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RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:11:16 AM   
Gardenista


Posts: 146
Joined: 12/6/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilKitty

I've been very appreciative of the time I spent as a sub/bottom. I started out with an Old Leather gay crowd, so beginning by bottoming was sort of a given. I officially subbed for 1 1/2 years & tried to find a submissive side of myself. No go. But I still felt like learning what I was doing to another's head when I play by experiencing it firsthand.
Wouldn't trade the time for anything! I think it helped make me as good a Domme as I am today. I've seen the advantages of learning from the bottom first. I've also seen Dommes & Doms who never tried it & I've seen their lacks. I don't think this is an absolute by any means. Some of us learn differently than others. But, in MY opinion, starting off as a bottom is an excellent way to learn.
Lady Cat


I was actually wondering if that particular myth had it's roots in the Old Guard. Not being very familiar with Leather history at all, I'm also wondering if we're dealing with a definition shift here. Like, maybe a sub "back then" meant more of a "bottom" today.

Not saying I agree with it, just saying that " To be a good top, be a good bottom first" makes more sense, if you look at top/bottom play as the art of sensation or pain play.

(in reply to EvilKitty)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:13:33 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I remember the 70's.........parts of them anyway......
...what was the question?


Timothy Leary




(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:15:05 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Please.......no more about the Old Guard.



Thank You
The Old Guard

(in reply to Gardenista)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:15:25 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Was there any sort of epidemic in 1943?

At least that is what I have gleaned thus far.

Ron

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:17:04 AM   
ctrlaltdelete


Posts: 284
Joined: 11/6/2007
Status: offline 		I am not sure - I have not been to North Dakota

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RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:17:13 AM   
Gardenista


Posts: 146
Joined: 12/6/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Please.......no more about the Old Guard.



Thank You
The Old Guard


Why not?

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:18:23 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Oddly enough..............

http://localhistory.kingston.vic.gov.au/htm/article/25.htm


The Center for Disease Control

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:21:04 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		did this affect submissives only, or were doms stronger for having survived it?

Is this strictly an Old Guard sort of thing?

These are the unsettling questions of our time.

They should concern us all.

My name is Ron, and I approve this message.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:21:16 AM   
Gardenista


Posts: 146
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Was there any sort of epidemic in 1943?

At least that is what I have gleaned thus far.

Ron


Maybe an epidemic of babies. =)  A slow-acting epidemic, that manifested some 20 years later. Symptoms of creativity, bad hair days, and other such signs of Total Social Collapse!


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:23:19 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dommeyouneed

how many of you think that the best D is one that was a sub

Labels mean nothing to me. It's the person; what's inside, that makes a person good or bad.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:24:45 AM   
Jeffff


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Vidal Sassoon

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:26:38 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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Status: offline 		Ok....We now return you to the thread is progress.


The head of a Major Network


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:28:25 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gardenista

quote:

ORIGINAL: EvilKitty

I've been very appreciative of the time I spent as a sub/bottom. I started out with an Old Leather gay crowd, so beginning by bottoming was sort of a given. I officially subbed for 1 1/2 years & tried to find a submissive side of myself. No go. But I still felt like learning what I was doing to another's head when I play by experiencing it firsthand.
Wouldn't trade the time for anything! I think it helped make me as good a Domme as I am today. I've seen the advantages of learning from the bottom first. I've also seen Dommes & Doms who never tried it & I've seen their lacks. I don't think this is an absolute by any means. Some of us learn differently than others. But, in MY opinion, starting off as a bottom is an excellent way to learn.
Lady Cat


I was actually wondering if that particular myth had it's roots in the Old Guard. Not being very familiar with Leather history at all, I'm also wondering if we're dealing with a definition shift here. Like, maybe a sub "back then" meant more of a "bottom" today.

Not saying I agree with it, just saying that " To be a good top, be a good bottom first" makes more sense, if you look at top/bottom play as the art of sensation or pain play.


See I don't think that makes much sense either.

How can you learn to flog, cut, bind, etc from having it done to you? Can you see what is being done? Not always. Are you told the why or how? Probably not.

I found that I learned best when I apprenticed and learned from someone who demonstrated, explained, helped me do it, watched me do and critiqued me, and then further practice on my own.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Gardenista)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 9:35:24 AM   
AFlyInYourWeb


Posts: 284
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dommeyouneed

how many of you think that the best D is one that was a sub


I would avoid the word "best", however, I would say a Domina who had previously subbed might have learned some useful things about the sensations, emotions, and feelings that submissives experience.

How much they learned, and how well they can apply that knowledge to enhance the relationship, will vary according the individual.  Some people are better at reflection and adaptation than others.

I consider it a potential plus in a Domina's resume, but not something I actively look for in a potential Domina.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 10:15:11 AM   
Gardenista


Posts: 146
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

See I don't think that makes much sense either.

How can you learn to flog, cut, bind, etc from having it done to you? Can you see what is being done? Not always. Are you told the why or how? Probably not.

I found that I learned best when I apprenticed and learned from someone who demonstrated, explained, helped me do it, watched me do and critiqued me, and then further practice on my own.


That's a good point, lol. I have absolutely no idea how effective it would be at all, just wondering where it came from. In the context of "sub" being somebody who is just the receiver of physical play, I can kind of see how people could initially come to that conclusion. People come to all kinds of conclusions regardless of how illogical it may seem to others.

and there is at least one person who responded to the OP with agreement.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 10:29:18 AM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dommeyouneed

how many of you think that the best D is one that was a sub


Not I.

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I generally use fast-reply. If directing my post at someone specific I will indicate so.

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(in reply to dommeyouneed)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 11:43:53 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dommeyouneed

how many of you think that the best D is one that was a sub


I think I am a pretty good dominant and there are others who think I am a good dominant.  And I was never a submissive, though I played one for a day.

The idea that the best dominants come up as submissives first is just one school of thought and like anything else in D/s or any other area for that matter, it is probably true for some dominants who came up that way and not for others.  For myself, it is sort of like saying the best submissive is one who has been a femdominant in some point in her life but I don't believe that to be any more true.

(in reply to dommeyouneed)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: just wondering - 12/10/2007 2:57:37 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
See I don't think that makes much sense either.

How can you learn to flog, cut, bind, etc from having it done to you? Can you see what is being done? Not always. Are you told the why or how? Probably not.

You can learn now NOT to flog, cut, and bind from having it done to you. Experiencing bad wraps, the difference between thud and sting, the burn of scalpel when cutting, the tingles of poor circulation are all hard to pick up from words, and much easier to experience. And if you are bottoming specifically to become a better Top, then you SHOULD be hearing "this is what a wrap feels like" and "here's a light shot to the kidneys, you'll see why you want to avoid this" and such.


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Profile   Post #: 38
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