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Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/26/2007 6:11:17 PM   
gorgeous1


Posts: 367
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline 		Every couple of days, somebody posts on one of the forums about how they have a hard time finding "real" slaves, or "real" Masters, and how lonely it is to not have a partner to share the journey.

Because that's what this is...a journey. There shouldn't really be a rush to get to the destination, should there? Should there be some sort of mad dash, like to an all you can eat buffet, trying to pile your plate high with a little sample of each thing, just so you can say you tried it?

I think (and this is just my observation) that perhaps people are disappointed with all the "real" people they meet because their experience and expectation levels are mis-matched.

My husband and I were fortunate. I knew I was submissive, he knew he was dominant, but neither of us had had any real experience to speak of until we met each other. I'll never forget the sting of that riding crop on my ass the first time. He never will either because it was his first time too. Since I had never been dominated before, and he had never dominated, our first try was absolutely mind-blowing for both of us. I have no experience with anyone else to judge him by, and he has nobody to compare me to either. We are exploring uncharted territory TOGETHER, and to me, this is the best way. After 11 years, we're still exploring, it's still awesome and...it's still awesome!

For instance, we finally bought bondage tape the other day. WOW! I'll spare ya the details, but my point is this:

Maybe a more experienced slave is looking for a real Master, or visa versa, but if he or she only has a little bit of experience, you can't expect that person to instantly catch up to your "saturation level" of kink, and the fact that he or she lacks experience doesn't make them a fake.

I think after reading so many of these "I'm lonely" posts, I have to wonder if it's just that some people are not willing to slow down on their journey and let other travelers catch up, or perhaps it hasn't hit them that "back-tracking" may not be so bad after all.

Anyhow, the thought just hit me. Any ideas?

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/26/2007 6:22:23 PM   
midnightwench


Posts: 30
Joined: 9/18/2007
Status: offline 		I completely agree with you on this. I mentioned in another post of mine how it is a pet peeve of mine for people to accuse others of not being "real" on here. There are examples that would fit that definition, but for the most part people forget that people all move at their own pace. I prefer to get to know someone for a deal of time before I give out things such as messenger information and pictures... why? Because that is how I am.

I get many "your not real" because of that. I have been in the lifestyle now for 15 years. If I'm not real at this point, I think I shall always be a figment of my imagination.

Yes there are game players, yes there are wannabe's, but remember people...not everyone is like that. IF you just take a moment to slow down and meet the person where they are at instead of where you would like them to be, you just might be amazed what you find!


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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/26/2007 6:29:21 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		While I agree with you to some extent, for those that are happily paired, it can seem condenscending when they talk about the journey, the process, not being rushed. It is a far different feeling when you go to bed alone each night... it can feel pretty damn unfulfilled and it does lend to urgency. It is not fun to be a single in a world filled with pairs.

I have a kinda duel existence... since my Daddy lives a few hours away, well I go to bed alone, and I wake up alone, although I am extremely grateful that he is in my life to the extent that he is. I know what it is not to have him there, and that in and of itself makes it rather hard to tell people not to be yearning to find a mate.

I think the problem comes in with the negativity in profiles, it is not that people are very desirous to find a mate, it is that they have become jaded by the experience. That is the flaw.


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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/26/2007 6:37:08 PM   
pinksugarsub


Posts: 1224
Status: offline 		i find myself strangey attracted to a vanilla guy who has a serious interest in kink.  i worry about safety; since he wouldn't necessarially know what was too much force.  But i still think about him.
 
pinksugarsub

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/26/2007 7:04:01 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Many are not capable of sustaining a relationship.

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/26/2007 7:09:41 PM   
angelslave77


Posts: 478
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline 		I think that is an interesting observation. I think a lot of the whole "not real" business also comes from  people joining the site who have an unrealistic or romanticed ideal of wiitwd. To them if you dont fit the ideal then they will become disheartened, and to those who have been around awhile the people without a realistic understanding may seem fake, when in fact both may be very real, it is just that the expectations differ

(I realise after typing this that it is more or less what the op said)

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/26/2007 7:29:06 PM   
Vanatru


Posts: 300
Joined: 4/16/2004
Status: offline 		Definitely people get some big fantasies going. Unfortunately there can be a sense of being in a store or something.. Like it's just a matter of finding the guy or gal that "fits" perfectly. But the reality is that people aren't like clothes or something, and even worse, you're only getting a small idea of who people are by viewing profiles.

When people talk about not finding a "real" anything, they aren't really talking about the other people, they are saying no one matches up to the gargantuan fantasy they've created.

What I'm amazed at is that people aren't even willing to spend time talking to other potential people to find out more who they really are. Do they think they're "saving" themselves for Mr Perfect Dom or mis superslut slave? Is the candystore mentality so overpowering they can't actually stop themselves to find out what's really there?  That's the part I don't get. Or maybe their real (though maybe unconscious) agenda isn't to make connections, but to bitch and moan about not being able to find anyone, and therefore have proof that no one is good enough and/or all the good ones are taken.

Edit: and the idea of "real" master or "real" slave has nothing to do about experience, or otherwise, has everything to do about a lack of real experience.

< Message edited by Vanatru -- 11/26/2007 7:37:22 PM >

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/26/2007 7:32:36 PM   
Bloodrose88


Posts: 42
Joined: 10/27/2007
Status: offline 		I personally am very new to the lifestyle, but my Mistress is not.  And it seems to work for us just fine, but this is mostly because of her patience with having a new and untried submissive.  I certainly do try, but she is wonderful at going slow and easing me into things.
But I can see how sometimes, especially if one did not enjoy "training" their partner, different experience levels could prove awkward.

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/26/2007 7:49:17 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		As someone who began in a pair and has stayed that way, it might be hard for you to understand what it's like to be a single hoping to become a pair. It's not easy and it's sometimes very frustrating. While I don't often use the term real or wannabee, I can say I have encountered several people who were just that. They were not people who were simply incompatible with me, they were people who actually lied about who they were and what they wanted to get some kind of "fix" that I don't really understand.

One told me he wanted to chat on the phone the next night and we set a time. I called him and there was no answer. I left a message saying I would call the next night and the same thing, no answer. About two weeks later he contacted me again and said he'd been really busy at work and apologized. We again set a time to talk on the phone and the same thing happened. I was talking to a couple of women in a local Femdom group about this guy and they both had been played in exactly the same way by him, and he was not the only one.


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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/26/2007 8:01:07 PM   
goodgirl08


Posts: 145
Joined: 6/11/2007
Status: offline 		Everything that rises must converge

It applies to all relationships. Relationships can awkward in general. The first time I met my best friend, she came over to where I was sitting, insulted my haircut for 10 minutes and left. I thought she was a total sociopath, but we had a strong connection and our understanding has grown from there. I can think of countless similar situations.

I guess it's nice if someone fits your bill, but what if you diverge after an initial period of everything being perfect? I feel like it might be harder to deal with differences if you thought you didn't really have any. Right?

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/27/2007 1:25:14 AM   
featheredequine


Posts: 2
Joined: 2/3/2007
Status: offline 		Well, I'm a sub with 11 years experience currently involved with a novice domme. And I can say I find the journey completely and utterly rewarding. It's like getting to go back to that new phase, before I got jaded and bitter and hurt again and again and see it through those fresh eyes again. I know what I like, what I essentially want, what I need...but sharing that journey of discovery with someone else for all the highs and lows...there's nothing to describe it. And it really doesn't hurt that she's sexy, evil, one of the most nurturing and caring people I know, and I am utterly and completely in love with her either.
Yes, I used to have that hangup myself, requiring my dominant to be better, wiser, more experienced and immediately dismissing people just learning because, obviously they couldn't keep up with me. Funny how someone can completely change all that, and how much I've enjoyed having it change.

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/27/2007 2:05:23 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		i tend to agree with you that a lot of people are looking for instant relationships, instant connection, instant everything.  Very few seem to really enjoy the process of discovery.... and that is a process and it takes time.  Then there are the people who define themselves by their partner and sincerely believe that if they have no partner they are nobody.  Those people will tend to say 'it's better than nothing' and go from toxic relationship to another just to not be lonely.  But i learned may years ago that being alone does not have to equal lonely and that i am a whole person all of the time, not just the times i've been paired.

i've been told enough times that i am not 'real' and i accept that i am not 'real' to that person.  i am real enough to my Master and really that's all the real i need to be.

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/27/2007 7:48:22 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		gorgeous,
Assuming that everyone here has a corporeal body every post is from a "real" person, some are so "real" they need 2 or three profiles to exhibit there various "real" persona. The sampling on CM is flawed. An on-line profile is an easy facade to hide behind. No matter what is represented and who represents it, until you get to know them in person, "real" shouldn't be assumed.

Meeting then gets into the long range and variations of "relationship". Meeting the "real" person doesn't mean the representation of their goals and desires on their profile is any more valid. The desire for a "relationship" can mean a relationship defined as meeting every other weekend for a play date, or moving in 24/7. You won't and can't find out if your definition matches without spending some casual time together and relationship frenzy passes. The drama posts you reference usually occur coming out of the "frenzy".

Desperation to be in a relationship is a factor, but "I'm lonely" is a symptom of a bigger problem that most don't want to face. Being lonely sometimes speaks to not liking yourself when you are alone. "I'm lonely" potentially means you lack enough confidence to be happy with yourself. Then again, being "lonely" doesn't mean you are unhappy. You can be happy and be lonely as much as you can be unhappy in a room full of "friends". Requiring another person or a "relationship" to be happy pushes you from relationship to relationship to avoid that thought. If you can make someone else happy, you should be happy with yourself - Right? Usually wrong, because in compromising to serve someone else's happiness it's more likely you never learn what makes you truly happy. Within a relationship there is "service" involved regardless of what side of the flogger you identify.

The step skipped most often is self awareness. Most people aren't "real" to themselves, making it extremely unlikely they can be real with anyone else. They don't know how. Better yet, they don't know who, when it comes to themselves. There is an effort and time requirement for the process, and the process never really ends. People evolve, the entity they create when they join to form a relationship must also evolve. A relationship isn't an end point goal, it's a starting point. Now all the self awareness and self evaluation has a larger consideration. It requires the strong foundation of self awareness but how high you go depends on an ongoing building process based on that foundation. Again - a process requiring time, and only referenced by failure.

I think the disparity of experience is the least likely cause for problems. I speak from experience. I had lifestyle relationships, casual and long term, for 20 years prior to meeting beth. she was under the impression that her "dark" fantasies and desires could only be experienced in places like Amsterdam and the pre-Guiliani version of New York City's 42nd Street. Five years ago she thought a flogger required batteries. Seeing things and experiencing them through her eyes made them new again for me. It was fun. It still is! Regardless of the experience going in, everything you do within a relationship is "uncharted territory". Enjoying it together makes it all new.

But then a relationship isn't all positive. Speaking from a personal perspective I don't think I ever experienced being "lonely" until having my current relationship with beth. Regardless of experience or confidence when she is not with me I am lonely.Yes - as stated above, it does represent a reduced level of confidence without her by my side. beth coming into my life made me feel that way and I hate her for it. Let that be a warning for people and another proof of the saying; "be careful what you wish for...".

PS - Buying "bondage tape" at a tack shop or pet store reduces the cost by at least 50% from what you'll pay at an 'Adult' toy store.

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/27/2007 8:00:59 AM   
LATEXBABY64


Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline 		relationships happen on many different levels and different ways the key is to put it first and take response ability for the what you build and make it work. when we become individuallist is when we have the problem. You can thank a lot of problems with relationships being with the fashion nazis. they tend to put their social agendas first. Reminds me of a flock of birds lol

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/27/2007 8:07:56 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

i tend to agree with you that a lot of people are looking for instant relationships, instant connection, instant everything.  Very few seem to really enjoy the process of discovery.... and that is a process and it takes time.  Then there are the people who define themselves by their partner and sincerely believe that if they have no partner they are nobody.  Those people will tend to say 'it's better than nothing' and go from toxic relationship to another just to not be lonely.  But i learned may years ago that being alone does not have to equal lonely and that i am a whole person all of the time, not just the times i've been paired.

i've been told enough times that i am not 'real' and i accept that i am not 'real' to that person.  i am real enough to my Master and really that's all the real i need to be.


I think this was very nicely written.

I do believe that experience levels can play a part of compatibility but often it is an artificial road block.

I do think that many submissive women are looking to be swept off their feet by the perfect dominant and everything that is done feels like a perverted romance novel. I also think many spend more time about the here and now of types of play and not thinking about the bigger picture.

The fact is no matter what experience levels two people have and how different they are no matter what role or gender a power exchange relationship has a deep learning curve for both. Experience with toys is all great and good and experience in power exchange relationships certainly does have benefit but in the end it is about the two people together. It is about both learning about how each tick, it is about the building of trust that has nothing to do with physical safety but the trust of the two people backing up what they have discussed and agreed to live their life.

My Master had solid experience with certain types of play but no experience with 24/7 TPE and I had experience measured in years. We have now been together for nearly a year and we still are not at a place where we both want to be although darn close for various factors. Things do not go smoothly or dreamlike. Like all other relationships it is about time, effort and commitment.



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I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/27/2007 8:33:29 AM   
gorgeous1


Posts: 367
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline 		"PS - Buying "bondage tape" at a tack shop or pet store reduces the cost by at least 50% from what you'll pay at an 'Adult' toy store."

THANK YOU, Mr. and Mrs. Merc! I have a feeling we'll be visiting the tack shop very soon...we've bought things there before even though we don't...errr....own a horse.




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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/27/2007 8:35:27 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gorgeous1

My husband and I were fortunate.

I think after reading so many of these "I'm lonely" posts, I have to wonder if it's just that some people are not willing to slow down on their journey and let other travelers catch up, or perhaps it hasn't hit them that "back-tracking" may not be so bad after all.

Anyhow, the thought just hit me. Any ideas?


Yes. My thought is that you and your husband are lucky to have found each other, so your "journey" is not taken alone.

My other thought is that it must be so easy to pontificate on how single people should stop trying to get to the "destination" (rolls eyes) and how they should "slow" down?

WTF??

The smugness of some threads never ceases to amaze me. I got news for you; many of us, subs or Doms, whatever, are experienced, not experienced, smart, self evolved, self aware, not delusional, polished diamonds who have not found our proper settings.  Experience means nothing; my most intense relationship was with someone much younger than me who had NO BDSM experience to my 20+ years. Our relationship did not falter because of that experience, it faltered because we were not compatible in the ways that you need compatibility to sustain a long term situation. So while he appreciated me, he was not the right setting.

It does not diminish our self worth or make us weird or fucked up that we get lonely. It is precisely the fact that I value myself at such a high value, for example that I do get lonely, since I have been with people who have not been right for me and I would rather be alone with my highly evolved self than be with just anyone for the sake of being in a relationship.

It is has nothing whatsoever to do with mis-matched experience. For some it might have to do with expectation levels and idealizations. But I would venture that for many, like me, we are simply SELECTIVE.

We cannot all be as fortunate as you. And my journey has been very amazing, thanks.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 11/27/2007 8:38:15 AM >

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/27/2007 9:08:39 AM   
gorgeous1


Posts: 367
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: featheredequine

Well, I'm a sub with 11 years experience currently involved with a novice domme. And I can say I find the journey completely and utterly rewarding. It's like getting to go back to that new phase, before I got jaded and bitter and hurt again and again and see it through those fresh eyes again. I know what I like, what I essentially want, what I need...but sharing that journey of discovery with someone else for all the highs and lows...there's nothing to describe it. And it really doesn't hurt that she's sexy, evil, one of the most nurturing and caring people I know, and I am utterly and completely in love with her either.
Yes, I used to have that hangup myself, requiring my dominant to be better, wiser, more experienced and immediately dismissing people just learning because, obviously they couldn't keep up with me. Funny how someone can completely change all that, and how much I've enjoyed having it change.




THERE IT IS.....

I think you are the perfect example here, featheredequine. This is what I'm talking about! She had tons of experience, and it didn't matter that her Domme is a novice. She fell in love with the person, and all the other wonderful things this person had to offer aside from the D/s aspect.

What I was trying to explore on this thread is that I see bdsm as a FACET of the entire gem, not THE gem. I love using analogies, so bear with me here, OK? Say you have a diamond. Let's take a classic round cut. I would say that love, trust, and respect are the large center facet of the gem. The light hits that center facet most often and there, you can gaze into the diamond, and see all the other facets. The center facet gives depth to the jewel and light reflects light reflects light in the middle and it is what enraptures the viewer. Turn the gem, and a smaller, but wonderfully bright facet catches the light and blinds you for a moment...perhaps that was humor, or hopeless romantic, or sexy legs, or generosity...it was a facet of that person (gem) that captures your heart every time the light hits it.

So...I see bdsm as one of those facets in my relationship with my husband. Now how about I compare my diamond on my wedding ring with my relationship with my husband? My diamond happens to be a family inheritance. The gem has a very small inclusion (flaw) in it. If you were standing here with me right now, I could tell you where to look and you would be able to see the flaw. Does it make my ring less beautiful? No. I get compliments on it all the time...and do I tell them, "Thanks, but it has a flaw"? Of course not! It's shiny, it's pretty, it catches the light, and the fact that it has a flaw in it makes it wonderfully unique and one of a kind. Does my husband have flaws? Of course! He's a man! Has he ever hurt my feelings, or broken a promise? Sure. Do I still love him? Yes. Do I still think he's as wonderful as the day I married him? No. I think he's even better, because I choose to focus not on his flaws, but on all the wonderful things that he is and that every day, he does things to reassure me that I chose the right gem.

So, how does this translate to here? Well, weed out the real fakes...meaning the ones who don't follow through, or are for some reason not relationship material and let's get to those who are real and know they are kinky and want it in their lives. They're all gems. They are all flawed. Look into that center facet first and see if it's pretty to look at because even a flawed diamond can be beautiful and capture the light and enrapture those who choose to gaze.

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/27/2007 9:23:52 AM   
gorgeous1


Posts: 367
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: gorgeous1

My husband and I were fortunate.

I think after reading so many of these "I'm lonely" posts, I have to wonder if it's just that some people are not willing to slow down on their journey and let other travelers catch up, or perhaps it hasn't hit them that "back-tracking" may not be so bad after all.

Anyhow, the thought just hit me. Any ideas?


Yes. My thought is that you and your husband are lucky to have found each other, so your "journey" is not taken alone.

My other thought is that it must be so easy to pontificate on how single people should stop trying to get to the "destination" (rolls eyes) and how they should "slow" down?

WTF??

The smugness of some threads never ceases to amaze me. I got news for you; many of us, subs or Doms, whatever, are experienced, not experienced, smart, self evolved, self aware, not delusional, polished diamonds who have not found our proper settings. Experience means nothing; my most intense relationship was with someone much younger than me who had NO BDSM experience to my 20+ years. Our relationship did not falter because of that experience, it faltered because we were not compatible in the ways that you need compatibility to sustain a long term situation. So while he appreciated me, he was not the right setting.

It does not diminish our self worth or make us weird or fucked up that we get lonely. It is precisely the fact that I value myself at such a high value, for example that I do get lonely, since I have been with people who have not been right for me and I would rather be alone with my highly evolved self than be with just anyone for the sake of being in a relationship.

It is has nothing whatsoever to do with mis-matched experience. For some it might have to do with expectation levels and idealizations. But I would venture that for many, like me, we are simply SELECTIVE.

We cannot all be as fortunate as you. And my journey has been very amazing, thanks.




My post was not written with smugness or in a condescending way (as juliaoceana thought) and if you interpreted it as such, I am sorry that you feel that way. Not all posts will fit you or your situation or your particular mood, so there's no need to take it personally.

My observation was based strictly upon reading some people's posts, replies, etc., and seeing that some of them would fit quite nicely together if only they would overlook lack of experience.

Don't worry...I have no intentions of playing Emma...that's what eharmony's for.

I'll check back later...I have some Narcissus bulbs to plant.

_____________________________

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RE: Mis-matched experience a hangup? - 11/27/2007 10:06:01 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		How long is someone to go without being fulfilled while hoping the other person may someday catch up experience wise? Because someone who is very edgy; needles, fireplay etc might get into a relationship with someone who may never get to a point where he feels comfortable doing branding, knife play, violet wands.

You could spend three years while he reaches his comfort zone only to discover he won't ever get to where you are.

Personally I need more basic compatibility. I needed a non sadistic bondage top who was dominant in his interpersonal relationships. If I had taken just anyone I could have wound up with an arch conservative, sadist who hates rope - and I'm not compatible with someone like that.

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Cynical and proud of it!


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