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RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 7:11:55 AM   
Twicehappy2x


Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline 		Damnit erin, dominant man = God,  and babies are found under cabbage leaves.

quote:

So how do we dispel those myths? How do we change those perceptions? 


We quit letting dominant men write the submissive hand book?

_____________________________

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 7:15:44 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Maybe there's a full moon or something but there certainly seems to be a rash of posts from women asking "is this right?" when describing a situation that they should very clearly know is wrong. Why is it that when a man claims to be a "Dominant", claims to be "teaching" you the lifestyle, claims that power exchange relationships mean that you must put up with shit that you would never, ever put up with normally, etc, etc,....women lose their heads and all of their common sense. Surely, grown adult women can not be this naive?


Perhaps because this is a tricky area?  Let's face it...there are indeed some situations in which it is quite clear to almost everyone that the dominant is acting in a manner that almost any other dominant would cringe over because a fool like that makes us all look bad.  However...and here is where the tricky part comes in...look at all the threads on here in which page after page has gone on with arguments/disagreements/agreements with a point of view that clearly works most of the time for that particular dynamic but which has gone wrong this one time and the submissive has come to the board seeking advice and been blasted.  There are things within other dynamics that seem outlandish to me and many others but which to those that practice them or those who go along with the idea of "to each his own" seem perfectly fine.

At what point does something become "clearly wrong"?  I know I have seen things mentioned that I thought were abusive (think Daddy's prop and some of her writings) and have been told that it was part of their dynamic and she "had agreed" to it.  I have seen things that in my mind were seen from more of a semantic, romantic nature than a realistic nature and yet, if followed through, seemed clearly wrong-headed and have again been told "it is part of their D/s dynamic". 

Someone mentioned a snapshot view of the entire dynamic...that is indeed what is partially wrong.  Many times, what is brought forth is set in the context of one specific incident rather than the entire dynamic.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 7:21:09 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

At what point does something become "clearly wrong"? 


When the person asking advice is extremely unhappy, and there is obviously a disconnect with being able to communicate that to the dominant...

I am not the type to post advice to end a relationship unless the person posting is stating they are unhappy and the person they are involved with does not seem to give a shit...but maybe they have an unhappiness kink?

quote:

I know I have seen things mentioned that I thought were abusive (think Daddy's prop and some of her writings) and have been told that it was part of their dynamic and she "had agreed" to it. 


She communicates she is happy... I see that as the difference.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 7:35:56 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

At what point does something become "clearly wrong"? 


When the person asking advice is extremely unhappy, and there is obviously a disconnect with being able to communicate that to the dominant...

I am not the type to post advice to end a relationship unless the person posting is stating they are unhappy and the person they are involved with does not seem to give a shit...but maybe they have an unhappiness kink?

quote:

I know I have seen things mentioned that I thought were abusive (think Daddy's prop and some of her writings) and have been told that it was part of their dynamic and she "had agreed" to it. 


She communicates she is happy... I see that as the difference.


Not really trying to be argumentative here julia...but does communication of happiness make the difference?  If someone communicates that they are happy overall, despite this one instance of "broughtforward" unhappiness BUT their post seems to indicate an ongoing pattern, then is the dynamic O.K.?  Or is the action O.K.?  Is that when we back off from saying that it is abuse or something else?  When happiness is communicated?

OP, what do you think?

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 8:09:25 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

...So how do we dispel those myths?...


we invite folks to experience Dominants, submissives and slaves hanging around en masse...a munch, a public playspace, convention, anywhere lifestyle folk congregate...an observant person will find out in a hurry that Sir Perfection and Misstress of Dreams are mere mortals that eat, drink, burp and go potty like everyone else.  strip away the facade of the computer screen.  when it's time to socialize, they might talk about their families, their jobs, their interests and hobbies...and eventually you find out that they are no more OR LESS trustworthy, honest or loyal than the next person by virtue of their orientation...just folk who share similar interests.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 8:24:48 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

Yes, they do, and so do some men.  But as someone else has already said, it's not a phenomenon in D/s relationships alone.
 
Some people are so desperate to be in a relationship, to be with someone, and not to be alone, that they will do amazingly stupid things and put up with more bullshit than they themselves can believe and they are the ones doing it. 
 
I know intelligent and educated women that believe that the reason their boyfriends only come over 1-2 nights a week sometime between 11pm and 3 am and never spend the night is because they are just busy.  There are men that wouldn't believe in 100 years that their wives are having affairs with their female friends.
 
Denial is powerful, it turns otherwise intelligent and sensible people into bumbling idiots.  If you want something bad enough, you can deny all of the truths that try to get in your way.
 
 
 


I echo this very much and then add what LA wrote about the following the herd aspect that this life does not create the issue but just has a look of a more formal way people fall into the trap.

So to me it is part just the human condition of insecurity and denial that can become unhealthy in many and then add a dash of using the life to cover up the actual issues. It far from lifestyle specific but like anything else this life can be used to try to cover it up.



_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to yourMissTress)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 8:28:02 AM   
probablyknowme


Posts: 1875
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline 		I have to agree with Mercnbeth. If more people got out from in front of their computers and socialized more with real actual people who live this dynamic, there would be a lot less romanticism surrounding this lifestyle.

While I appreciate CastleRealm for being a starting place for newbies to learn some of the theories concerning this lifestyle, I really think that it and others like it are doing the BDSM community more harm than good. The overly romantic views that they are putting out there don't really have a lot of bearing in real life. Dominants are sometimes tired, cranky, sick, or just not "on" and submissives are not always kneeling naked at their feet perfectly coiffed and waiting to satisfy the D-types slightest whim. Real life interferes, and sometimes you just have to muddle through...tedium relieved by moments of exhiliration is the most that many can hope for.

Okay a little off topic, I know, but that is my rant...sorry, y'all.

kat




_____________________________

The human mind is like a TV set. When it goes blank, it's a good idea to turn off the sound.
-Anon.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewcomersOK/


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 9:50:08 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Not really trying to be argumentative here julia...but does communication of happiness make the difference?  If someone communicates that they are happy overall, despite this one instance of "broughtforward" unhappiness BUT their post seems to indicate an ongoing pattern, then is the dynamic O.K.?  Or is the action O.K.?  Is that when we back off from saying that it is abuse or something else?  When happiness is communicated?



I am utterly convinced that I should take people at their word to how they feel about something... if they tell me they are happy, well I am not going to argue with them.

I have had too many people tell me that my way of interacting with my Man is somehow "wrong" and that I need to stop being submissive and stop desiring a controlling partner because to "them" it is abusive... I think it is condenscending to tell people how they should feel, but that is just what I think

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 9:59:49 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Erin - have to say, just replace that word with any other and you are sure to find people that do.  It's all to do with peer pressures and groups and fitting in, which most people have the urge to do and be better than everyone else instead of just being happy to be happy.
 
Julia - Just wanted to say - bang on with this!

quote:

I am utterly convinced that I should take people at their word to how they feel about something... if they tell me they are happy, well I am not going to argue with them.

I have had too many people tell me that my way of interacting with my Man is somehow "wrong" and that I need to stop being submissive and stop desiring a controlling partner because to "them" it is abusive... I think it is condenscending to tell people how they feel, but that is just what I think


Not only do we take their word, there is nothing we should feel we should do about it.  Each has their own responsibility.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 10:06:25 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Not really trying to be argumentative here julia...but does communication of happiness make the difference?  If someone communicates that they are happy overall, despite this one instance of "broughtforward" unhappiness BUT their post seems to indicate an ongoing pattern, then is the dynamic O.K.?  Or is the action O.K.?  Is that when we back off from saying that it is abuse or something else?  When happiness is communicated?



I am utterly convinced that I should take people at their word to how they feel about something... if they tell me they are happy, well I am not going to argue with them.

I have had too many people tell me that my way of interacting with my Man is somehow "wrong" and that I need to stop being submissive and stop desiring a controlling partner because to "them" it is abusive... I think it is condenscending to tell people how they should feel, but that is just what I think


Normally julia, I would agree with that line of thinking. However, I believe that while it is a good place to start, each circumstance has to be viewed independently and all extenuating circumstances taken into consideration. There are exceptions to every rule and the instance cited is an example of how there can be circumstances that require a deeper look which may exclude them from how we would normally respond.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 10:18:37 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Darcyandthedark
 
Julia - Just wanted to say - bang on with this!
 
Not only do we take their word, there is nothing we should feel we should do about it.  Each has their own responsibility.

 

 
If people tell me they are not happy, I am all ears to listen to them, but ultimately, we are all responsible for where we are in this life... I have no way of knowing how someone else really feels other than believing what they say.

quote:

mistoferin


Normally julia, I would agree with that line of thinking. However, I believe that while it is a good place to start, each circumstance has to be viewed independently and all extenuating circumstances taken into consideration. There are exceptions to every rule and the instance cited is an example of how there can be circumstances that require a deeper look which may exclude them from how we would normally respond.



I know the historical debate surrounding a certain slave..smiles.

Here is the thing, I have no way of knowing if she is even telling the truth about her life. I have no way of knowing how her master feels about her or how he views their dynamic since I have never seen him post and she has access to that account as well. I cannot ascertain anything about their relationship other than she states she is happy and it meets her needs.. now whether that is true or not, who knows?

Stockholm Syndrome is a real thing, perhaps there are cases in which a person cannot be taken at their word about how they feel... but as far as the internet goes, it really is all pixels and I DO take people at their word because 1) it does me no good not to 2) I have no way of knowing what the "truth" is.

My opinion might be different if I lived down the street from a submissive that I felt was suffering silently and needed help.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 10:30:54 AM   
Rushemery


Posts: 310
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLegs

Women so desperate for a "relationship" that they will do almost anything?




Where are they!?

(in reply to LadyLegs)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 1:45:08 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I am utterly convinced that I should take people at their word to how they feel about something... if they tell me they are happy, well I am not going to argue with them.

I have had too many people tell me that my way of interacting with my Man is somehow "wrong" and that I need to stop being submissive and stop desiring a controlling partner because to "them" it is abusive... I think it is condenscending to tell people how they should feel, but that is just what I think


Ditto, ditto, ditto, to everything you have said in this thread, particularly the above.  I find it extremely condescending for people to look at the snapshot of my life that I provided and decide what is best for me based on that.  In fact, a long time ago I started a thread, "I know better than your Master does" because I was frustrated by this type of situation.  How someone on a computer screen can know my needs better than the man who has been intimately part of my world for three years and knows every button there is to know about me, is beyond me. 

Ask questions to better your understanding?  Sure.  Ask if I've considered different ways of thinking?  Go for it!  But don't tell me how abusive a situation I am in because you will lose credibility with me from your ignorance of my situation (that's a generic "you" btw). 

As for your comment about boundaries, I completely understand that, as I had very few boundaries just a few years ago.  I was one of those "desperate" girls mentioned in the OP, and let anyone in, just to feel those few moments of "acceptance", however shallow they were.  Learning self worth, and boundaries to protect that worth did more for me than all the masses of criticism I received.  Because of that, if I see someone similar to how I was, I recognize they need to find their own path just as I did.  If it's someone I have an interest in, I will partake in as much conversation as I can, to better understand them before casting derogatory labels on them.

I once received a series of emails from someone in a matter of a few days, telling me how abusive my Master must be (going from the things I wrote here) and how I'm going to be very, very hurt, and I deserve that since I wasn't seeing it.  At the time (over a year ago), I was very disturbed, hurt and offended by this.  I have since had so much self discovery that I would shrug such comments off as ignorance and go on my way.  It was a good lesson for me, however, in beginning to understand how I communicate myself to others, and how utterly wrong perceptions about people might be, my own included.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 2:09:38 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Maybe there's a full moon or something but there certainly seems to be a rash of posts from women asking "is this right?" when describing a situation that they should very clearly know is wrong. Why is it that when a man claims to be a "Dominant", claims to be "teaching" you the lifestyle, claims that power exchange relationships mean that you must put up with shit that you would never, ever put up with normally, etc, etc,....women lose their heads and all of their common sense. Surely, grown adult women can not be this naive?


From my lofty tower of experience and grotty lessons learned, I have had less than generous thoughts ( and words) about people in the throws of stupidness. Shame on me, quite frankly.

How quickly I forget my own stupidity sometimes, and the horrible times I've struggled through, due to either a lack of, or a temporary abandonment of, of common sense.

I'm sorted, I'm sensible, my common-sense is intact and functioning...until the next time..........

agirl









(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 2:12:50 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
I'm sorted, I'm sensible, my common-sense is intact and functioning...until the next time..........


This made me grin.  Every time I comment on how clumsy someone is, for example, I almost immediately walk right into something.  That kind of thing happens to me all the time.  I think it's the universe's way of keeping me humble.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 6:45:47 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Not really trying to be argumentative here julia...but does communication of happiness make the difference?  If someone communicates that they are happy overall, despite this one instance of "broughtforward" unhappiness BUT their post seems to indicate an ongoing pattern, then is the dynamic O.K.?  Or is the action O.K.?  Is that when we back off from saying that it is abuse or something else?  When happiness is communicated?



I am utterly convinced that I should take people at their word to how they feel about something... if they tell me they are happy, well I am not going to argue with them.

I have had too many people tell me that my way of interacting with my Man is somehow "wrong" and that I need to stop being submissive and stop desiring a controlling partner because to "them" it is abusive... I think it is condenscending to tell people how they should feel, but that is just what I think


Normally julia, I would agree with that line of thinking. However, I believe that while it is a good place to start, each circumstance has to be viewed independently and all extenuating circumstances taken into consideration. There are exceptions to every rule and the instance cited is an example of how there can be circumstances that require a deeper look which may exclude them from how we would normally respond.
I have to agree with the stance that Creative and Mist has brought forth..and there are definitely exceptions to every rule..and frankly Julia there is a huge difference between you and the one referred to..Tempting

_____________________________

I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 6:47:58 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rushemery

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLegs

Women so desperate for a "relationship" that they will do almost anything?




Where are they!?


ROFL

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Rushemery)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 7:28:57 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		I blame the Old Guard.

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Do you lose your mind when you hear the word "... - 11/19/2007 8:00:47 PM   
RRafe


Posts: 2060
Joined: 8/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Maybe there's a full moon or something but there certainly seems to be a rash of posts from women asking "is this right?" when describing a situation that they should very clearly know is wrong. Why is it that when a man claims to be a "Dominant", claims to be "teaching" you the lifestyle, claims that power exchange relationships mean that you must put up with shit that you would never, ever put up with normally, etc, etc,....women lose their heads and all of their common sense. Surely, grown adult women can not be this naive?


It's what they get for thinking that castle realm means something-and being to stupid to realize that steroetypes are dumb.

Think for yourselves-or others will do it for you.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 39
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