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SugarMyChurro -> Dangerous Friends (11/23/2007 1:14:42 AM)

"US storm over book on Israel lobby"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7104030.stm

America spends $3bn a year in largely military assistance - one-sixth of its direct aid budget - to help a prosperous, nuclear-armed country, and strongly backs Israel in negotiations on Middle East peace.

But according to Mearsheimer and Walt, the US gets remarkably little in return.

-----

What else could we do with $3bn a year? I'd say we should do almost anything else with it but mindlessly support Israel. WTF?




Termyn8or -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/23/2007 2:24:56 AM)

Didn't even look at the link, I simply don't have to. And your figures are off, it is more like six, not three.

If you are just getting into how things work in the world, throw me an email on the other side. I have alot of interesting things for you.

The scope and detail of my knowledge base is literally too much for this forum, but buddy, it is way worse than you ever thought.

T




pahunkboy -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/23/2007 5:42:37 AM)

Isreal is a mute point. For better or for worse- the US always supports such.




Estring -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/23/2007 11:47:45 PM)

Ah the Anti Semitic point of view.
Actually, that Israel is the only democracy in that region probably is why we support them. But Anti Semitism is just so cool for some. Blame the Jews.




popeye1250 -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/24/2007 12:39:20 AM)

This year's appropriation for "foreign aid" was $34.6 B up from $12B ten years ago.
I don't believe in any foreign aid by our government.
If individuals want to do it fine, that's the way it should be done.
This is *another* reason that so many in Washington are afraid of Ron Paul.
They have a nice gravy train going with "foreign aid."
Also, a country that is broke like the U.S. now is caan't afford to be wasting money like this!




Termyn8or -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/24/2007 2:34:43 AM)

Estring, you have ALOT to learn.

If Rabbi Yisroel Wiess showed up at my door I would welcome him in, and give him hospitality. If he was hungry I would offer up the most kosher thing I could come up with.

If I saw Ariel Sharon in the sights of my gun I would squeeze the trigger.

That is not racist or anti semitic. And I am sick of being called an anti semite for my criticism of the Jews, more aptly put though, Israel. Not the people. Their government in conjunction with the US government is starting WW 3 and if you have a triple digit IQ you can see it happening now.

In general I have found Jews to be highly intelligeant, and easy to deal with for the most part. I have found the same of other Semites. It is their "leaders" and ours who are embarking on this journey into oblivion.

We could just all get along, but there is this cabal of war mongers who are hell bent on seeing Armageddon. Just let them come, can't be their runaround. Those are the words of Michael Stanley, not mine.

The Bolshevics freed the Russians from the Czar, the bombs freed the Jews from the Palestinians, and infected blankets freed us from the American Natives.

My point is this, we do what we do, we may try to be good but we can't always do it. My point is, don't try to pretend that we are a moral and just people, because we are not.

Accept that and I think we will all get along better.

T




NakedGirlScout -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/24/2007 2:58:02 AM)

ewwww I thought this thread was going to be about backstabbing friends, not politics. LMAO such a let-down. Boooo!




pahunkboy -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/24/2007 5:12:55 AM)

Isreal is a mute point. For better or for worse- the US always supports such.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

Ah the Anti Semitic point of view.
Actually, that Israel is the only democracy in that region probably is why we support them. But Anti Semitism is just so cool for some. Blame the Jews.


You are attempting to control me with this unfounded, bizzarre accusation.

I do not wish to be controlled.




Real0ne -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/24/2007 5:34:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

Ah the Anti Semitic point of view.
Actually, that Israel is the only democracy in that region probably is why we support them. But Anti Semitism is just so cool for some. Blame the Jews.



you obviously dont know the difference or are trying to shut down any constructive debate regarding israel.

.
We supposrt them because its our foothold in the ME.

There are a lot of countries that are labeleda  democracy.









Aneirin -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/24/2007 6:41:09 AM)

Why not leave Israel and there Palestine to their own devices, sink or swim, the forging of a nation as has ever been.

If Israel is so wealthy, let them get on with it on their own, perhaps then there would be a mite less hatred for the US and it's citizens.

If it is a foothold in the middle east the US wants, why not stand back and let nature take it's course, you could always mop up later, with forces intact, and perhaps the required wealth gained through saving money that would have gone elsewhere.

I am sure the US citizens would be in a happier position, with their sons and daughters not fighting someone elses war on foreign shores.




pahunkboy -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/24/2007 7:29:08 AM)

It would be nice to have peace in the middle east. But America is no one to talk.

Isreal needs to get over the fact that Palistine, and Palistinian people exist. Both peoples are being stubborn.

Building settlements in disputed land only exaberates the issues.  I seen how water is lavishly used by some but denied to others.

I dont know alot about this. Isreal DOES have a right to exist. The land taken during the 6 day war- well- being attacked, so keeping it as a buffer makes sense.

One can go round and round in circular logic on this issue.

Working with the public- all types came thru. Both sides.  Well each man thought they were SO BEING screwed per a simple gas transaction. If you are nice- they think something is up.

Also- I would not want to live with soldiers on my roof, walking around all night.

Stopping US foreign aid to Isreal will never happen.  However- the decline- in effect the devaluation of the US dollar- pretty much describes what world investors think of "empire"




popeye1250 -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/24/2007 9:23:55 AM)

What % increase is $34.6 B from $12 B?
I'd "ballpark" it at 190%.




SugarMyChurro -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/24/2007 9:33:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring
Ah the Anti Semitic point of view.


That's a really deeply ignorant comment. Sadly, I am not surprised it has appeared in this thread. Do you even know who the Semites are? Here is a common dictionary definition:

-----

Semite:
1. A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.
2. A Jew.
3. Bible. A descendant of Shem.

-----

So, as it turns out not specifically supporting the state of Israel doesn't really mean opposing Semites - as Semites include many of the peoples of the M.E. If by chance you meant that the view expressed was Anti-Jewish, then again the problem is that many Jews living outside the state of Israel oppose many of the political values of that state. Israel does not equal Jewish, however much small minds want to make that equation. The Israeli lobby is a political entity that may or may not include Jewish members, but it hardly represents some kind of universal Jewish mindset about issues in the M.E. Going one step further, even some of the people in the state of Israel oppose the views and values maintained by the majority as represented by the state of Israel - so even from within there are dissenters.

Did you even have a point with that bit?





Raechard -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/24/2007 9:58:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Why not leave Israel and there Palestine to their own devices, sink or swim, the forging of a nation as has ever been.


The Western world wants not democracy for the middle east but the right kind of democracy. If it was all about what the people there wanted then no one in the west would care that Hamas won the popular vote in Palestine. No one would care that the majority of people in Iraq want a government that follows Islamic law. The west wants for the middle east to be run by puppets of the western governments as it always has been. Why is the question and the answer is resources, end of debates thanks for all those that took part. [:D]




Real0ne -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/24/2007 10:20:52 AM)



Thats putting the cart before the horse...  if you pay close atttention to the news on israels side of town and then relate it back here in the states you will notice israel sneezes and we come running with a hankee to wiper her butt.

Iran invasion is being fueled by a joint partnership of israel and america to gain sentiment, it all bullshit put into the pot but it smells nice to the public to sell yet another invasion.




Real0ne -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/24/2007 10:24:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

It would be nice to have peace in the middle east.


that would be political suicide because then we would have no reason to sell the american people on staying there and or continuing to support israel.

peace over there will never happen, its a nice show however for us.




Termyn8or -> RE: Dangerous Friends (11/24/2007 10:35:03 AM)

Hold on, Jews ARE Semites.

Along with other Semites they just can't agree on where everyone is going to live.

Now get this in your head, the normal Jew is a Semite, a Hebrew, whatever. The powers that be in Israel are not Semites.

So anything I say about what Israel does has absolutely nothing to do with the Jews anymore than the actions of the Bonesmen here in this country reflect any of my interests. I have way too much information on this to be so stupid to think the two are related.

The fact of the matter is that the ruling class of Israel is comprised of the nastiest, greediest MFs on the planet, but you have to understand, they are not Jews. They are as Jewish as much as Bush is a Christian. When you use fucking depleted uranium weapons in towns and villages, you are a MF. We are that MF. Get it ?

Zionists are not Semitic. You want me to talk about real Jews ? OK, I have a bitch. I loaned a Jew a CD with some programs on it and he never returned it. Let's start an international incident over it ! That's all I have to say about any Jew. One of "them" did not return my disk.

Now with that out of the way hopefully, we can go on. The government of Israel is not run by the People anymore than ours is. There is a ruling class there, the Zionists. And Zionists are not only not Jews, they are not even Semites. This war has nothing to do with religion, just money and control. Never did. Zionists are pretty much modern day Pharises. There is no religion for them, it is merely a method of control, a means to an end.

There are at least hundreds of Jews in jail in Israel for deserting the army, because they were through running children over with tanks and shit like that. They couldn't handle another tour of duty and prefer to sit in jail. Now just how fucking anti-Semitic am I now ?

I have a picture of some orthodox Jews demonstrating in NYC against the state of Isreal, saying that it shouldn't even exist,,,,,yet. It is one of my most cherished possesions, because it shows me that the wrong people are running their country, just like here. It shows me that Jews are not the enemy, but their leaders are, but then so are ours.

They are as helpless as we are to stop this shit going on. Now just how anti-Semitic am I ?

To sum it up, I will admit to being a racist, I love my race, if I have children I want them to be of the race I am and if that is wrong, go fuck yourself. But do not accuse me of being a bigot. That is a whole different thing.

We all need a lesson in terminology. First of all I can't be an anti-Semite anyway, Jews are not the only Semites. You know most of the Arab world is Semitic. That includes Israel's worst enemies.

A bigot believes that he is better than someone else due to his lineage.

A racist wants to promote prosperity, passion and progress of his race. This is not to be done at the expense of anyone else.

A power hungry MF might be a member of Skull and Bones, the Trilateral commision, sit on the board of the IMF. But these associations prove nothing. It is by their actions only that we can determine their intent. Their goals.

Actually Soros is one of the more perplexing ones, ruling class no doubt, but some of his actions leave me with a blank. He tried to get pot legalized, why ? I mean he has enough money to take care of any legal problems, so why try to legalize it ? Does he actually care about other people ? Actually I would guess no, there is another reason. Is he a Jew ? I do not even know, and it really doesn't matter.

Yes we have some dangerous friends, but we are dangerous friends. Just when does that stop ?

T




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