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LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 4:25:21 PM)

An email from a stranger does NOT carry any obligation to respond.  There is no rudeness on their part. 



neoanimaru -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 4:30:10 PM)

I won't say it doesn't. Although I will say if you were even considering sending a polite rejection and that happens it seems to be it is relatively easy to block someone too. In my case, the few responses I have gotten I responded by thanking them for taking their time to actually respond and a comment along the lines of good luck in their search.



KatyLied -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 4:32:20 PM)

I will never be convinced that there is a better method than no response.



sexyred1 -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 4:43:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: neoanimaru

I won't say it doesn't. Although I will say if you were even considering sending a polite rejection and that happens it seems to be it is relatively easy to block someone too. In my case, the few responses I have gotten I responded by thanking them for taking their time to actually respond and a comment along the lines of good luck in their search.


Katy is totally correct; you are being naive. We sub females, who you have accused in one of your many paragraphs of being "assholes" don't have to answer anything that anyone writes to us. Why? It is the INTERNET. I don't owe anyone a thing here or anywhere online.

HOWEVER..in my case...I once upon time, in a land long ago, when I too, was naive about the internet and sites like this, felt compelled to be courteous and reply to everyone who wrote me.

My replies were polite and nice, and if, after perusing the profile of that person, or exchanging an email that indicated to me that I would not be interested, I would say, thank you for the note, I don't think there would be chemistry, or we are seeking different things, etc. and best of luck in your search.

Not only did this approach backfire, but as Katylied said, it produced non stop further emails, but why? what's wrong with me? give me a chance? etc.

And worse than that, men became HOSTILE, claiming I was a bitch, not a true sub, a cunt, stuck up, not real, etc.

So, if you were me, what would you do? Continue to be nice and deal with this bullshit or just ignore when you know it is not going to work?

And, if someone is missing out on a "great Dom/Domme" because of this approach, so be it. It is called fate for a reason. That is also a hazard of online communication, you cannot see everything you need to see, but if what you see and hear is not turning you on you do not need to keep defending yourself to those who will not take no for an answer.



LadyLegs -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 5:26:23 PM)

I have yet to find a nice, polite response to an email that says "use me" .  My oh-so-important time is better spent reading these forums.
 
And while I may be an asshole, I'm also crazy enough not to care if I am. [sm=banana.gif]
 



neoanimaru -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 5:30:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLegs

I have yet to find a nice, polite response to an email that says "use me" .  My oh-so-important time is better spent reading these forums.

And while I may be an asshole, I'm also crazy enough not to care if I am.



Haha. It is nice to see a response such as this. However, given what you describe I would not be the one calling you an asshole.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I will never be convinced that there is a better method than no response.



In the attempt to save yourself from expending a minuet amount of extra time and energy rather than responding to an apparent good messages but potential idiot irregardless of the other person. I would not agree with you more.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

An email from a stranger does NOT carry any obligation to respond.  There is no rudeness on their part. 


The world is neither black nor white just the same as circumstances regarding a message. Especially on a site where politeness and proper decorum are expected of those who send a message. Would it not be cold and hypocritical to not return what is received? I believe NightWindWhisperer had a good section in his post regarding this attitude.

Regardless I vaguely recall this being your canned response to threads such as this one. If I am mistaken I apologize but I'm not going to take the time to sift through your 15000+ posts.


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

Katy is totally correct; you are being naive. We sub females, who you have accused in one of your many paragraphs of being "assholes" don't have to answer anything that anyone writes to us. Why? It is the INTERNET. I don't owe anyone a thing here or anywhere online.


I personally take offence to being called naïve when I have taken the time to explain my views, rhymes, and reasons. Especially since I have actually formed an educated conclusion; that would be the antithesis of naïve wouldn’t it be? If you personally take offense to what I have said even with all of the caveats and distinctions drawn then I cannot help you. If you’re taking offense on the whole because of the principle of it then again I cannot help you unless you actually raise a question. I also direct you to my recommendation for LuckyAlbatross.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

HOWEVER..in my case...I once upon time, in a land long ago, when I too, was naive about the internet and sites like this, felt compelled to be courteous and reply to everyone who wrote me.

My replies were polite and nice, and if, after perusing the profile of that person, or exchanging an email that indicated to me that I would not be interested, I would say, thank you for the note, I don't think there would be chemistry, or we are seeking different things, etc. and best of luck in your search.

Not only did this approach backfire, but as Katylied said, it produced non stop further emails, but why? what's wrong with me? give me a chance? etc.

And worse than that, men became HOSTILE, claiming I was a bitch, not a true sub, a cunt, stuck up, not real, etc.


See my response to Katylied.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

So, if you were me, what would you do? Continue to be nice and deal with this bullshit or just ignore when you know it is not going to work?

And, if someone is missing out on a "great Dom/Domme" because of this approach, so be it. It is called fate for a reason. That is also a hazard of online communication, you cannot see everything you need to see, but if what you see and hear is not turning you on you do not need to keep defending yourself to those who will not take no for an answer.


I have already stated my position and an answer to your question. I am not a hypocrite and again am offended by your implication that I am by the need to even ask what I would do. As to the rest of this section I feel I have answered sufficiently previously. Also, I will note that the general mood of your post is that it was the community at large that was out to get you. If in fact it is and you’ve never received a nice response I apologize on behalf on those who I have and who I believe everyone here would denounce as assholes.

Should anyone have a question of what I’ve said that I have not already answered I’ll be happy to answer. Otherwise these responses are tiring my fingers and I do not wish this thread to become anymore ugly than it already is.



sexyred1 -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 5:41:35 PM)

neoanimaru,

I don't think that I, nor anyone else on the thread is offended by what you had to say; I just realized this is only your 8th post.

Let me explain: this topic gets asked about all the time; there is not a week that goes by that someone does not rant about why they get no replies. It is usually prefaced by: "why are subs so rude?" something like that.

So, some of us more jaded types here are quick to reply and I realize that you were simply throwing your thoughts out there as you have a perfect right to, just as anyone is allowed to reply with whatever they want to.

Oh, I am wise enough to know that that no one is "out to get me", LOL, this is just an online forum and you have no reason to apologize on behalf of anyone unless you did something wrong.

BTW, this thread is not exactly "ugly". Believe me, you will know when a thread becomes so.

Happy posting!



laurell3 -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 5:56:27 PM)

I think what you are missing here neo is this statement by LA:  An email from a stranger does NOT carry any obligation to respond.  There is no rudeness on their part....is actually what the norm is.  You are projecting your thoughts on rudeness to imply there is some when in fact the opposite is true.  Your opinion does not change the fact that many feel this way.  I don't think people are taking offense, you just don't actually seem to be listening to what they are saying and think you can change their opinions on it.  Trust me, you cannot and this is only the most recent in a very long line of threads on this same subject.



laurell3 -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 5:57:31 PM)

boo double posted again....grrrr



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 6:20:19 PM)

You ARE getting a response. No response is a response...and is often some people's passive aggressive way of saying no. A lot of people don't like to reject whomever, even if they feel they have valid reasons.

Master Fire



neoanimaru -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 6:25:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

neoanimaru,

I don't think that I, nor anyone else on the thread is offended by what you had to say; I just realized this is only your 8th post.

Let me explain: this topic gets asked about all the time; there is not a week that goes by that someone does not rant about why they get no replies. It is usually prefaced by: "why are subs so rude?" something like that.

So, some of us more jaded types here are quick to reply and I realize that you were simply throwing your thoughts out there as you have a perfect right to, just as anyone is allowed to reply with whatever they want to.

Oh, I am wise enough to know that that no one is "out to get me", LOL, this is just an online forum and you have no reason to apologize on behalf of anyone unless you did something wrong.

BTW, this thread is not exactly "ugly". Believe me, you will know when a thread becomes so.

Happy posting!


Yes, I am aware that this does get brought up often and have sifted through threads of it. I made a point to mention there are a number of those that may (or may not) be delusional to think it is not partially or wholly their fault. It bothered me that there were many justifications for being jaded but apparently not much done about it. I was actually going to make a thread, not so much about this subject but what very specifically causes being jaded and if there is any consideration after it. I am also curious as to specifics regarding Dom/mes to reply in such a fashion. It seems like it poisons the water hole so to speak.

And thank you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

I think what you are missing here neo is this statement by LA:  An email from a stranger does NOT carry any obligation to respond.  There is no rudeness on their part....is actually what the norm is.  You are projecting your thoughts on rudeness to imply there is some when in fact the opposite is true.  Your opinion does not change the fact that many feel this way.  I don't think people are taking offense, you just don't actually seem to be listening to what they are saying and think you can change their opinions on it.  Trust me, you cannot and this is only the most recent in a very long line of threads on this same subject.



You have missed my point entirely. I apologize for wasting your time and for trying when it appears you to not desire it. Also, my objective was to give food for thought, not change opinions. That is something a person can only do for themselves.

I am also not trying to say a persons actions here have social ramifications. Just moral ones and while morality differs from person to person I was apparently under the false notion that most people in some what shape or form subscribe to “what goes around comes around” even in the basic “if I piss this person off will it affect my chances at getting something else”.



chellekitty -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 6:33:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

It's my personal experience, that to politely reject someone with "no, thank you, I'm not interested" sometimes produces the following behaviors:  "please reconsider"  "what's your im?"  "let's talk, you can get to know me"  "come on, give me a chance".   Along with chat requests when I'm on-line.  Easier not to start that ball rolling.


wow...those are some nice responses to your rejection....i won't repeat the responses i've gotten when i've rejected people and i don't think twice to call someone an "ignorant fuck" in the middle of a crowded mall.....



LadySeraphina -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 6:36:08 PM)

I do send polite no thank you's to well thought emails where the sender simply doesn't suit me. However, I don't bother if I get a 'hey, ur hott'. Why should I? If you put in some time to approach me, I'll give you a moment or two of my time. On the other hand, I have also faced male subs who get quite nasty when turned down. Frankly, Dom(me)s tend to be even more aggressive to femsubs, so I don't blame 'em for saving their proverbial breath.

As is often pointed out, remember that your messages may also be filtered into the Domme's bulk mail folder, and you're not being ignored, she simply doesn't know you exist.

-Lady Seraphina

Edited to add: This was in response to neo, not chelle.



KindLadyGrey -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 6:53:17 PM)

Here is some good advice for life in general: Always assume ignorance instead of malice.

It always baffles me how quick some people are to surrender to road rage. If someone cuts me off, my first thought it "Oh, they probably didn't see me." Most people assume the person is being an asshole.

If someone doesn't reply to me, I just think "Maybe they have other things on their mind" or "Maybe they are very busy with real life stuff and don't have time to respond to every single message." Most people assume a non-response is some kind of tacit rejection, and they take that rejection personally.

There are a million reasons you could not receive a reply, and only a few of them are "the person is an impolite jerk."

That said, in the event that you find a person you really like and whose profile indicates you would be compatible, and you send a polite query and get no response, don't be afraid to send another note a mont h or so later. I'm one of those who simply gets too many messages to keep up with, so most of them don't get replies, especially really short ones from people who live geographically distant, even if they are polite and well written. Sometimes, however, if the same person messages me again later in the same polite fashion, I'll respond just because I happen to have more time or am not as busy. I probably won't even remember reading your previous message. It all depends on how busy I am at the time I get it, which you have no control over, and which you also shouldn't take personally.

That said, keep in mind that any mildly attractive female, Domme or sub, is going to be getting A LOT of messages on sites like this. Yours is just another one in the stack, so even if you are nice and polite, if you don't stand out in some way (a good way) you are more likely to be ignored just by virtue of statistics.

I often tell my single male friends that dating is about statistics. Almost every self-help book on dating echoes this advice, but almost no one ever takes it. 20% is actually a pretty good response rate. I usually tell people to expect 10% online. The bottom line is that you have to send out a lot of inquiries to get a positive response. It's not because people are rude, it's just because obligations to random strangers on the internet are pretty limited. I tend to be in LuckyAlbatross's camp; I don't think I have any obligation to random people on the internet except not to be abusive to them.



neoanimaru -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 7:41:04 PM)

It is nice to read that is how you handle things. However, I have already addressed most of the rest of your response in previous replies. As to bulk filters I am well aware of them. It is why I take the time to check my sent mail folder and see if what little I do send out is read before I start to wonder and ultimately do nothing about as in most cases I can only conclude most are doing as described in these threads. Avoiding harsh responses.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 9:19:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: neoanimaru
The world is neither black nor white just the same as circumstances regarding a message. Especially on a site where politeness and proper decorum are expected of those who send a message. Would it not be cold and hypocritical to not return what is received? I believe NightWindWhisperer had a good section in his post regarding this attitude.

So a person is being rude if they don't answer questions on a survey by askers at a mall?  If they don't call a number on a flier left on their window?  If they don't want to pick up the phone from a telemarketer?

And I've posted this before, Miss Manners would say it's actually completely the best thing for ladies NOT to respond:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/03/AR2006010301537.html
To Some Things, Don't Even Say No

quote:


Regardless I vaguely recall this being your canned response to threads such as this one. If I am mistaken I apologize but I'm not going to take the time to sift through your 15000+ posts.

It's canned because what was true then remains true now.  It's petulant entitled whining to suggest a lack of response to an email from a stranger is in any way inappropriate.



peppermint -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 10:28:53 PM)

quote:

Especially on a site where politeness and proper decorum are expected of those who send a message.


Huh??  Is that written in the TOS for this site or are you talking about another site.??  You mean i could report the last mail i got that asked if my Master shared me with others?  You mean CM has a rule against what he asked?  Wow...i never knew i was supposed to expect proper decorum.  I just thought the site was full of whankers and it was my job to sort out the whankers and put them on ignore as i delete their messages. 



Sephrim -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 10:37:34 PM)

all i know is i get tired of talking to thousands of people trying to find some one that is willing to think and make fun conversation yes i may be a Dom but that does not mean i have to be all controling about every fact of ones life some thought and spunkyness is quite fun and makes it more enjoyable to me at least. as to this post Lol i do think that far to many people ignore emails when a person might just wish to get to know you as i see it if more people took time to get to know the person on the other end they would be amazed at what they find



neoanimaru -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 10:44:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

So a person is being rude if they don't answer questions on a survey by askers at a mall?  If they don't call a number on a flier left on their window?  If they don't want to pick up the phone from a telemarketer?

And I've posted this before, Miss Manners would say it's actually completely the best thing for ladies NOT to respond:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/03/AR2006010301537.html
To Some Things, Don't Even Say No



If you would have actually read the posts you would both understand where I was coming from and that in this case the article you quoted agrees with me.

I’ll even spell it out for you since you appear to be so thick headed and closed minded you won’t get it any other way.

It seems the part you are referencing to is as follows.

quote:



In any case, a lady does not respond to an indecent proposal. Doing so only suggests that she is willing to negotiate.


Now let us look at the definition of indecent since it seems you are either confused by it or misinterpret it.

quote:


adj.
1. Offensive to good taste; unseemly.
2. Offensive to public moral values; immodest. See synonyms : improper.



Now let me reiterate (that means to say or state again) what I have said in a way that will leave you with no doubt you are not only wrong but misconstruing what is said and using crappy examples like telemarketing to justify your misguided and skewed thought process with regards to what I have said.

If a person takes the time to read another persons profile and they match then they send a well worded introduction message AND the recipient not only reads but views the senders profile and sees that they are what they appear to be THEN even if the recipient does not wish to pursue anything it is only polite to respond with a “not interested”.

If you’ll notice where I said “they match” shows that it cannot be indecent as whatever it would be is in good taste to both. It can also be agreed a well worded introduction is neither obnoxious nor overbearing and causes no concern to the recipient. Is that stated plainly enough for you?

Also, please don’t feign ignorance as to why the situation I describe is so much different than telemarketers or surveys at the mall. Especially since a matching profile means they’re both looking for the same thing. I’m sure that would be the same as a person wanting to talk to telemarketers or fill out surveys.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


It's canned because what was true then remains true now.  It's petulant entitled whining to suggest a lack of response to an email from a stranger is in any way inappropriate.


Sorry, however, it’s not. As many subs/slaves admit “I tried to be nice/proper/polite but it always backfired so I don’t even bother anymore.” That clearly shows a desire to do what is perceived as right (in this case replying politely) that is curbed by constant harassment and degradation afterwards. So if a message causes no concern, is neither obnoxious nor overbearing nor inappropriate how can it be wrong to respond in kind when it was something you knew to be right from the beginning?

Perhaps it can only be expected for those to act like a Pavlov dog and shy away from hands when in the past they have only been used to strike instead of recognizing one that means to pet.

It’s also very hard to take someone seriously especially when they’re insulting and one who associates closely to a symbol of burden or synonymously a parasite.

I hadn’t planned on writing something like this, but you just happened to rub me the wrong way. The funny thing is I’m fairly certain you’ll disagree with me out of principle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: peppermint

Huh??  Is that written in the TOS for this site or are you talking about another site.??  You mean i could report the last mail i got that asked if my Master shared me with others?  You mean CM has a rule against what he asked?  Wow...i never knew i was supposed to expect proper decorum.  I just thought the site was full of whankers and it was my job to sort out the whankers and put them on ignore as i delete their messages. 



Perhaps you also purposefully misinterpret what I mean and require me to spell out what is tacitly implied and add "if you expect any chance in hell for a reply." You mean to tell me you're not intelligent enough to where you can understand that implication and don't have to have it spoon fed to you? No?

I’m normally much more polite and prefer to agree to disagree. At least when it is reciprocated.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Frustrated (12/9/2007 10:56:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: neoanimaru
Sorry, however, it’s not. As many subs/slaves admit “I tried to be nice/proper/polite but it always backfired so I don’t even bother anymore.” That clearly shows a desire to do what is perceived as right (in this case replying politely) that is curbed by constant harassment and degradation afterwards.

I'm not really sure why you continue to be so deeply ironic wth being so rude and insulting in your responses while championing the cause of politeness, but I'm sure you have some good reason for it.

However, no, all this shows is that a bunch of people are under the FALSE idea that there is some standard of politeness that they should reply, but pragmatism reveals this to be not worth the trouble for them.

The reality is that there never was a need to reply all along, it was never rude to not respond.



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