Knowledge = Power, but what next?

Knowledge = Power, but what next? (Full Version)

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Ryugen -> Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:13:32 PM)
Sad to say this morning I thought I had a bunch of interesting questions to do with BDSM that I could post in the General forum. I'm afraid at the time my brain was too tired to keep the ideas and they have slunk away to hide amoungst the half-asleep neurons in my head, awaiting for a wakeup call to find them. So, until then, I thought I'd post something else that came to mind that might make for interesting -ology discussion. If Knowledge is Power currently, what will be the next thing that is Power? Also, what event do you think is most likely to make knowledge obsolete and thus bring about whatever it is that you think will be the next power? I dunno about it myself really, but perhaps as soon as everyone knows or has access to every piece of information then maybe understanding will be power. I'm not too sure and am slightly too tired to cook up a better explaination myself. Anyway, I look forward to reading your responces! [;)]

Stephann -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:17:34 PM)
Sorry, you're not quite accurate. Technology is power. As the Inca, as the Apache, ask the Dacians, ask West Africans in the 14-1800s. The ability to wage war, technologically, has always given power to the individual and to civilizations. It's not what you know, nor who you know, but what you do with what you know. That's what technological capacity represents. Bill Gates is a prime example of a man who wasn't very smart, but was smart and savvy enough to leverage what he did know, well. Stephan

sexyred1 -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:18:13 PM)
do you honestly think there will come a time when everyone knows or has access to all the information out there? the fact is, knowledge is power, but knowledge with understanding is more powerful. there will never be a time when we catch up to learning everything there is in the universe to know and even if we did, something new would be developed in the next nanosecond. so there is no catching up, only trying to stay marketable.

Ryugen -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:19:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann Sorry, you're not quite accurate. Technology is power. As the Inca, as the Apache, ask the Dacians, ask West Africans in the 14-1800s. The ability to wage war, technologically, has always given power to the individual and to civilizations. It's not what you know, nor who you know, but what you do with what you know. That's what technological capacity represents. Bill Gates is a prime example of a man who wasn't very smart, but was smart and savvy enough to leverage what he did know, well. Stephan You kinda retorted yourself by then going on to say that what you do with the knowledge is power. But let me explain, if you didn't have the knowledge, you'd have nothing to work with. Therefore that still says knowledge is power. You don't need to prove you have knowledge to have it. Also, Bill Gates was a software hacker, I'd say he's one smart cookie.

RCdc -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:21:13 PM)
Knowledge - power. And absolute power corrupts absolutely. I don't believe in knowledge being powerful. Those that think that have already lost any power they may have. It's all proverbs I know, but the more you know, the less you understand. the.dark.

Ryugen -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:21:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 do you honestly think there will come a time when everyone knows or has access to all the information out there? the fact is, knowledge is power, but knowledge with understanding is more powerful. there will never be a time when we catch up to learning everything there is in the universe to know and even if we did, something new would be developed in the next nanosecond. so there is no catching up, only trying to stay marketable. Maybe when we have discovered every natural law of the universe there will be nothing left to discover and then everyone will know everthing (although that hinges on whatever personal belief system you have)? Heh, Although I admit that such a thing would take a long time to do.

pahunkboy -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:22:18 PM)
timing is everything. a computer before electricy would be useless. one can have great resoures and talent but if the timing is wrong nothing works.

Ryugen -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:22:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark Knowledge - power. And absolute power corrupts absolutely. I don't believe in knowledge being powerful. Those that think that have already lost any power they may have. It's all proverbs I know, but the more you know, the less you understand. the.dark. Maybe we just need bigger, better brains, or more education in using them [:D]

Ryugen -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:25:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy timing is everything. a computer before electricy would be useless. one can have great resoures and talent but if the timing is wrong nothing works. I would have great interest in a universe where the computer was invented before the concept of electricity, expecially in the development of the world which invented it and the systems of the society. I agree with you about the timing though.

philosophy -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:27:20 PM)
...knowledge isn't power.......the ability to act on knowledge is. It's all very well knowing that if you had a long enough lever and a place to sit it you could move the world...but unless you actually have such a lever and such a place, you're powerless to move the world. Perhaps a more accurate platitude would be knowledge + opportunity to exercise knowledge = power

Ryugen -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:31:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy ...knowledge isn't power.......the ability to act on knowledge is. It's all very well knowing that if you had a long enough lever and a place to sit it you could move the world...but unless you actually have such a lever and such a place, you're powerless to move the world. Perhaps a more accurate platitude would be knowledge + opportunity to exercise knowledge = power Just because you know that a well placed lever can move the world, doesn't mean you know where to get or how to use that lever. So, you'd still need to know quite a bit to be able to use that lever to move the world. If you knew how to get a hold of, and use, all of the resources involved, including time, to complete something, then you're set. Small edit to correct wording.

pahunkboy -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:35:45 PM)
this is sorta like which came first the chicken or the egg. I think there is more then 1 right answere.

philosophy -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:36:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ryugen quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy ...knowledge isn't power.......the ability to act on knowledge is. It's all very well knowing that if you had a long enough lever and a place to sit it you could move the world...but unless you actually have such a lever and such a place, you're powerless to move the world. Perhaps a more accurate platitude would be knowledge + opportunity to exercise knowledge = power Just because you know that a well placed lever can move the world, doesn't mean you know where to get or how to use that lever. So, you'd still need to know quite a bit to be able to use that lever to move the world. If you knew how to get a hold of, and use, all of the resources involved, including time, to complete something, then you're set. Small edit to correct wording. ..interesting logic. Of course if you characterise all the facets of the opportunity to do something as knowledge then you can argue that knowledge is power. However that also requires a deterministic universe, one where quantum mechanics has been changed from providing probabilistic answers to absolute ones. Good luck with that. Seems to me though, that as long as we can only know the vector or velocity of a particle, one or the other, then knowledge can not be absolute. Knowledge can not be the only factor involved.

Ryugen -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:37:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy this is sorta like which came first the chicken or the egg. I think there is more then 1 right answere. Awww, but I'm having fun debating...

Stephann -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:39:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ryugen You kinda retorted yourself by then going on to say that what you do with the knowledge is power. But let me explain, if you didn't have the knowledge, you'd have nothing to work with. Therefore that still says knowledge is power. You don't need to prove you have knowledge to have it. Also, Bill Gates was a software hacker, I'd say he's one smart cookie. I'd have to agree with philosophy here; technology represents what is done with knowledge. Without knowledge, there would be no technology. Without application, or action knowledge is more or less useless. Technology represents the application of that knowledge to further civilizations aims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra Stephan

Ryugen -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:39:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: Ryugen quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy ...knowledge isn't power.......the ability to act on knowledge is. It's all very well knowing that if you had a long enough lever and a place to sit it you could move the world...but unless you actually have such a lever and such a place, you're powerless to move the world. Perhaps a more accurate platitude would be knowledge + opportunity to exercise knowledge = power Just because you know that a well placed lever can move the world, doesn't mean you know where to get or how to use that lever. So, you'd still need to know quite a bit to be able to use that lever to move the world. If you knew how to get a hold of, and use, all of the resources involved, including time, to complete something, then you're set. Small edit to correct wording. ..interesting logic. Of course if you characterise all the facets of the opportunity to do something as knowledge then you can argue that knowledge is power. However that also requires a deterministic universe, one where quantum mechanics has been changed from providing probabilistic answers to absolute ones. Good luck with that. Seems to me though, that as long as we can only know the vector or velocity of a particle, one or the other, then knowledge can not be absolute. Knowledge can not be the only factor involved. Mmm, that is the problem, we don't know enough about the universe to be able to know everything. However in a human situation, i.e. between people; the more you know about where you are/are going, who is there, the greater society and business in the area, and the landscape, the greater personal gain you can draw out of it (or the greater gain for someone else as well).

sexyred1 -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:40:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ryugen quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 do you honestly think there will come a time when everyone knows or has access to all the information out there? the fact is, knowledge is power, but knowledge with understanding is more powerful. there will never be a time when we catch up to learning everything there is in the universe to know and even if we did, something new would be developed in the next nanosecond. so there is no catching up, only trying to stay marketable. Maybe when we have discovered every natural law of the universe there will be nothing left to discover and then everyone will know everthing (although that hinges on whatever personal belief system you have)? Heh, Although I admit that such a thing would take a long time to do. How do you that there aren't lightyears and lightyears of natural laws of the universe and multiple universes out there to discover? I think that no one can be so arrogant to ever assume that any human being, no matter how brilliant, will ever master or harness the powers and mysteries of what lies beyond us in this universe or the universe of the future. I like what philosophy had to say, that having knowledge plus the opportunity to exercise that knowledge is more applicable. I will also add the choices one makes in utilizing their knowledge is a key factor in how that knowledge is disseminated or even witheld. Haven't you ever met a brilliant person who was stupid about life and someone less educated who survived and thrived through instincts? Who is more powerful of a person, the educated one or the uneducated one? And, we know that there is a vast store of knowledge in various areas of our lives relating to medical breakthroughs, for example, where vital research information is being suppressed, because the release of this knowledge might upset the power of say, the pharmaceutical industry?

Ryugen -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:46:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 quote: ORIGINAL: Ryugen quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 do you honestly think there will come a time when everyone knows or has access to all the information out there? the fact is, knowledge is power, but knowledge with understanding is more powerful. there will never be a time when we catch up to learning everything there is in the universe to know and even if we did, something new would be developed in the next nanosecond. so there is no catching up, only trying to stay marketable. Maybe when we have discovered every natural law of the universe there will be nothing left to discover and then everyone will know everthing (although that hinges on whatever personal belief system you have)? Heh, Although I admit that such a thing would take a long time to do. How do you that there aren't lightyears and lightyears of natural laws of the universe and multiple universes out there to discover? I think that no one can be so arrogant to ever assume that any human being, no matter how brilliant, will ever master or harness the powers and mysteries of what lies beyond us in this universe or the universe of the future. I like what philosophy had to say, that having knowledge plus the opportunity to exercise that knowledge is more applicable. I will also add the choices one makes in utilizing their knowledge is a key factor in how that knowledge is disseminated or even witheld. Haven't you ever met a brilliant person who was stupid about life and someone less educated who survived and thrived through instincts? Who is more powerful of a person, the educated one or the uneducated one? And, we know that there is a vast store of knowledge in various areas of our lives relating to medical breakthroughs, for example, where vital research information is being suppressed, because the release of this knowledge might upset the power of say, the pharmaceutical industry? I believe that in an infinite universe, anything is possible. I do not know enough about this universe to say it is infinite, but I have seen many humans imagine things that do not already exist and then go about making them realities. Perhaps the knowledge talked about is the knowledge of the entire being, including instinct inherent in the body?

sexyred1 -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 12:50:06 PM)
Possibly, but I am not quite seeing where you are going with this general topic, unless you just wanted to start an intellectual thread among all the fun ones we had all day. [;)]

Ryugen -> RE: Knowledge = Power, but what next? (12/19/2007 1:06:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 Possibly, but I am not quite seeing where you are going with this general topic, unless you just wanted to start an intellectual thread among all the fun ones we had all day. [;)] I would say that latter is definitely what I am trying to do. I enjoy intellectual debate very much, even if I sometimes end up arguing points I don't believe in merely for the sake of an interesting debate [:D]

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