....as once involved my head space just shifts and it's always like just for a moment i actually want no limits because evenn having set a limit feels like exercising control....but you know, pain hurts, hell it really does and what feels ok one day feels like its way beyond tolerance the next...that must be freaky for a Dom having a submissive who doesn't say no one day but definitely says no to the same activity the next....
limits are constantly in flux and to me the most prized and valueable feature or characteristic of aa Dominant is that they are sensitive to that aspect of pre-determined limits as really, in practice there are no such things even though we set them as if to make the whole dynamic quantifiable.

(in reply to LadyHugs)

Post #: 9

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 3:37:02 PM

GoddessMine

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Joined: 9/27/2007
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What if the limits are kind of....silly? Like when I used to do real time, this one sub's limit was that I couldn't look him in the eyes during a session -wtf??

Love,
GM

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Pleasure of the Text? Pleasure of the Goddess, more like it.

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Post #: 10

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 3:39:40 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Most of us make an educated guess from discussions that the person we are playing with is not Jack the Ripper reincarnated. So far, we've all been right or we wouldn't still be here. But that's a far distance from knowing that this hot guy is knowledgable about breath play, that he has recently taken a CPR class, or that he isn't clumsy and won't cut us instead of just dragging the knife by accident.

Not to mention that if being choked brings back bad memories and you can only do it with a trusted partner who you have told the whole story to, that it means you are also willing to do it with Mr One Night Stand who doesn't know jack shit about your past because he hasn't earned that yet.

We play light the first time with someone we don't know. Now if the dude is renowned for his fire play workshops, and you've seen him do it twelve times, that's different. He has earned your trust in doing fireplay which does not translate over to skill in 12' bullwhips.

There's different degrees in trust. You have coworkers who you trust not to steal the two dollars in change off your desk but that doesn't mean you trust them sufficiently to give them power of attorney while you disappear for a year sabbatical.

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Post #: 11

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 3:57:04 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessMine

What if the limits are kind of....silly? Like when I used to do real time, this one sub's limit was that I couldn't look him in the eyes during a session -wtf??

Love,
GM

lol...just out of curiosity, WHY?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to GoddessMine)

Post #: 12

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 4:15:44 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessMine

What if the limits are kind of....silly? Like when I used to do real time, this one sub's limit was that I couldn't look him in the eyes during a session -wtf??

Love,
GM

We had a silly hard limit thread a couple of weeks ago. Silly or not, you respect it or you decline to play. Breaking it reveals you to be untrustworthy.

And duct tape on my body, although I know it's considered silly by most, is still a hard limit. A lot of the others have gone by the wayside but that one never will.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to GoddessMine)

Post #: 13

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 5:07:14 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline

This is an easy one for me. I have a couple of hard limits. Those are MINE and have nothing to do with the partner with whom I am playing.
And I have limits, which are not mine.
Those limits are the limits based on how little I know someone.
I would not, for instance, allow someone who is learning to use a whip, to whip me. I would not allow someone I haven't checked out, tie me.
Those limits are not my limits.
They are the limits I have for an un-tried partner.
It makes sense to know yourself and what you find tolerable or intolerable
It makes an equal amount of sense to know that before handing over the keys to your body, you know that your partner can drive.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phin

If you are going to trust someone with this, why would you limit the play that the both of you enjoy? this is up to and including knife and breathplay. Now if these are established hard limits, or even if you are not sure if you would like this sort of play, the limit is a limit, period. If you are putting your life in someone's hands, to me it shows a great deal of trust, why are you not trusting them to use judgement on the type of play that you do?

Phin

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to Phin)

Post #: 14

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 5:13:59 PM

lockmeupplease

Posts: 202
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

For the same reason people don't always fuck on the first date...

Well Said!

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 15

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 5:52:10 PM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phin

A conversation I had with a potential play partner stemmed this thread, and she does read these message boards, so names will remain unknown to protect the innocent. We worked it out between us, but I was wondering what others thought of this.

We all know that there are risks involved in this lifestyle, and many of us trust near strangers to tie us up, to gag us, to carry weapons, many very possibly deadly, and to do things to us that could possibly sevearly hurt or injure us. Many times we do this in a privite settings that once a safety call has been made (if one had been set up), there is little recourse.

If you are going to trust someone with this, why would you limit the play that the both of you enjoy? this is up to and including knife and breathplay. Now if these are established hard limits, or even if you are not sure if you would like this sort of play, the limit is a limit, period. If you are putting your life in someone's hands, to me it shows a great deal of trust, why are you not trusting them to use judgement on the type of play that you do?

Waiting patiently for the flames
Phin

I don't think it's a case of trust; I think it's a case of

'you might do something that I don't want to do so I need to have some sort of control over what we DO do."

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

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Post #: 16

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 5:54:54 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

We all know that there are risks involved in this lifestyle, and many of us trust near strangers to tie us up, to gag us, to carry weapons, many very possibly deadly, and to do things to us that could possibly sevearly hurt or injure us. Many times we do this in a privite settings that once a safety call has been made (if one had been set up), there is little recourse.

I did not trust near strangers to do anything like the above to me, it took me many months to trust Sinergy to tie me up. I think that you assume that many of us would let someone tie us up from the start, when that is not necessarily the case.

It took me many more months to be comfortable enough to allow other sorts of play, and that is as much about my trust in myself as my trust in anyone else

_____________________________

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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Post #: 17

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 8:54:12 PM

GoddessMine

Posts: 250
Joined: 9/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessMine

What if the limits are kind of....silly? Like when I used to do real time, this one sub's limit was that I couldn't look him in the eyes during a session -wtf??

Love,
GM

We had a silly hard limit thread a couple of weeks ago. Silly or not, you respect it or you decline to play. Breaking it reveals you to be untrustworthy.

And duct tape on my body, although I know it's considered silly by most, is still a hard limit. A lot of the others have gone by the wayside but that one never will.

Woops, must have missed that thread! Well, of course I respected it! I respect the green. It was actually a fun time because it forced Me to be a little more creative than usual. *shrug*

Love,
GM

_____________________________

Pleasure of the Text? Pleasure of the Goddess, more like it.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 18

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 9:12:30 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

For me it's because my limits have nothing to do with the other person and everything to do with my own sense of rightness.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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Post #: 19

RE: Limits on enjoyed play (slight rant) - 12/19/2007 9:48:46 PM

tasha_tart

Posts: 385
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline

Well, speaking for myself, it is a big leap from getting my ass beaten to breath play.

I have engaged in play with people I did not know particularly well ( though not total strangers) with little fear of serious harm. However, to ramp that up to breath play, or other higher-risk activities (in my mind anyway) would require a much greater level of trust.

Just my two cents.

Tasha

(in reply to Phin)

Post #: 20

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