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RE: Renting - owning! - 12/8/2007 5:03:53 PM   
breatheasone


Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		I am a slave to my Master...I am completely owned. I am also completely free in Him, I can be my self...I can speak up and say what I'm feeling. In fact I'm encouraged to. I actually feel LESS inhibited being owned, have more of a sense of freedom then ever before. This is my experience with being owned.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/8/2007 6:29:37 PM   
Tigrita


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Hi LittleWench.  Thanks for the suggestion.  I admit, I always think of 'pets' as furries, but I see how it can be different in the way that you describe it.  It is kind of similar to how I see myself in a way, but there is enough of a difference that it doesn't quite fit. 

I do have a specific analogy as to how I see my submission and loyalty/devotion that has fit since before day one, and still does.  I've described it as feeling like a bird or a cat who will always come when he calls, always be there waiting for him at his door, out of love, and by choice, with full freedom to choose not to (and the beauty being that I never choose not to).  I don't seek the security and the sense of being owned and cherished as prized property, of being under lock and key, as it seems motivates many slaves (don't mean to pigeonhole every slave or what a slave is, just being general about my perceptions), it is different things that motivate me.  The place my submission comes from, the beauty in it for me, disappears when you put a lock and key on it.  Being an owned pet still takes that away to me.  I like to be an utterly devoted, but free, forest creature

But I've also thought about how and why I feel 'owned' sometimes.  I think conquered really does describe it better.  Completely overpowered, no longer any choice, no question of who has the power, no fight left, no walls remaining.  It is transient, and I put myself in this position by free choice (though there may be some struggle involved for show/fun, or because it is a challenging situation), but I am still the bird who chose to come to him that day, and can leave when it is done and could choose to never come back, still freely submitting, and when I freely come back for more it is all the more so. 

I still consider myself very much his, but it isn't in a sense of property.  I am his companion.  And my heart and mind and orgasms and cunt and ass and body are all his because I have chosen to give and devote myself to him and his pleasure.  I submit them to him to use almost as extensions of himself, knowing he won't harm them, but to use in any way that fulfills and pleases him while taking good care of them.  They are most certainly his, though they are not 'owned' under lock and key. 

I don't know if that makes any sense, it is just how I wrap my head around things.

< Message edited by Tigrita -- 12/8/2007 6:34:35 PM >

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~ Tigrita

There is no right path, only the path you take.

Success is making life happen, versus just letting life happen to you.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/8/2007 6:35:49 PM   
TysGalilah


Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline 		Interesting topic!
 
I am trying to remember if I have every used the term  "owned"  ..I don't think so
Altho, like Tigrita, I also feel possessed when Tyson says "mine" . And I know I have used the phrase " I am Yours, Master" ..
perhaps, for me, possessed emotionally, seems more appropriate than owned as an object or material possession.
 
Rented, wouldn't apply to me..  I do feel this is permanent.
I even come with a remote control ~
sorry ..couldn't resist

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/8/2007 7:13:33 PM   
tricia


Posts: 231
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Having a collar and being owned does not give any guarantees of length of relationship. We could outlast those with collars, who knows.


I agree with this, as well.  My collar did not come with any promises of forever.  Nor did i ask for any. 

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/8/2007 7:38:07 PM   
Driver1961


Posts: 459
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		He dips to all on an interesting thread!

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Ok lol so my analogy isn't perfect. Ha Few really are perfect
quote:

If you lease a horse will it perform for you the same as if you bought it, dedicated yourself to it, invested in its training?

There is dedication and investment in my training. At the end of the day i'm not a horse or a tv, it was just a way to show the comparison between permanent ownership and temporary. Comparison of using RENTING as the 'action' I understand.  Your use of 'renting' to describe your psychological perspective confuses me.
quote:

Will you put as much effort into a leased horse, knowing that at the end of the contract it will be released. 

I believe Sir and i do yes.  Sorry missturbation but your perspective from  'the goods' angle could be very flawed, you as 'the goods' behave as agreed upon the lease agreement, 'the Renter' expects the 'goods' to perform as stated..
quote:

You might fix any health problems that present itself, but would you invest in a prevantitive, holistic health programme for the horse?

Sorry? Not quite sure what you are asking here. I imagine the question is; Does the analogy of RENTING mean that the renter will actually perform long term maintenance functions with the 'goods'? (knowing the foundation of the agreement negates this)
quote:

I think that any one who leases property feels very different about that property than if they bought it.

Yes, quite probably.
I love Sir but am not in love with Him. He does not love me. Would this work if He owned me? Yes i believe it would for us. Why does 'owned' have to mean that the 'owner' has all control and that you are not 'free'?   Your contract or 'lease' can stipulate what control you 'give' to the Dom.  The Dom then 'owns' you within the guidleines of your agreement.   I thinks there is more going on here....   What is "I love Sir but am not in love with Him? and He does not love me"  So He does not care/respect you? What is this 'love' you have for Him?
 
RENTING  I have already stated that I understand the analogy of 'renting' as an action.   You describe in other posts how you are rented to others?????    You are loaned to others as part of your rental agreement or does he sub-lease you (ha sub-lease! I'm hungover.) to others where He charges money or a fee?  If not- He loans you as his property.   eg, we might loan our leased car to a friend for a day for their enjoyment- but our friend borrows our property- not rents it.
 
I am not trying to upset anyone here missturbation but simply seeking clarification to learn more of your views here. 
  I personally cringe at how you using the 'renting' term to describe yourself without stating that percunary interests exchange.
I see no issue with you describing how you maintain being 'free' but am confused with how you take the analogy of the actions of Renting to then describe yourself as being 'Rented' in a mental sense and state you have 'freedom'???? or- it appears you intentionally lower your expectations by viewing yourself as 'rented' yet this empowers you with your freedom?   (I realize most of us have dichotomies)




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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/8/2007 7:58:06 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Miss.... I think there is some value in what you present. 

It is a rare thing that we just Own something of great value or be given something of great value.

Usually we work to own it outright.  For example... we take out a Mortgage to own a house.  We call it ours.... but it is ours with some obligations and restrictions.

It is a rare thing that we just jump into a relationship of a deep meaningful level.  Usually we spend time getting to know each other.  I often consider the term "Falling in Love" to be reflective of this process of a growing bond between individuals.  Nothing really states how quick or long this process is going to take.  We mortage a house for 30 years sometimes longers... sometimes shorter. 

But the question is... When are we paid up so to speak?  When does the Master own the slave.  When does the slave feel owned by the Master.  There is no universal truth for everyone.... but I believe that everyone that wants to travel this road should attempt find this point.... as difficult or easy as it might be.



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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/8/2007 8:45:31 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		While not an often discussed topic, this was a truly excellent thread we had back in 2005 very akin to this exact topic.  Unlike most of my bland thread listing, this is one I HIGHLY recommend reviewing.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_121547/mpage_1/key_contract/tm.htm#121868

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/8/2007 9:11:44 PM   
LittleWench


Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I like to be an utterly devoted, but free, forest creature


A beautiful post.  It sounds to me like you have been tamed. 

(in reply to Tigrita)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/8/2007 10:08:27 PM   
Tigrita


Posts: 484
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		You have no idea. 

Then again, there are times he doesn't want me tame.


_____________________________

~ Tigrita

There is no right path, only the path you take.

Success is making life happen, versus just letting life happen to you.

"Many of the things I enjoy, I enjoy because I don't enjoy them." - Charlotte

(in reply to LittleWench)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/8/2007 11:23:03 PM   
Elorin


Posts: 970
Joined: 8/22/2004
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		As a bottom, submissive, I have been struggling with ownership and D/s and control with M. What it boils down to is that I have an itch that he doesn't seem to know how to scratch.

Rental would work for me if it was active on the part of the dom. Unfortunately the more passive style of domination isn't something I respond well to. Horse rentals require riding, grooming, caring for the horse. I could do that. TV's just get watched. I couldn't do that at all.

~E

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/9/2007 5:42:59 AM   
ELUSIVE1


Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Actually its funny you should mention long term dental care as i have a serious need for this. Sir is working with me on it, a mixture of being terrified of the dentist, severe toothache etc has prompted this.
I think its quite amusing  that the assumption is there (unsaid) that renting in this case means short term. Sir and i have no long term plans but tht doesnt mean we are short term either. We will probably see each other until such time as we can't, don't want to etc. Now that could be next week, next year, our death beds. Having a collar and being owned does not give any guarantees of length of relationship. We could outlast those with collars, who knows.

I completely agree with you on this Misst...life has no guarantees...my first 'Master' and I were on and sometimes off for 4 years...when that ended I had to deal with the  fact that what I thought was forever ownership, wasn't  forever at all ....now I just take one day at a time and enjoy the experience . .


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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/9/2007 12:31:05 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

There is dedication and investment in my training. At the end of the day i'm not a horse or a tv, it was just a way to show the comparison between permanent ownership and temporary.
Comparison of using RENTING as the 'action' I understand.  Your use of 'renting' to describe your psychological perspective confuses me.

I'm not 100% sure what you are asking here. Psycholgically when i am with Sir, on the end of the phone, or on msn i feel owned by Him. The interaction between us mentally i would say is no different to that of an owned slave.

quote:

 I believe Sir and i do yes. 
Sorry missturbation but your perspective from  'the goods' angle could be very flawed, you as 'the goods' behave as agreed upon the lease agreement, 'the Renter' expects the 'goods' to perform as stated..

Not sure what your comment has to do with whether Sir will put as much effort into me as He would if i was an owned slave.
The problem here is that the fact i have used goods as an analogy is really nothing to do with what i was saying. I was trying to explain how i could feel owned when with Sir when i was an unowned slave. I think you missed the point of the thread to be honest.
 
quote:

Yes, quite probably.
I love Sir but am not in love with Him. He does not love me. Would this work if He owned me? Yes i believe it would for us.
Why does 'owned' have to mean that the 'owner' has all control and that you are not 'free'? 
 
Owned for me would mean giving up all control and i am not ready to do that at present.
 
quote:

 Your contract or 'lease' can stipulate what control you 'give' to the Dom.  The Dom then 'owns' you within the guidleines of your agreement.   I thinks there is more going on here.... 
There is? News to me !!
 
quote:

  What is "I love Sir but am not in love with Him? and He does not love me"  So He does not care/respect you? What is this 'love' you have for Him?

The original poster asked if the feeling would be different in a renting kind of relationship. I was stating the feeling in ours and agreeing that yes the feeling between owned and unowned may well be different.
 
quote:

You describe in other posts how you are rented to others?????    You are loaned to others as part of your rental agreement or does he sub-lease you (ha sub-lease! I'm hungover.) to others where He charges money or a fee?  If not- He loans you as his property.
As i have already stated in my interactions with Sir i feel owned at times. Again i think you miss the point.
 
quote:

 I personally cringe at how you using the 'renting' term to describe yourself without stating that percunary interests exchange.

Again you miss the point. It was only relating to how i feel when i am with Sir or interacting with him. In those times i feel owned, when completely away from Him i do not.
 







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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/9/2007 12:35:17 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		But the question is... When are we paid up so to speak?  When does the Master own the slave.  When does the slave feel owned by the Master.  There is no universal truth for everyone.... but I believe that everyone that wants to travel this road should attempt find this point.... as difficult or easy as it might be.

At this moment in time and for the foreseeable future i have no intentions of becoming an owned slave. In the time i am with Sir i am 100% His and feel owned but i love to come home too and be free. Its weird because i get freedom from my moments of being owned and i get freedom from my moments of being unowned. Two completley different kinds of freedom for me, both of which i have no intentions of giving up at present.


_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/9/2007 12:38:22 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

I completely agree with you on this Misst...life has no guarantees...my first 'Master' and I were on and sometimes off for 4 years...when that ended I had to deal with the  fact that what I thought was forever ownership, wasn't  forever at all ....now I just take one day at a time and enjoy the experience . .
One day at a time is how we do it too. We have no illusions that a lot of things do not last forever and that things and people change. I have just taken on a pub where i will be working for 70+ hours a week and Sir lives quite far from me. Things may end up becoming too difficult for us to continue, in which case we will stop seeing each other and go back to being friends.




_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to ELUSIVE1)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/9/2007 12:54:36 PM   
porkchop


Posts: 32
Joined: 2/6/2006
Status: offline 		I have a friend who describes her relationship with the Toppy half as a "long-term lease". 

*typo edit. bah.


< Message edited by porkchop -- 12/9/2007 12:55:14 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/9/2007 3:31:40 PM   
Griswold


Posts: 2739
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

A while ago Sir and i were having a discussion and the topic of ownership came up. Not sure what we were discussing but basically i said that i sometimes feel owned by Sir. i am at present an unowned slave. He replied He was unsure  why as He had never taken any ownership of me. i asked for time to go away and think about this and that i would get back to Him when i had found a way to explain it. i think part of me also needed to explore in my own mind what exactly i meant by this.
It took another conversation we were having about a slaves rights to help me analyse my thoughts. Somehow renting and buying were used as euphenisms and it hit me.
When you rent a tv for example, you expect to get the same service as when you buy one. You expect it to show all four channels (for those without sky lol), you expect the picture to be clear. In short you expect it to function just in the same way as if you had bought it.
So therefore i for want of better words can only describe my feelings of being owned as being similar to the above references to a tv. Sir to a certain degree 'rents' me and therefore owns me for that time span and deserves the same service i would give if i was 'owned' for the time i am with Him.
i call it 'renting - a temporary purchase' and it suits me just fine
Guess i just wanted to throw this out there, see if anyone else had similar feelings, any comments etc.
 
 


I'm looking for a time share.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/9/2007 3:33:54 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure Sir would oblige lol

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/9/2007 10:22:47 PM   
denika


Posts: 619
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline 		I really like your analogy *S*

I like to think I am in a 'rent to own relationship' *g* with my Dom. We have been  getting to know each other since last March, we talked and talked *s* and talked some more in getting to know each other, infact when we first started talking I saw him as a friend and was not looking for anything more but as I got to know him, it changed *s*.  I've also been married for coming up on 18 years now, so I like long term things.  Nothing in life is forever but love does last a long time, and I love them both, they each 'own' a unique peice of my heart. I don't rent out that part of me. Sometimes there are 'return's in the departement,but we don't always keep the receipt. :)


Wolf's denika


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/10/2007 7:46:04 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		FR

i understand your analogy from your standpoint mist but think about this.... how many people treat leased property, such as a car, the same as they would owned.  People take more care with things they own over things they rent or lease.  The "thing" in question must, as you say, perform just as well whether it is leased or owned. 

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Renting - owning! - 12/10/2007 7:58:34 AM   
ghitaPVH


Posts: 1363
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

I am a slave to my Master...I am completely owned. I am also completely free in Him, I can be my self...I can speak up and say what I'm feeling. In fact I'm encouraged to. I actually feel LESS inhibited being owned, have more of a sense of freedom then ever before. This is my experience with being owned.


grins....I feel the same way, breathes

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Profile   Post #: 40
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