One Party Dream Ticket

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SugarMyChurro -> One Party Dream Ticket (11/23/2007 6:55:57 AM)
Sometimes people make a comment that looks like this: "Paul/Kucinich" in which I think they are attempting a shorthand for a 2008 election that would pit the one against the other. No matter the outcome, we would have someone that was at least a little bit outside the norm if still a member of one of the two largest parties. OK, that could be interesting...but realistically it's not going to happen. Everyone says so on both sides of the equation and I think that Paul doesn't really have the chance that his supporters think he does. But both of those guys have one foot on the moon by common account anyway, so they need to be equally bold in what they do next after their twin losses. What might be even more interesting once these guys get trounced in their respective primaries is for these two supposed friends to come together in some kind of weird crossover thing. Now I think they should really break the mold if they are going to do this and move all the way to a third party. Here's what I'd like to see: Greeen Party Candidates. Kucinich for Prez. Paul for Vice-Prez. The platform: U.S. out of the rest of the world; end of the twin wars in Iraq and Afghanistan; kill the military industrial complex; end our ridiculous federal fluffing of the tobacco, oil, and the arms industries; reign in the multinationals and over-sized domestic only corps; kill the IRS and rework the tax system; kill the fed and rework the monetary system; rebuild our national infrastructure; outlaw usury over 8% and make individual bankruptcy at least as easy as it is for corporations right now; and finally, shift choice and universal healthcare to a state by state thing (really I'd rather have both at the federal level, but this is a constitutionally sound fall back position - or they could support amendments making both constitutional mandates). I'd also like to see free merit based education that accounts for inadequacies in some inner city and rural environments and also free public transportation to encourage its usage. That'll do for now.

farglebargle -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/23/2007 9:02:29 AM)
Yeah, the entire problem is that it makes sense.

Sanity -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/23/2007 9:13:02 AM)
Here's a perfect example: farglebargle seems to be far right, claims to be a Conservative while SMC seems to be ultra Left and champions Socialism. Yet their dream political team is exactly the same... It's exactly what I mean when I say that those on what's called "the far right" are so far to the right that they've gone full-circle and are in reality on the Left.

TheHeretic -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/23/2007 9:25:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro The platform: U.S. out of the rest of the world; end of the twin wars in Iraq and Afghanistan; kill the military industrial complex; end our ridiculous federal fluffing of the tobacco, oil, and the arms industries; reign in the multinationals and over-sized domestic only corps; kill the IRS and rework the tax system; kill the fed and rework the monetary system; rebuild our national infrastructure; outlaw usury over 8% and make individual bankruptcy at least as easy as it is for corporations right now; and finally, shift choice and universal healthcare to a state by state thing (really I'd rather have both at the federal level, but this is a constitutionally sound fall back position - or they could support amendments making both constitutional mandates). I'd also like to see free merit based education that accounts for inadequacies in some inner city and rural environments and also free public transportation to encourage its usage. That'll do for now. Lemme see if I have this straight. We're going to rip out the foundations of the economy we have, surrender our global interests (ripping out another big hunk of the economy) AND rebuild our infrastructure and make the buses free? With what money are we going to be patching potholes, much less building anything new? Once the IRS is gone, where do you plan to get the money to provide welfare at 20% unemployment? I gotta tell you, Sugar, Americans aren't likely to quietly starve, so calculate in some major increases in social services. Or is your dream administration going to be the sort that sends the National Guard out to disperse hungry people? I say, very bad idea.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/23/2007 10:26:59 AM)
We can just tax the rich based on a previous year's tax record. Take everything over $10 million per head. That's enough for anyone. [;)]

pahunkboy -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/23/2007 10:57:29 AM)
Technically we are now bankrupt. SHH dont tell the shoppers. Overnight the currency devaluation- tho not on the national agenda=-you can bet Wallstreet is aware of it.

Sanity -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/23/2007 10:59:40 AM)
Destroy all major employers, nice. What would you plan for the encore? quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro We can just tax the rich based on a previous year's tax record. Take everything over $10 million per head. That's enough for anyone. [;)]

Manawyddan -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/24/2007 4:13:15 AM)
That makes me laugh, because when I saw the subject line I immediately thought 'Paul/Kucinich.' It won't happen though. As muc respect as I have for each of them, their economic policies are almost diametrically opposed. Paul would never align with the Greens, and Kucinich never would with the Libertarians.

NorthernGent -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/24/2007 6:15:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro The platform: U.S. out of the rest of the world; end of the twin wars in Iraq and Afghanistan; kill the military industrial complex; end our ridiculous federal fluffing of the tobacco, oil, and the arms industries; reign in the multinationals and over-sized domestic only corps; kill the IRS and rework the tax system; kill the fed and rework the monetary system; rebuild our national infrastructure; outlaw usury over 8% and make individual bankruptcy at least as easy as it is for corporations right now; and finally, shift choice and universal healthcare to a state by state thing (really I'd rather have both at the federal level, but this is a constitutionally sound fall back position - or they could support amendments making both constitutional mandates). I'd also like to see free merit based education that accounts for inadequacies in some inner city and rural environments and also free public transportation to encourage its usage. That'll do for now. SMC, people in the West...they won't go for these policies. Like it or not, the likes of you, I and those sick to the back teeth of corporations running government are an insignificant minority. People just don't care where the money is coming from providing they have money in their back pockets. Imposing a few policies in the current climate of education and culture won't be enough; to be frank, it can't work without a widespread grass roots movement. How many people actually realise that they have been disenfranchised? Nowhere near the amount needed to generate real, lasting change. The West needs an enlightenment along the lines of the English, French and American versions of the 18th century: no amount of legislation is going to change anything without a supporting wider climate of education and culture, people will simply lurch from one corporate/media driven policy to another. I suppose it boils down to possessions versus liberty, and the West isn't enlightened enough to understand which is the more self-serving of the two; future generations understand oppression, in years to come people will look back at us in a similar fashion to how we look back at the absolutism of the 18th century. Either that, or find an uninhabited Island and set up shop under a truly egalitarian system with no exclusive and inclusive policies on any grounds whatsoever.....man, woman, beast, race, religion etc...everyone gets a fair crack of the whip. In the meantime, I'll have a beer and relax about the whole thing...I'll always vote, but never in expectation!

TheHeretic -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/24/2007 9:20:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent everyone gets a fair crack of the whip. And there is the problem with that, North. Some people are nothing but lazy shits, perfectly content to go cruising through life on what they are "entitled" to. I like that they go to a different urgent care than I do, and cannot afford to live on my new street. I go to work every day to keep it that way. If everybody gets the same crap, what's the point of not just sleeping 'til 9:00?

Sanity -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/24/2007 10:37:34 AM)
You'll be so busy on that little island of yours making basic everyday items by hand that you won't have the time to enjoy a casual beer ever again. You won't have any modern niceties. You'll live like cavemen, infested with all kinds of vermin. After all, the major poison and medicine manufacturers would be your enemy there, as would every other major manufacturer of things that people like - such as glass bottles, computer parts, electrical wire, toilet paper... everything! You couldn't compete with China, making everything by hand, and you couldn't buy machinery from evil Capitalists... You would be so unbelievably miserable there that you'd come begging for the society of evil capitalists to let you back in in no time at all! quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent SMC, people in the West...they won't go for these policies. Like it or not, the likes of you, I and those sick to the back teeth of corporations running government are an insignificant minority. People just don't care where the money is coming from providing they have money in their back pockets. Imposing a few policies in the current climate of education and culture won't be enough; to be frank, it can't work without a widespread grass roots movement. How many people actually realise that they have been disenfranchised? Nowhere near the amount needed to generate real, lasting change. The West needs an enlightenment along the lines of the English, French and American versions of the 18th century: no amount of legislation is going to change anything without a supporting wider climate of education and culture, people will simply lurch from one corporate/media driven policy to another. I suppose it boils down to possessions versus liberty, and the West isn't enlightened enough to understand which is the more self-serving of the two; future generations understand oppression, in years to come people will look back at us in a similar fashion to how we look back at the absolutism of the 18th century. Either that, or find an uninhabited Island and set up shop under a truly egalitarian system with no exclusive and inclusive policies on any grounds whatsoever.....man, woman, beast, race, religion etc...everyone gets a fair crack of the whip. In the meantime, I'll have a beer and relax about the whole thing...I'll always vote, but never in expectation! (bold emphasis added)

NorthernGent -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/24/2007 10:41:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent everyone gets a fair crack of the whip. And there is the problem with that, North. Some people are nothing but lazy shits, perfectly content to go cruising through life on what they are "entitled" to. I like that they go to a different urgent care than I do, and cannot afford to live on my new street. I go to work every day to keep it that way. If everybody gets the same crap, what's the point of not just sleeping 'til 9:00? Rich, you've misrepresented my quote. I never said anything about "everbody getting the same crap". I'm talking about equal access to opportunity. Early US history is enlightening; a system where almost anyone could fill official positions, (well, you had to be a man, over 35, and native born to become the President, but the point stands), had all sorts of positive effects for well-being and prosperity; for example, around 1760, the average lifespan in the US was 45 versus 32 in Europe, and actuarial stats (admittedly calculated by Jefferson) suggested that Americans worked longer hours: incentivise people by giving them equal opportunity, and they'll take it. Prosperity, liberty and equal access to opportunity are interlinked.

TheHeretic -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/24/2007 10:52:51 AM)
We already have equal opportunity, North. McDonald's and Burger King will hire absolutely anybody. Where you go from there is entirely up to you.

NorthernGent -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/24/2007 11:02:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic We already have equal opportunity, North. McDonald's and Burger King will hire absolutely anybody. Where you go from there is entirely up to you. 'Could be wrong, but I have a feeling that the vast majority of your Presidents, politicians and CEOs don't start their working lives flipping burgers. Wasn't bush born into wealth and status, or is he the best that the United States has to offer?

SugarMyChurro -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/24/2007 11:10:47 AM)
TheHeretic: I see you have learned Republican claptrap very well. Entitlement, huh? So, some poor slob that needs public assistance is going to hurt your bottom line, huh? Interesting theory... What's more realistically true is that this Republican administration has people like yourself staring at the smoke and fire of illegal immigration, eBay millionaires, and single mothers on public assistance while they literally empty out the taxpayer's bank and hand it out to their pals. When the bank wasn't enough they refilled it on the back of what your grandchildren will still owe in decades to come. You've already lost track of the pea in this shell game. They have managed to distract you while the real financial ass fucking has already taken place. But don't worry, I hear it only hurts for a moment the first time. [;)] http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040105/krugman

Sanity -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/24/2007 11:18:11 AM)
True enough, we don't look to burger flippers for our leaders, you got us on that one quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent 'Could be wrong, but I have a feeling that the vast majority of your Presidents, politicians and CEOs don't start their working lives flipping burgers. Wasn't bush born into wealth and status, or is he the best that the United States has to offer?

TheHeretic -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/24/2007 11:29:09 AM)
Being able to send one's ____s out into the world with a bit of a start is one of those things people work so hard for, North. Keeping them the hell out of classes designed for the pace of the stupidest child is worth taking a second job. It's one of those motivators to get up in the morning.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/24/2007 11:36:15 AM)
Anyone that refuses to acknowledge class conflict in the U.S. just isn't a reality based thinker in my view. Just one more political 800 pound gorilla in the room to ignore. My question is: how many aspects of political reality can be ignored simultaneously until it all tumbles down like a house of cards?

NorthernGent -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/24/2007 11:37:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Being able to send one's ____s out into the world with a bit of a start is one of those things people work so hard for, North. Keeping them the hell out of classes designed for the pace of the stupidest child is worth taking a second job. It's one of those motivators to get up in the morning. Bush has had a bit of a start?! More than a bit of a start...serious question, is bush in the top 5% of Americans, or even the top 50%...is he really the shining example of a meritocracy? Rich, there are people from all backgrounds who have 2 jobs and work long hours......the difference being that those at the bottom of the pecking order take two jobs to make ends meet.

TheHeretic -> RE: One Party Dream Ticket (11/24/2007 1:34:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro Anyone that refuses to acknowledge class conflict in the U.S. just isn't a reality based thinker in my view. I certainly acknowledge class conflict, Sugar. Two months ago I was in regular conflict with the trash class moving into my neighborhood with their housing subsidies. I've been at the bottom of the economic ladder. People who are content to stay there deserve what they get. A safety net is a wonderful thing. It should never become a nice comfy hammock. Don't blame the Republicans for how I think. It was the Liberals who insisted I be taught about survival of the fittest in school.

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