Democratic Party Punishes Michigan

Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (Full Version)

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HaveRopeWillBind -> Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 4:02:10 PM)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22054151/ As a voter in Michigan (MI) I feel personally offended by this, it's as though the Democratic National Committee (DNC) has told all the voters of MI that their opinions and votes just don't count. The guy in the street has little control over what the state legislature chooses to do, but with almost every other state moving up their primary dates I find it offensive that the only state punished by the DNC is MI. My reaction was to immediately fire off an e-mail to the DNC and let them know I am feeling rejected by them in the primaries and asking how, after that, they expect my vote in the general election. Other MI residents should do the same, as well as residents of other states who could suffer the same and feel they have a right to be counted. How do others on the board feel about this?

cyberdude611 -> RE: Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 4:06:38 PM)
Florida is also stripped of its delegates by the DNC and has filed a lawsuit.

juliaoceania -> RE: Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 4:36:50 PM)
My thoughts are mixed. On one hand I think every state should have a right to move their primaries around to suit themselves, on the other hand the way some states are talking (New Hampshire for example), it does not matter what it is that they do to keep their primary "first", they will do it. I live in California, the state with the most delegates, and it does irk me that my state does not get a primary until after half the people running drop out of the race. Not to mention we also are one of the last time zones that has their votes counted on election night in a presidential year... On the other hand, moving all these primaries around to be "first" is getting out of hand.. perhaps we should have our primaries on the same day?

popeye1250 -> RE: Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 4:47:55 PM)
And then there's the loss of all those jobs in Michigan due to NAFTA and the "global economy" and outsourcing. I wonder if Hillary Clinton is going to try and tell us how successful Bill's "Nafta" is? Or, that all the empty abandoned houses in Michigan are just a mirage.

cyberdude611 -> RE: Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 5:05:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania My thoughts are mixed. On one hand I think every state should have a right to move their primaries around to suit themselves, on the other hand the way some states are talking (New Hampshire for example), it does not matter what it is that they do to keep their primary "first", they will do it. I live in California, the state with the most delegates, and it does irk me that my state does not get a primary until after half the people running drop out of the race. Not to mention we also are one of the last time zones that has their votes counted on election night in a presidential year... On the other hand, moving all these primaries around to be "first" is getting out of hand.. perhaps we should have our primaries on the same day? Since California votes for the Democrat in every election anyway...no one takes that state seriously. Democrats feel they dont have to defend it. Republicans feel there is no way they can win because of cities like San Francisco. So California doesnt play much of a role in presidential politics. Michigan, Ohio, Virginia, Missouri, Pennsylvania, and Florida however are swing states. So candidates will spend time in those states.

HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 5:12:18 PM)
It was California under the wishes of the Governator that began all this primary movement to be more influential. Yet the DNC hasn't chosen to take any action there. New Hampshire has a clause in their state constitution that requires them to be first so they can be forgiven for moving theirs up. After NH I think primaries should be run in the order of state entry into the union. That would put Delaware next in line after NH, etc. That seems to be the most logical method to to order the primary dates to me.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 5:22:12 PM)
The Republicans are moving to strip states of half their delegates if they move their primary before Feb. 5th. So it's not just the Democrats. I understand the anger from people in these states. But, political parties are allowed to set rules regarding primaries.

pahunkboy -> RE: Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 5:24:45 PM)
dump the electoral college.

HaveRopeWillBind -> RE: Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 5:27:58 PM)
Political parties do not make laws, state legislatures do. In each case where a primary has been moved up it has been an act of the legislative body of that state. Are you suggesting the political parties should have the legal power to over-rule state legislatures?

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 5:32:23 PM)
No, I'm not suggesting that. States can move their primaries to any date they want. The national conventions of those parties don't have to accept the votes though. The Republican and Democratic parties are not government entities. They can pick their candidates anyway they choose. They didn't used to have primaries; they decided it in the infamous smoke filled rooms.

MasterDoc1 -> RE: Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 5:42:49 PM)
As was noted HaveRope, Florida was also penalized in the same manner by the DNC. The good news is that in Michigan, since they have an open primary, you STILL have the opportunity to cast a meaningful vote on primary day. You can cast a powerful vote against the neocons who have led us into never-ending war and assaulted our civil liberties by voting in the Republican primary for Ron Paul. Your vote for him would count AND send a powerful message.

cyberdude611 -> RE: Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 5:50:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy dump the electoral college. This has nothing to do with the electoral college. The primary process is directed by the political parties.

MasterDragas -> RE: Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 5:53:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy dump the electoral college. I agree with you. We don't need no middlemen to pick the president. Every vote should count like with electing Congressman and State Governors. The President is the only elected position in which there is a middle man organization. Just because a state has a majority of voters vote for one party over the other doesn't mean that that one party should have total control over all the votes. Hell with so many states in the last presidential election only gaining majority by a single percent or fraction of a percent, its pretty much stealing the votes of those that voted for someone else. Although this has nothing to do with the primaries what so ever. You should bring it up in another thread.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Democratic Party Punishes Michigan (12/1/2007 8:26:31 PM)
Do people just not understand the difference between a primary and the general election? This is another good reason to revamp the entire process. This party system is seen by the common person as more of a game played between two teams. That causes division, and the cheerleader attitude of winning at any cost. Bow out of your parties and become independent voters, then you can examine the candidate and the issues, and not be convinced to just be a team player. Orion

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