Ending famine by ignoring the experts

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Level -> Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 5:09:24 AM)
LILONGWE, Malawi — Malawi hovered for years at the brink of famine. After a disastrous corn harvest in 2005, almost five million of its 13 million people needed emergency food aid. But this year, a nation that has perennially extended a begging bowl to the world is instead feeding its hungry neighbors. It is selling more corn to the World Food Program of the United Nations than any other country in southern Africa and is exporting hundreds of thousands of tons of corn to Zimbabwe. In Malawi itself, the prevalence of acute child hunger has fallen sharply. In October, the United Nations Children’s Fund sent three tons of powdered milk, stockpiled here to treat severely malnourished children, to Uganda instead. “We will not be able to use it!” Juan Ortiz-Iruri, Unicef’s deputy representative in Malawi, said jubilantly. Farmers explain Malawi’s extraordinary turnaround — one with broad implications for hunger-fighting methods across Africa — with one word: fertilizer. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/world/africa/02malawi.html?em&ex=1196744400&en=8dc6209db5ec0efe&ei=5087%0A

Lordandmaster -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 6:02:10 AM)
That's a good article, but "ignoring the experts" is misleading. It should have said "ignoring THE RIGHT-WING FREE-MARKET-WORSHIPING SMALL-GOVERNMENT experts." Jeffrey Sachs is an expert and he supported the fertilizer-subsidy program from the beginning.

Sanity -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 7:34:57 AM)
It doesn't take a left-wing rocket scientist to know that you have to add a little fertilizer to your garden. This is just a case of growing a garden by committee... if right-wingers took away fertilizer subsidies they did make a grave mistake, but that doesn't mean that free markets don't work.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 12:51:13 PM)
Laughing...OK, yeah, free-market ideology works, except for a few disastrous exceptions...but it still works, yup, it must work!

Sanity -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 12:58:50 PM)
Communism / Socialism has a better track record? Not. quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Laughing...OK, yeah, free-market ideology works, except for a few disastrous exceptions...but it still works, yup, it must work!

dcnovice -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 1:06:01 PM)
It's interesting that this was sparked by the election of a new president. Economist Amartya Sen has argued that a key factor in preventing famine is having leaders who are determined to feed their people.

popeye1250 -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 1:10:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice It's interesting that this was sparked by the election of a new president. Economist Amartya Sen has argued that a key factor in preventing famine is having leaders who are determined to feed their people. Good because as a U.S. Taxpayer I'm getting real tired of it! Africa needs to start solving it's own problems. Forty years of stolen "foreign aid" from the West is enough.

Sanity -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 1:19:01 PM)
Amen to that, DC. It's like, "DUH... mebbe we shood try sum ferdalizer..." It's not Left vs. Right, it's simple, basic farming. quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice It's interesting that this was sparked by the election of a new president. Economist Amartya Sen has argued that a key factor in preventing famine is having leaders who are determined to feed their people.

Owner59 -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 2:02:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Communism / Socialism has a better track record? Not. quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Laughing...OK, yeah, free-market ideology works, except for a few disastrous exceptions...but it still works, yup, it must work! Does unfettered ,un-regulated,predatory capitalism(Enron,Iraq,Halliburton,Blackwater,etc.,etc.,etc.)have a good record? Nope. There are more than a few models.

Owner59 -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 2:12:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level LILONGWE, Malawi — Malawi hovered for years at the brink of famine. After a disastrous corn harvest in 2005, almost five million of its 13 million people needed emergency food aid. But this year, a nation that has perennially extended a begging bowl to the world is instead feeding its hungry neighbors. It is selling more corn to the World Food Program of the United Nations than any other country in southern Africa and is exporting hundreds of thousands of tons of corn to Zimbabwe. In Malawi itself, the prevalence of acute child hunger has fallen sharply. In October, the United Nations Children’s Fund sent three tons of powdered milk, stockpiled here to treat severely malnourished children, to Uganda instead. “We will not be able to use it!” Juan Ortiz-Iruri, Unicef’s deputy representative in Malawi, said jubilantly. Farmers explain Malawi’s extraordinary turnaround — one with broad implications for hunger-fighting methods across Africa — with one word: fertilizer. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/world/africa/02malawi.html?em&ex=1196744400&en=8dc6209db5ec0efe&ei=5087%0A I`m a little put off,by the pseudo experts trying to describe famine in Africa in simple,black and white,communism/capitalism type ways. The causes of famine are numbered in the dozens.Anything from civil war and war-lording,to drought and pests,to genocide and exploitation by multi-nationals. It`s not always as simple as fertilizer. Most people haven`t a clue about hunger,Africa or the 3rd world.

Sanity -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 2:12:47 PM)
Naming a few companies that you believe are posessed by demons or whatever doesn't make Capitalism itself Satanic or anything There are bad people anywhere, in any system...

Sanity -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 2:17:14 PM)
I'm sure that there's a fertilizer joke in there somewhere but damnit, I've had enough bright red and gold in my inbox for today so I'm just gonna have to let that shit slide this time. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 I`m a little put off,by the pseudo experts trying to describe famine in Africa in simple,black and white,communism/capitalism type ways. The causes of famine are numbered in the dozens.Anything from civil war and war-lording,to drought and pests,to genocide and exploitation by multi-nationals. It`s not always as simple as fertilizer. Most people haven`t a clue about hunger,Africa or the 3rd world.

Owner59 -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 3:04:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I'm sure that there's a fertilizer joke in there somewhere but damnit, I've had enough bright red and gold in my inbox for today so I'm just gonna have to let that shit slide this time. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 I`m a little put off,by the pseudo experts trying to describe famine in Africa in simple,black and white,communism/capitalism type ways. The causes of famine are numbered in the dozens.Anything from civil war and war-lording,to drought and pests,to genocide and exploitation by multi-nationals. It`s not always as simple as fertilizer. Most people haven`t a clue about hunger,Africa or the 3rd world. bright red and gold in my inbox <nods> My next Mod note, will be me getting tossed from the boards.

Owner59 -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 3:08:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Naming a few companies that you believe are posessed by demons or whatever doesn't make Capitalism itself Satanic or anything There are bad people anywhere, in any system... Seriously,when have multi-nationals ~not~ exploited Africa.I`m sure there are a few examples,but only a few in 300 years of Euro-Afro contact. The history has been a shameful one.

popeye1250 -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 4:13:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Naming a few companies that you believe are posessed by demons or whatever doesn't make Capitalism itself Satanic or anything There are bad people anywhere, in any system... Seriously,when have multi-nationals ~not~ exploited Africa.I`m sure there are a few examples,but only a few in 300 years of Euro-Afro contact. The history has been a shameful one. Owner, those were mostly European companies, "colonies" and all that in the 1500's to 1900's. The U.S. gets things from Africa including Oil from Nigeria but we pay (very dearly I might add.) for them.

Sanity -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 4:42:29 PM)
I'm trying to be good, but I seem to be fighting a nasty streak in my very nature in order to do so. She has a point though, she's right. There is no need for me to be so nasty on these boards, I am a guest here. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 bright red and gold in my inbox <nods> My next Mod note, will be me getting tossed from the boards.

FangsNfeet -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 7:42:53 PM)
President Eisenhower once gave a speech about how a redirection of funds and labor could help the world economy and end famine. "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." http://www.famousquotes.me.uk/speeches/Eisenhower/1.htm

FullfigRIMaam -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/2/2007 9:03:09 PM)
quote: Owner, those were mostly European companies, "colonies" and all that in the 1500's to 1900's. The U.S. gets things from Africa including Oil from Nigeria but we pay (very dearly I might add.) for them. You can't possibly be so ignorant as to not be able to connect the dots. I know willfull ignorance suits you perfectly well. Never mind me, I'm just sayin'. M

FullfigRIMaam -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/3/2007 12:03:19 AM)
popeye1250, I'd recommend reading ""Confessions of an Economic Hit Man (BK Currents) (Hardcover) by John Perkins "", but I doubt you will, as than you'll have little to get you off anymore, since you're always needing the "third world sucks" viagra. M

SimplyMichael -> RE: Ending famine by ignoring the experts (12/3/2007 12:51:00 AM)
I love people who talk about "capitalism" as if the biggest welfare queens in this country weren't republican run corporations. Try running for president and announcing in Iowa that you are against ethanol subsidies, or trying to win Florida and denouncing sugar subsidies, or milk subsidizes in dairy states! Africa is kept poor and starving BECAUSE of the "aid" we "give" away. We subsidize grain and dairy production here and then "give" the excess for free as "aid" to africa. Thus the "$10 million" that popeye whines about is excess food production we created because of subsidies/welfare here and thus was already paid for. Then we dump it in Africa. Well, no matter how hard you try and be a capitalist african farmer when american welfare queens dump their excess grain for free into your market, your fucked. The world bank is no more than a criminal racked designed to loot third world countries but that is another story.

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