RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/19/2007 2:16:47 PM)

A quick injection of truth here.

If you are sexually active you most likely already have one or more strains of HPV. Luckily most are reasonably harmless and of all those strains only 2 are really likely to cause cervical cancer.*

The vaccine is aimed at those strains as well as two strains that cause genital warts. Clinical research indicates that it works pretty well. Of course as with all public health vaccinations there isn't going to be some dramatic moment when the benefit of the shot becomes immdeiately clear to you. But for the population as a whole more vaccinations means less cervical cancer and fewer people with those 4 strains of HPV. Both definitely being desirable outcomes.

Now on to the article referenced by the OP. Mike Adams is a quack and a liar. He claims HPV doesn't cause cervical cancer. This would be surprising in the extreme to anyone who has ever used HeLa cells in the lab. HeLa cells are cervical cancer cells derived from Henrietta Lacks in the 1950's and survive to this day in labs all over the world. HeLa cells differ from normal cervical cells in a number of ways, most prominently in having many copies of HPV (strain 18) inserted into its genes. HPV18 is one of the HPV strains targeted by Gardacil.

*Other things cause cervical cancer but estimates are 90% at least is HPV related.



Vendaval -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/19/2007 4:37:00 PM)

MD1,
 
You are making assumptions about myself and any potential offspring.
Please refrain from doing so in the future.
 
Vendaval



TNstepsout -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/19/2007 5:04:10 PM)

OK I'm almost certain when I read the information this morning and watched the Toutube vid by Adams, that he had information from the FDA that stated that cervical cancer had not been proven to be linked to cervical cancer. So although the vaccine might guard against some types of HPV, is it really helping to prevent cancer?



DesFIP -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/19/2007 5:11:01 PM)

That's hardly a trustworthy source. Now if you can give me a link to the New England Journal of Medicine, then I'll believe it. With that said, my daughter did not get it when she got her meningitis vaccine prior to going off to college because the doctor has doubts about its efficacy since it doesn't prevent against all or even most of the strains.



sharainks -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/19/2007 5:24:30 PM)

The fact is for me that I don't trust the FDA to look out after public health interests.  One only has to look at the multitude of medications being taken off the market after years of complaints and side effects, up to and including lethal ones, to see govt. is not really interested in "public health." 

As far as studies go anyone can slant a study by manipulating the statistics.   When I studed philosophy we learned that the so called Scientific method" is actually the least valid form of reasoning.  Here in this country we consider the results "facts."   We then make statements like "people do not absorb anything through their skin."   Lo and behold along comes a treatment for baldness and several men become very ill and a few die from applying it due to the drop in their blood pressure.  Oops...new study...yes people do absorb things through their skin and now we have transdermal patches for everything. 

I'm not convinced that people in general, medical or otherwise, know anywhere near as much as they would like to claim they know.   Until they do I'm not buying into things that don't have a proven track record.

Gardisil did not and does not.  It was fast tracked through the FDA process.  Years from now and many complaints later the public will finally learn what the long term side effects are. 

I advised my 19 year old daughter not to get it.  The public health dept here in town doesn't even recommend it. 



Wildfleurs -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/19/2007 6:01:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sharainks

Here is a link to some interesting information on the vaccine Gardasil which was "mandatory" in some states for very young girls.  Supposedly it was supposed to prevent cervical cancer.  Now it seems that it may create more problems than it helps. 

When in the sam hill will the FDA do what is it supposed to and protect the public rather than lining the pockets of the phamaceutical companies?

http://www.newstarget.com/022405.html


I read the article and while I don't have a medical background, I do have a statistical background and quite frankly this article just looks like a lot of conjecture and bullshit.  What they use as "proof" of their claims are:

- A youtube video that the author of the article created.  Apparently they haven't read the article in the Journal of the American Medical Association that talks about the rediculously high error rate of immunization videos online. *
- His own "reports"
- A health advocate (as opposed to a researcher or medical doctor)
- A podcast with a "Dr. Steve" who isn't actually a medical doctor.

C~

* See: http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/extract/298/21/2482 or http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071205122536.htm



Wildfleurs -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/19/2007 6:08:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

OK I'm almost certain when I read the information this morning and watched the Toutube vid by Adams, that he had information from the FDA that stated that cervical cancer had not been proven to be linked to cervical cancer. So although the vaccine might guard against some types of HPV, is it really helping to prevent cancer?


No he *said* he had information from an FDA press release dated on March 31, 2003 and the only quote he is able to cobble together (notice the use of ...) is:

"Most women who become infected with HPV are able to eradicate the virus [without intervention] and suffer no apparent long-term consequences to their health... most infections are short-lived and not associated with cervical cancer."

There's a huge difference between most and all, especially for a federal scientific agency.  But had he bothered to read the entire press release he quotes he also would have seen:

"There are more than 100 types of HPVs. The test, the HC2 High-Risk HPV DNA Test, manufactured by Digene Corp., of Gaithersburg, Md., can identify 13 of the high-risk types associated with the development of cervical cancer. The HPV DNA test does not test for cancer, but for the HPV viruses that can cause cell changes in the cervix. If left untreated, these changes can eventually lead to cancer in some women." *

C~

See: http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2003/NEW00890.html






DomKen -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/19/2007 7:29:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

OK I'm almost certain when I read the information this morning and watched the Toutube vid by Adams, that he had information from the FDA that stated that cervical cancer had not been proven to be linked to cervical cancer. So although the vaccine might guard against some types of HPV, is it really helping to prevent cancer?

HPV causes cervical cancer. See HeLa cells.



TNstepsout -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/20/2007 5:27:47 AM)

OK, so I had a little more time to read through this stuff. Here's what I've come up with.

1. Most HPV infections disappear on their own in about 4 months (93%). If they don't they can lead to precancerous lesions and then cervical cancer.
2. Gardasil can prevent several, but not all, strains of HPV.
3. If Gardasil is used in young women who already have an HPV infection they are nearly 50% more likely to develop pre-cencerous lesions.
4. Currently there is no test being used to determine if women have an HPV infection before they are given Gardasil.
5. The long-term effects of the vaccine have not yet been studied.

So it's not quite as alarming as before, but still not a ringing endorsement for Gardasil.



DomKen -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/20/2007 7:33:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout
3. If Gardasil is used in young women who already have an HPV infection they are nearly 50% more likely to develop pre-cencerous lesions.

Which is why Gardasil is not recommended for a woman who has already become sexually active. If your UM's are having sex at 11 there is a lot more to be concerned with than this vaccine.



SageFemmexx -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/20/2007 2:37:27 PM)

I hate it when someone pulls the "I am doctor, I am God" card. I've delivered babies for twenty five years and I have learned that when any woman's or mother's intuition says NO--there's a good reason for it.

If the AMA or FDA gave credence to women's gut feelings and intuition there would be a lot LESS damage to human beings. Any time one of my mothers says...my due date isn't right---I don't want rhogam---I don't want my baby to be vaccinated, I stop, listen and ask why--mostly because I want to understand, not because I seek to change their stand on the subject. Anything to do with their bodies or their child's is THEIR business and by the Goddess--I respect that and follow suit.

My point of view is keep your laws off MY Body and MY child's Body.

Bet ya stats will show in a few years--mom's intuition was right.

Blessings,

Sage Femme ( French for wise woman--midwife)




sharainks -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/21/2007 3:45:27 AM)

Sage Femme,  I have the same problem with physicians who weigh in on things and have the attitude that their opinion is the be all end all of opinions. 

Its been a long time since I had much respect for the medical profession and that attitude is a large share of it.  The other share is the lack of knowledge about anything thats new and the reliance on excessive testing.  Before I decided to pull out of the pool of people who run to the dr. I was sick of getting tests that showed nothing and ran up huge expenses.  I've also known too many people that died waiting for a dr to figure out what is wrong so they can get treatment. 



sambamanslilgirl -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/21/2007 5:48:04 AM)

excuse me, doc, however who is the mother of my 2 UMs - you or me?  and if it's a dangerous choice that i'm making, then so be it.  it's a risk and decision i'm certainly willing to face their parent/guardian.

no amount of research or studies is going to convince me that mine could be "one less" with this injection. besides, how can you, doc, guarantee that this injection doesn't come with side effects which can interact to meds my teen is currently taking for her brain injury. 

so i'm justified in wanting to refuse the injection for mine.  i'm still the parent here not the government, doctors, etc etc. 



kittinSol -> RE: HPV vaccine may actually increase cervical lesions (12/21/2007 6:32:19 AM)

In defense of Doc1 I'd like to interject that 1) he didn't tell anybody what to do, but simply gave his professional opinion, and that 2) I read a lot of people's reactions on this threat as being knee-jerk and rather ill-informed.






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