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Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 3:37:23 PM

missturbation

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http://www.tiscali.co.uk/news/newswire.php/news/pa/uknews/story3.html&template=/news/feeds/pa_story_template.html

Not sure what i feel about this.

quote:

Critics have warned the move could increase community tensions by placing even greater pressure on accident and emergency departments.

I spent six hours in casualty the other night waiting for my hand stitched. If illegal immigrants only have A&E to go to when ill, what kind of waiting times are we going to be looking at then?

quote:

asylum seekers were barred in 2004 from accessing free secondary health services, such as treatment in hospitals for HIV.

Huh? Does that not just go against human rights?

quote:

The Observer reported that the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) think-tank estimates there are up to 390,000 failed asylum seekers in the UK who are either unwilling or unable to return to their home countries and who would lose access to free healthcare provision if the Government approves the plan.

390,000 extra potential patients for A&E suffering from colds and minor ailments a GP would usually handle?

quote:

"The Government is in danger of normalising what many people will see as a breach of human rights - someone's right to basic health care provision. The Government is saying people who aren't entitled to healthcare should pay for it but asylum seekers are the very people who can't afford to pay for these services."

My compassionate side agrees its a breach of human rights. My harsher side says our health service waiting times wouls improve in all areas if treatment was refused.

Im a little torn on this issue!!

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Post #: 1

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 3:57:06 PM

Politesub53

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Mist i agree with you, its hard to be too critical of people who have health problems, but the NHS do need to does something before it gets overwhelmed. Health tourists is another problem, people knowing they are ill and coming for a "Holiday" also needs looking at, ironically a large percentage of these come from the US.

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 2

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 4:08:17 PM

missturbation

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Yeah, during my six hour wait the other night i read a sign about people 'holidaying'. It basically said anyone on holiday would have to pay for their treatment in A&E.

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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Post #: 3

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 4:13:47 PM

Politesub53

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I didnt know they had started making people pay, they didnt used to, and that may vary from health trust to health trust.

I am sorry you had to wait so long. The average wait in my local A & E is 2 hrs, except friday and saturday nights, which is chaotic

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Post #: 4

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 4:22:44 PM

CuriousLord

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Jebus! I went in on a Saturday night to the ER. The wait was 40 minutes. And I thought that was bad.

I heard the wait time in socialized healthcare countries was worse, but that's pretty bad.

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Post #: 5

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 4:30:57 PM

seeksfemslave

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You dopey liberals give me the screaming ab dabs.
Isnt that a breach of my human rights.

Many health tourists aka needing an abortion used to come from Southern Ireland.

Missturbation...you pay to solve the world's problems if it makes you feel better.
Count me out !

Im so fed up I'm off to Thailand to get a sex change....free of course... as it should be.
Sod the Thailanders....its me 'uman rights.
I just cant stand me big dick ....it upsets me !!!!!

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 12/2/2007 4:37:40 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 4:37:22 PM

Politesub53

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Seeks, big difference between being liberal and being compassionate, Or are you saying you Tories have no compassion ?

PS.... I voted for Maggie.....lol

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Post #: 7

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 4:40:34 PM

seeksfemslave

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Polite: you and those who think like you just cant see when you are being taken for a ride.
Lets all have a communal suck on the tit of the Angel of the North.

Were it not for the profligate welfare policies, not only medical, on offer in the UK we would not have an immigration problem and then emergency medical treatment could be more easily offered free at the point of use to anyone who needs it.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 12/2/2007 4:47:38 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 4:43:48 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Polite: you and those who think like you just cant see when you are being taken for a ride.
Lets all have a communal suck on the tit of the Angel of the North.

That doesnt tally with all my other posts Seeks. Look up anything i have said about immigration, i am talking about sick people here.

And you know what, if wanting to help the sick is being taken for a ride, then thats fine by me.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 9

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 4:52:12 PM

seeksfemslave

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Polite, Missturbation and those to whom it may concern:
The number of serious problems that exist out there in the big wide world is almost infinite.
The number that exist in the UK is quite large.
Which do you want to solve first.
For Gawds sake wake up.

The upper middle classe of this country dont send their children to schools where 70/80% of the pupils cant speak English.
They dont live on estates where scumbags are running wild.
They rarely use public transport and if they are Liberal do gooders they give me the shits.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 12/2/2007 4:55:25 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 4:55:57 PM

Politesub53

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Seeks read my posts again.... i stated the situation needs looking into. Every post i have made about immigration says much the same.

Answer me this, whats wrong in wanting to help genuinely sick people ? I dont see that as making me either a liberal or a pushover.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 11

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 4:59:52 PM

seeksfemslave

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Whats wrong in wanting to help genuinely sick people?
The hard answer is that on a world wide scale the UK tax payer cant do it , thats whats wrong.

People who do good at others expense give me the shits .
My bowels are working overtime tonight.

Missturbation has gone quiet. Is she having a rethink?

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 12/2/2007 5:05:21 PM >

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Post #: 12

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 5:07:27 PM

Politesub53

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I`m off to A & E for some Aspirin, you are giving me a headache

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Post #: 13

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 5:19:17 PM

missturbation

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quote:

You dopey liberals give me the screaming ab dabs.
Isnt that a breach of my human rights.

You dopey liberals? For one i'm far from dopey and two i'm of no political persuasion at all. I do however have compassion and caring for all human life, illegal, immigrant, citizen etc etc. As for a breach of human rights, well you have a choice whether or not to read and post to this thread. I'm pretty sure the ill don't have a choice and certainly wouldn't choose to be ill.

quote:

Many health tourists aka needing an abortion used to come from Southern Ireland.

Lets not start a debate on the rights and wrongs of abortion, however i cmpletely support those who did / do come here for an abortion because of stupidity in making it illegal over there.

quote:

Missturbation...you pay to solve the world's problems if it makes you feel better.
Count me out !

Hey there mr assumption, i never said i agreed or disagreed with the possibilities being discussed here. I said i was unsure what to think.

I am so not ashamed of who i am and the compassion i carry for others. I would hate to be the cold hearted, arrogant know it all that you come across as in these posts Seeks.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 14

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 7:55:04 PM

stella41b

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This is a European Union thing... I've experienced it in Poland, where you need your insurance card. No insurance card, no treatment, unless you pay. Doesn't matter how ill you are, no card no treatment. There was a big stink in 2004 when the NFZ (the Polish Health Trust) refused to treat an Englishman in a casualty department even though he didn't need insurance because he didn't have a card. He died. The British Consulate got involved and the NFZ against its will issued a directive that all EU citizens must be given free medical treatment in an emergency.

It looks like the NHS is tightening up to follow the same line as other European Union countries.

I don't see much of a conflict. Anyone walking into a hospital or a GP surgery requiring 'primary' health care should get it free of charge. I don't care whether they're British, European Union citizens, or other immigrants, legal or illegal. If they need medical treatment they should have access to it, and cost shouldn't even be mentioned. The NHS is as British as Buckingham Palace, this is our beacon in the world of human rights. I feel it should be protected as such.

If we can pay huge sums to the Royal Family, if we can invest billions of pounds into building state of the art stadia for events like the Olympics in 2012, and if we can cover astronomical costs with our overseas military actions then I'm sure we can find the money for the NHS.

Oh dear.. I'm sorry, I forgot. This is Britain. Our government can only find the money when it goes to promoting corporate interests. But when it comes to the man in the street there's erm.. well... erm.. no money.

This is just another example. Yet again blame the citizen, not the system.

I think this way because most people assume that an immigrant is illegal by choice, that it's their fault. If people think this way I suggest very strongly they pay a visit to Lunar House in Croydon and talk to the immigrants there about their experiences on getting a UK visa. The NRD or UK Immigration Service is the closest thing you can find in Europe to the Gestapo. It is arbitrary, unfair, and these civil 'servants' (I use this in a looser definition than the dictionary) feel themselves to be above the law.

I'm writing here about the 'illegal immigrants' who have been waiting two years for a new one year visa, and about the majority who have to wait over a year for any sort of visa. However if your name is Manuel Ebobo and you are a top Nigerian striker who's just be signed for Chelsea or Whitney Houston giving a concert in London the visa gets sorted within days, even hours.

Try Terminal 3 at London Heathrow airport, where I've spent time as a duty translator for Polish gypsies who were seeking asylum. Watch as they pick out people coming into the country on long haul flights, especially flights coming in from the US. If you don't look right you get picked out, and Lord help you if you haven't got your documents in order or you piss the civil servant off.

In Britain we have brilliant politicians who appear to have the knack of seeing the problem but reforming something completely unconnected with the problem. Pick the party, look back over 25 years and you'll see it, time and time again.

Our immigration policies have been needing urgent reform for over 20 years.

I find it funny how a government can reform the welfare benefits system and tighten it up, how they can tighten up other services but when it comes to immigration they're clueless and incompetent.

Or is it really incompetence?

< Message edited by stella41b -- 12/2/2007 8:18:33 PM >

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RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/2/2007 9:45:21 PM

defiantbadgirl

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Good. Maybe some of the illegals will go back to their own countries and the legal citizens will get their jobs back.

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Post #: 16

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/3/2007 1:28:09 AM

LadyEllen

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We should treat them.

On the proviso that their home country picks up the bill. We can just deduct it from their latest loan / grant / aid. No new Rolls Royces in five different colours for El Presidente this year; shame.

Of course, that way we'll also find out the home country of those who arrive here and then burn their papers so we cant deport them.

Or, we could get them to work - since Brits dont seem to want to work and we need umpteen immigrants to take up the slack so we're told and there's loads of jobs available, we could grant them temporary leave to remain and work and contribute rather than be a drain.

But ultimately - if theyre here and theyre ill, its in our interests to treat them. Theyre living amongst us, potentially spreading diseases, and should they get the right to remain then we want them fit and ready to work.

E

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RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/3/2007 2:16:06 AM

seeksfemslave

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quote:

Stella
Our immigration policies have been needing urgent reform for over 20 years.

True, they need tightening up. Dont forget the Liberals thought the last two immigration acts had solved the problem. What problem? We havent got one according to the Liberals.

quote:

Stella
Oh dear.. I'm sorry, I forgot. This is Britain. Our government can only find the money when it goes to promoting corporate interests. But when it comes to the man in the street there's erm.. well... erm.. no money

This quote came straight from page 1 of the NG guidebook to modern British social expenditure.published by the Manchester branch of supporters of Citizen Smith of the great British constituency of Peckham Rye.
It, the quote, is inaccurate.

quote:

Missturbation
I would hate to be the cold hearted, arrogant know it all that you come across as in these posts Seeks.

Missturbation: A bleeding heart will generally KILL the body in which it lives.
A cold heart gives some chance of survival
As for "know it it all". I would have thought that applies to Liberals who steadfastly hold to policies that can be seen to be not working but are failing in such a way that they are not affected.
Thus they are the real "know it alls "
My civics professor told me muti cuturalism is a high universal ideal.....therefore it must be implemented. When problems arise lets wait 10 years when surely they will disappear. otherwise multiculturalism is not a high universal ideal and my civics prof. says it is.

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 18

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/3/2007 2:22:21 AM

LadyEllen

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Can we please capitalise Liberals only when it refers to the Liberal party? (ie the one with a few council seats in Liverpool and here in sunny N Worcs - not to be confused with the Liberal Democrats).

Fact is, Labour and Conservative governments have overseen the mess we've got into. The Liberals never got a look in, and the Liberal Democrats arent likely to either, when in many seats under our wondrous electoral system, a turd would be elected if it wore the right colour rosette.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Post #: 19

RE: Illegal immigrants face NHS block - 12/3/2007 2:27:33 AM

seeksfemslave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

by stoneface me in the context of unfair expenditure imposed on the Brit taxpayer.

Many health tourists aka needing an abortion used to come from Southern Ireland.

Lets not start a debate on the rights and wrongs of abortion, however i completely support those who did / do come here for an abortion because of stupidity in making it illegal over there.

Talk about missing the point. Well did you evah lol

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 20

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