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How safe are your personal details ? - 11/21/2007 11:49:10 AM

Politesub53

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It has just been announced that two cd`s containing personal details of some 25 million people in the UK, have been lost in the post. These contains details such as national insurance, date of birth, address details and bank account details. Its a disgrace that the government can be so careless with individuals information

Edits to add link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7104945.stm

< Message edited by Politesub53 -- 11/21/2007 11:50:09 AM >

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RE: How safe are your personal details ? - 11/21/2007 11:56:35 AM

RCdc

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Have to say politeone, this has me feeling sick to my stomach as this involves me. Try ringing the helpline and all you get is that it's too busy. I am more worried for the future than right now, and those that are involved.

the.dark.

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RE: How safe are your personal details ? - 11/21/2007 11:57:11 AM

pahunkboy

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I seen that on bloomberg tv. Astounding! How can anyone had 1/2 the countries citzen data - stored so slopily?

I dont expect much privacy -= all the laws do is make more forms necessary to sign. "confidential" means - you have to know someone to access it.

puzzling how- things like MRIS- and college degrees- if they are too old- they practically expire. where as a criminal record can haunt one their entire life. I was un-good when I learned to go for a real estate license my college classes I had in the 80s would not count-as it is too old. The system can shove it.

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RE: How safe are your personal details ? - 11/21/2007 12:04:15 PM

Politesub53

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Pahunk this is the deal. It wasnt stored on the discs, access and storage are controlled by the data protection act. It seems that one Government agency wanted some, not all, of the information held on the public. They needed this to carry out checks on people defrauding the system, which is fair enough. Someone in the second agency decided to download all the info onto two discs and send it by post. It wasnt even sent by registered mail, which is fairly cheap and very secure.

dark my friend, i am sorry to hear this affects you. it must be very worrying indeed and quite frankly the government advice, which amounts to "Check your bank account daily" is frankly absurd.

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RE: How safe are your personal details ? - 11/21/2007 12:30:34 PM

Crush

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Remember: Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

There is no way to guarantee privacy anymore as long as you are part of any "system." And we generally aren't willing or able to go totally off the grid. So it is something we will learn to live, and deal, with as massive data continues to collect. But more importantly, it isn't the data, is the ability to query the data, that counts the most.

I have had a couple incidents...once when in Vegas my bank card was being "used" in New Orleans. And a couple others. The trick is just to spread yourself around and be able to land no matter what hits. Even if it means setting up a LifeLock(tm) account or such.

After all, the goal of technology is to enhance communication and information access, not secure it.

The trick to surviving is to expect bad things and be prepared to survive them in some way.

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RE: How safe are your personal details ? - 11/21/2007 12:34:12 PM

RCdc

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What sucks, isn't so much myself, but the fact that their are details that can be used in the future for fraud as the CHB entitlements and all the lists of birth certs and ages and names of dependants are on there - these are people who haven't even really started in life yet - with no credit etc. What happens when they suddenly find in 12-16 years that they have been 'duplicated'? I find it appalling.

the.dark.

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RE: How safe are your personal details ? - 11/21/2007 12:43:16 PM

pahunkboy

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One presumes the identity they are stealing is better then their own. this is not always the case.

Jenny was saying how she doesnt get the correct change at walmart. I said- the cashiers dont care.

The grid goes down and people dont have a clue how to cope. I get antsy waiting at a hardware store- 3 people standing around but no one works there.

The employer treats employee like shtt- the employee treats the customer poorly- with no customers there would be no job.

Lou Dobbs said the economy is bad for middle class- but great for the stock market.

In days past- a person was known in their village. The business and life of the self.
The brief period of anomonity we had- was a fluke. Now we are data-ized- ..even if it is the WRONG data.

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RE: How safe are your personal details ? - 11/21/2007 2:32:18 PM

susie

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You have to remember though that the Government have said that there is "no evidence" that the discs have fallen into criminal hands. Oh well that is OK then. They have no idea where the discs are or who has them but they have no evidence of criminal involvement!

Timeline for all this is
Oct 18th Discs sent out of Revenue and Customs
Nov 8th Senior Management told discs missing
Nov 10th Chancellor told about missing discs. He tells Prime Minister
Nov 14th Police called in
Nov 16th Chancellor tells banking industry
Nov 20th Statement made in the House of Commons

So it took 10 days from the time the Chancellor knew the discs were missing until he announced it to the people that matter, the public. Who knows who might now have access to the information on those discs and what they might use it for.

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RE: How safe are your personal details ? - 11/21/2007 2:57:46 PM

Crush

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Well, I guess my generation was right: "Trust No One"

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RE: How safe are your personal details ? - 11/21/2007 3:43:59 PM

LadyEllen

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This entire episode is disgusting
- the data was accessible to a junior member of staff, 23 years old
- the data was possible to download to disk
- the data was not encrypted
- the data was sent with the post
- this entire debacle was known about and allowed to occur not once but several times
- this entire debacle was known about and allowed to occur by very senior executive officers, in direct contravention of procedures
- and now, the best bit - although the head of the organisation has resigned, the blame for it is being placed on the 23 year old guy who apparently is responsible even though the senior executive officers failed to intervene - several times
- and we're told to "check our bank details" as a response

pardon my language but WHAT THE FUCK!? In the age when apparently we're "customers" when it comes to the delivery of government services, is this meant to be customer service?

And now, they want us to have ID cards with all our details on them.
- there's no security problem, the system will be more robust - we've had system disaster after system disaster when it comes to government software purchasing; why is this going to be any different?
- there's no security problem, there will be procedures in place - there were "procedures in place" to avoid this disaster too
- there's no security problem, the ID cards wont have bank details on them - maybe, but they will have all thats needed to set up new accounts, credit cards, loans etc, all of which will trace back to the innocent person

I'm sorry, but this organisation is not good enough. Its not good enough for a third world country. Its not good enough for a Sunday afternoon under 14s football league even. And we have no sanction for two and a half years.

And all of this as the pound slides due to the banking crisis and fuel soars due to the Iraq situation. Time to get into the Euro and into the EU properly where we can be a big fish, reform the electoral system and put real controls over government and the so called "financial services" industry, and maybe just maybe get to expect and receive excellent public services that are managed and delivered competently as they are on the continent.

E

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RE: How safe are your personal details ? - 11/21/2007 5:06:35 PM

Aneirin

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I honestly feel for those whose personal information is on one of these lost discs and as to the government saying not to worry, they always say that, I suppose they are not the ones with the risk.

And to think at some point the government is going to force national identity cards for security purposes, given this latest fiasco, are identity cards going to be of much use, no doubt at some point that sensitive information will be compromised at some point.

What really scares me, are those that trust the government, personally, I do not, I did at one time until I learned.

Those involved with all this sensitive data, are just people doing their job for the pay and the pension, They do not care about it, it seems they are beyond blame as always, personally, I think all those concerned should be brought to task about it and if necessary do as industry does and lose their job.Maybe then, civil servants might get the hint that what they are dealing with are people's lives, not just data

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RE: How safe are your personal details ? - 11/22/2007 3:47:58 AM

RCdc

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This is Darcy.

I'm with Aneirin in my distrust of the government. This incident is unfortunately just yet another example of the sheer incompetence that has become the hallmark of our current 'masters'. I do have some respect for the head of the service who resigned, he at least proved himself to be one of the very few publice servants who has a shred of integrity and decency. The same, sadly, cannot be said for Alastair Darling, our beloved Chancellor who really is making groundbreaking progress in redefining the word 'inept'. He and our out-of-his-depth Prime Minister are carrying on Tony Blair's legacy of making our government, and by association our country, the laughing stock of the world.

While there is no excuse for the appaling breach of security that has occurred here, as I was saying to .dark. last night, one good thing about the details that have been leaked is that, bank details aside, there is nothing on these discs that isn't already in the public domain, or which could not be obtained by shady characters with half a day and a few hundred pounds to spare through perfectly legal channels. National insurance numbers, birth records, addresses etc are all freely available under the Freedom of Information Act - the difference is these discs merely compile them all into a single place.

To those that are afected by this, which includes .dark., and by extension myself, I would offer this advice. Don't rush to change your bank accounts as a knee-jerk reaction - the possibility of this information being used by criminals is very slim indeed, and even if they do get hold of the discs, you are but one out of twenty-five million names on there, and so the chances of you being targeted are only slightly better than those of winning the lottery. Equally, though they may have bank details, without passwords and other personal information (e.g. the security questions they ask when you try and access an account by phone) then there really is nothing there that can be used to any great effect. Plus, if by some small chance you were targeted by the bad guys, all of the losses are indemnified by the banks, and besides, the governement could not afford for a single person to be a single penny out of pocket as a result of this gross incompetence.

Be vigilant, be aware, but don't panic and don't be afraid. Your biggest problem is not the criminals, but the government itself.

(There is one silver lining to this - it's certain to bury the whole ID cards issue - nobody will trust this, or any other, government to handle this scheme for years to come.)

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RE: How safe are your personal details ? - 11/22/2007 3:54:36 AM

LadyEllen

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I'm sorry but I disagree - this will not bury the ID cards scheme. Even after the CSA disaster (which cost lives), the military logistics software disaster (which has cost lives), the previous leaks from HMRC (the Standard Life one a few months back), the government is still hell bent on ID cards.

The only way to stop it is for all of us to say no when theyre introduced. They have 2 years plus more to get all this stuff in place.

E

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RE: How safe are your personal details ? - 11/22/2007 4:00:23 AM

LadyEllen

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1. Look at your credit report regularly.

The information in the Child Benefit Agency records is enough for a criminal to apply for loans, credit cards and even mortgages in your name - as well as other forms of credit such as mobile telephone and catalogue accounts. The Home office recommends that you protect your identity by checking your credit report regularly.* Your credit report lists all your credit commitments and recent applications for credit, so you can instantly see if someone has been trying to use your ID and put a stop to problems before they can develop.

2. Check your bank statements carefully.

With your account data and basic personal information, criminals could try to get hold of your money. If you spot any unfamiliar transactions, tell your bank immediately and explain the circumstances.

3. Minimise the information you post on social networking sites.

Organised gangs are now focusing on ID fraud as a profit centre and they know that many people give away useful snippets that could be passwords or key dates giving access to your bank and card accounts.

4. Watch out for hoax calls, letters or e-mails.

Taking advantage of your distress in the wake of a data breach, criminals may call, e-mail or write pretending to need further information in order to protect you- so don't give away information to people you do not know.

5. Ensure that your bank and credit card account passwords do not relate to the data that could be compromised.

Many of us tend to use details such as children's names and memorable dates as passwords to protect our bank and credit card accounts. Fraudsters are likely to make a good guess at these passwords which will give them access to your finances for further theft and much more. Make sure you update your passwords on a regular basis and use unique words that do not relate to data that could be compromised in a data breach.

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