RE: The Loving Submissive

RE: The Loving Submissive (Full Version)

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Kana -> RE: The Loving Submissive (11/30/2007 8:52:35 PM)
Personal opinion. Submission is not a gift. Not even a little bit. A gift is by definition something freely given with no strings attached or the expectation of anything in return. When I accept someones submission, I am certainly not getting anything with nothing attached to it. The receipt of someones submission is the acceptance of a huge amount of responsibility. That person is trusting me, I need to be capable of living up to that trust. I have a responsibilty to be honest to her, to treat her in a certain fashion, to own her, to dominate her. Free, its the farthest thing from free. To think otherwise is childish and self indulgent. If you think otherwise you are playing fast and free with peoples lives and emotions, which is reckless at best, dangerous at the worst. There is always reciprocity in any relationship, its the physics of the heart. For every action there is an equal or opposite reaction.

DesFIP -> RE: The Loving Submissive (11/30/2007 8:52:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64 Think of it this way. Everyday life with your partner. You cook clean, goto work, Pay Bills do as your asked never asking for anything. day after day afterday. let say you did not get to have sex any more. or did not get to have to do anything fun but just what the other person wanted. how would you feel Then it's your own fault to agree to never asking for anything, for not discussing your sexual needs. You get the relationship you deserve. We talked about libido and the importance of sex in a relationship because it was essential to us that we were compatible in this arena. I'm supposed to ask for what I need, sometimes I'm supposed to make a fuss to ensure I get it. Those are rules in my relationship that are there to ensure that my needs be met, that I don't run dry giving to him. He structured this relationship to have the best chance of success. And there wouldn't be much chance of success if I was constantly unhappy. His presence in my life is a gift. My presence in his life is a gift. The fact that we found each other in an area of 20 million people is a miracle. We don't take these things lightly. If your partner does, then it's your fault for picking such a partner. Time to make changes in your screening process.

cainssub -> RE: The Loving Submissive (11/30/2007 8:56:40 PM)
im finding out the hard way that i gave Master a gift that He seems to see as such. a gift and not a responsibility, now i am torn and feeling lost, thank you for so eloquently putting what submission is, not a gift but a responsibility to be taken with great care, the payoff is tremendous if You see the worth of what you're being given..... well and yes it takes work on both sides, i read some of the posts and true enough, it is mutual........

eyesopened -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/1/2007 2:27:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LATEXBABY64 If it could be said the dynamics of relationships come from points of view and concepts tried and failed. The one thing that remains constant is how people build a D's relationship. I Have read many threads hear about how people say submission is not a gift. I will tell you from this point of view you are totally wrong. Any one person who loves you unconditionally with loyalty and admiration and honor is a gift. In this day and age the walls of discontent and anger and value seem to be a all time high. We become like used automobiles for the trading of new ones. So My question is to you How much do you respect what you have with a sub or slave. or is it just two ships passing in the night Disclaimer ( All things posted have nothing do with the author or any said individual ) Submission is no more about unconditional love than it is about sex. Submission is the yielding to the authority of another. Period. i have submitted happily without any love whatsoever. It was still submission. i submit to my boss, law enforcement and sadly to the laws of gravity. i am submissive. i am female. Is my femininity a gift?? nope! It is what i am. Does my being female have value? Well, since my Master is heterosexual, it does have value as does my submission. Actually i as the person i am, have value to Him as He has value to me. That i'm female and submissive is what brought us together but hardly a gift as i was female and submissive even before i met Him.

LadyPact -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/1/2007 2:43:50 AM)
I don't think it's so terribly wrong to think of this in the "gift" term. Perhaps it's just a case of the way it's looked at. The whole "submission is a gift" thing is just a matter of perspective. It's probably more accurate to say My submissive is a gift. Submission is part of who he is in My life, so that's part of it. To Me, that makes it easy to translate the two. It isn't much different than saying other people who are positive in My life are also a gift, such as My husband, My Grand UM, or other members of My family. It doesn't mean to Me that it's a one way street. It means that, for some reason out there, I'm fortunate enough to have these people in My life.

TysGalilah -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/1/2007 4:00:49 AM)
My relationship with Tyson is certainly worthy of being called a gift in my life. I cherish and love him as a man, as my dearest friend, my confidant and my Dominant. He is my dominant because of his role in the dynamic of the relationship, but he is my Master because of all the things about him that inspire me to cherish and love him. The gift may not be his dominance or my submission.. and to those who say " that is doing what is natural and fulfilling a need to serve and dominate " > I agree with the basic premise of that statement BUT He didn't have to choose ME or my submission, and I didn't have to choose HIM. Heck it's a small miracle we found each other ! The fact that we are who we are to one another, to me, is a blessing and valuable ( and is valued) beyond any kind of monetary conotation, as it is priceless and will never be taken for granted by me....ie a gift. I know what it is like to be in a 20+ yr relationship with someone who could "say" all the right things....But didn't have a clue how to feel them himself, nor inspire anyone else to feel those words. What I gave him, that came natural to me, was taken for granted, misunderstood and misused. So I recognize how very special it is to find what I have found in Tyson, and that certainly has been a wonderful gift, in my personal definition. I guess stamp " overly romantic" on my forehead... and call me " CM politically incorrect" , if it makes you feel better to stand on a semantics soapbox.

ExSteelAgain -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/1/2007 4:10:32 AM)
TysGalilah, well said. Sure it is semantics for most of us. We give to each other is how I look at it. We both need it just as bad.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/1/2007 9:16:06 AM)
I have nor will I ever be put in that type of relationship Keep in MInd most things I post are me being the devils advocate. I want us all to really take a look at all sides . this topic has come up a few times which means that we do have some truth to this being about gifted submission some see slaves as gifes ?

Mastaziel -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/1/2007 9:53:32 AM)
Gift of submission? Gift of Dominance? If they're seen as gifts, aren't the both the gift of trust? I'm newly exploring this side of Myself, but it would seem to Me that it's the gift of trust that a Dominant and submissive share. Everything else that develops is built on that, isn't it??

IrishMist -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/1/2007 12:19:22 PM)
~~FR~~ I can not view submission as a gift; not from my own life experiences anyway. I am not a very submissive person, period; even though I was raised in a way that there were certain things a man did, and certain ways a man acted; and vice versa for the women. I don't see these things as 'submissive', just a way of life. Even in my marirage; I would not say that I was 'submissive' to him in the sense that everyone else would use. He and I together were very volatile; it was what attracted me to him in the first place. I fought him every step of the way, in just about everything; not just emotionally and mentally; but physically as well. The only thing that eventually caused me to 'give way to him' was the fact that eventually *he would win in the end, no matter how much of a fight I put up, and no matter how disobedient I was to his wishes.* I could choose to to it the hard way, or I could choose to do it easily. Because of my ummm, more unorthodox desires; I tended to fight more than just give in. I liked the volatile combination that we had with each other. So, I never gave him anything. He took it; one way or the other. If I got hurt in the process, I only had myself to blame [:)], after all, he was the one I chose to be with, knowing full well, what kind of man he was. So, whenever I hear the phrase 'submission is a gift', I have a hard time associating with it. In addition to that, there is the ideal that a gift is given with no expectation of anything in return. So, why would someone give something that is so precious and be happy NOT to get some kind of an exchange. Just makes no sense to me.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/1/2007 1:03:40 PM)
I think you hit on some good points about trust. after all trust is given. So i can see your point in that respect

petpete -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/1/2007 2:10:07 PM)
Guy's lets not forget that W/we live in a free world.. If any of us submissives wish to give and trust to a D that is willing to accept us then without OUR permission no D can take charge of us. So i have to say that submission is a GIFT.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/1/2007 2:27:01 PM)
My submission may be a gift but for the submissive his Domianance is a gift also. When I am Dominated i feel appreciative and thankful for his gift of Dominating me. Its not an easy task and filled with responsibility so I value the gift and freedom to let go.

velvetears -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/1/2007 4:37:23 PM)
If i give my submission to someone as a way to become more complete, more who i am, more satisfied in my life, more content, etc how is giving my submission a gift? Seems to me if i have a need to express my submission to someone and have their dominance reciprocated i am not gifting anyone - i am exchanging what i need with someone who, by fulfilling it, has his own needs met. Submission is not a gift [:'(]

stella41b -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/1/2007 7:54:25 PM)
I disagree with this OP. I recently tried the submission is a gift route along with the unconditional love bit and got taken for a mug. The only successful relationship, whether D/s, M/s or otherwise, is a mutual one. This is where I am now. And I wouldn't change where I am now for the world.

LATEXBABY64 -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/1/2007 8:39:32 PM)
We can also look at it that it is what two people bring to the table on a lot of levels. When I read what people are looking for they never includ things like past job ums those things So when you are geting a sub or dom you are getting there whole world

InkedMaster -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/2/2007 4:22:59 AM)
Unconditional love?, honestly the only time I was ever experienced unconditional love was when I had my pit, here was a a dog that only knew love for me, she was just as excited to see me if I stepped out to get the mail as she was if I was gone for 12 hours. With a Human we place limitations on our love, I love eyesopened more than I have ever loved anyone, but that being said, if she decided to blow the entire University of Michigan football team, we're gonna have a not so pleasent discussion. As I know if I decided to check the insertion depth of every female that said "ooo nice bike" with my cock, I know my ass is getting kicked to the curb. Edited to Uof M because "somebody" has the hots for Wolverines...lol

MissKitt -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/2/2007 4:57:36 AM)
Jewelry is a gift. Dominance/Submission is a mutual exchange that is hopefully beneficial to both.

TysGalilah -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/2/2007 5:10:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissKitt Jewelry is a gift. Dominance/Submission is a mutual exchange that is hopefully beneficial to both. jewelry means nothing to me. I have a few pieces that are valuable to me and I treasure, but that is because of the sentiment in which they were given to me..or memories of the person who owned them before. To me, those emotions make it a gift and important. But then again, I am like that with most material things I have. lightbulb moment> maybe that is why my definition of gift seems different than the consensus ? shrugs....

plushiecat -> RE: The Loving Submissive (12/2/2007 5:46:38 AM)
Gift: Noun something given voluntarily without payment in return as to show favour towards someone, honour an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance. Let's go with that definition for the moment. When I submit to someone, I don't know about the rest of you, but I definitely expect at least a few things in return. I expect that I will be treated well, that I can trust my dominant, and many other things that may seem obvious, but they are things given in return. I would not submit to someone blindly or without the assured knowledge that I would be getting something out of it. D/s is something (as DesFIP and others have said) that works BOTH ways. I don't want a user, I want a shared experience. LatexBaby64 said: >>well then i guess you do not understand value. everything has a value. If you do not value you >>something your right it is not a gift. Have you ever heard the term someone is gifted shrugs I will take this on twofold. First off, not everything has a value to everyone. For example, there are some folks out there that would pay thousands of dollars for a silly piece of cardstock (a baseball card). To me, it means nothing. It is all in the eyes of the beholder. Value is a very subjective thing, as are most things in life. What I hold as valuable, someone else might not, and that's fine. It would be utterly dull if we all thought alike. As for the term 'gifted', that is different that something 'being a gift'. Being 'gifted' in the way you are using it means 'having great special talent or ability'. A second definition of 'gift': something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned Frankly, when I choose to submit to another, I most definitely put effort into it. I suppose it goes back to the saying of 'If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right'. I doubt a dominant would want someone that didn't put effort into the service. Then there is the whole question that I've always had: IF submission is a socalled 'gift', why then is dominance never referred to as such? Not that I see submission as a 'gift', in fact I find the term ludicrous. I just wonder why it's never stated the other way around. No, submission and dominance are not gifts. They are exchanges, and hopefully mutually beneficial ones at that.

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