Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (Full Version)

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MasterDoc1 -> Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/14/2007 9:54:34 PM)

Rolling Stone caught up with the seventy-two-year-old Texan in between votes at his day job in the House of ­Representatives.
(interview follows)
What do you make of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and current U.S. posturing toward Iran?

He's a loudmouth, and he hurts their cause. But we help his cause when we gang up against him. When we pass sanctions against him, the dissidents in Iran who would like to get rid of him rally around him for nationalistic reasons.
We get hysterical over a guy who doesn't have a single weapon, and nobody's proven that he's ever violated the arms-nonproliferation treaty. Matter of fact, the International Atomic Energy Agency is going to have an agreement with him by the end of the year. That's why you have all of this warmongering going on: It is to try to find an excuse to start bombing him before they prove that he doesn't have a chance of having a weapon. That's exactly what we did with Iraq. I'm scared to death they're getting ready to do that with Iran.
The Bush administration says Iran is supporting the Iraqi insurgency. How much can we trust that assessment?
About as much as what we heard about Iraq before the war. What was true about that? Very, very little, if anything. They're capable of telling us anything if they want to go to war. And that's what they want.
Whether the Iranians have helped the insurgency or not is almost irrelevant from my viewpoint. Why wouldn't they have an interest? It's like saying that if the Russians were in Mexico, we wouldn't have an interest in who wins that war. We'd have every right. They're the next-door neighbor.
But the administration alleges that the Iranians aren't just backing the Shia against the Sunni — they are complicit in the slaughter of our soldiers.
I haven't seen any proof of that. They're assuming that it's true, but that's part of the war hysteria that's going on.
Giuliani seems to be the warmonger in chief — leading the drumbeat for war with Iran. What would a Giuliani presidency mean for our national security?
If someone is unhappy with the Bush policy, they would find Giuliani's would be even more extreme. But since Giuliani is so anxious to go to war, somebody ought to ask him why he didn't go when he was called up instead of ducking it like some of those other chicken hawks — he took, what, four deferrals?
The kids today are expected to go because Giuliani likes this stuff. But whether it's Cheney or Giuliani, these guys think it's quite proper to go to war when they feel like it. But they never had to expose themselves.
In a recent debate, you blasted Mike Huckabee for supporting the war, saying we're only staying in Iraq "to save face." But wouldn't leaving Iraq be a propaganda victory for bin Laden?
Everything is much worse if we stay. Right now they're very content to bleed us in Iraq. Bleed us financially and by killing Americans. We lose lives, we spend money we don't have, it furthers our financial crisis. The longer we're there, the stronger Al Qaeda gets. Our being there is the greatest incentive ­conceivable to help Osama bin Laden. The evidence is very clear. There's more Al Qaeda now than before. Which means we're in greater danger of being hit by terrorists than before.
Besides, who are the people telling us there'll be problems if we leave? The same ones who said it would be a ­cakewalk. What kind of credibility do they have?
You talk about limiting the size of government. How much of the Pentagon's budget would you ax?
We are now spending close to a trillion dollars a year, when you add up every single thing we do overseas. You could start off easily cutting $100 billion. Bring the troops home, you could save $200 billion the next year. And maybe $250 billion the year after that.
Quit paying to blow up bridges in Iraq and then paying to rebuild them. Bring that money home. Our bridges are falling down. Our levees are falling down. The only way we can get enough money is by stopping this insane foreign policy of running this empire that we can't afford. Policing the world? It's impossible.
I say, just quit it. Let's come home. Bring the troops home. Quit spending the money. Get rid of selective service. Don't have the draft. And no more wars like this. It's a real tragedy and a real black mark on our record.
(end interview)
It's Ron Paul and Peace or ANYONE ELSE*** and ENDLESS war.
Don't make me laugh by suggesting Obama, Clinton, Edwards or any other candidate*** would end this war.
***Statement does NOT apply to anyone who believes with their BRAIN (not just their heart) that Kucinich or Gravel could be ELECTED.




popeye1250 -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/14/2007 10:07:24 PM)

He's right.
Tough to argue with that.
Guiliani would be business as usual.
Hillary is talking about "2013" for getting our Troops home.
Just leave.
Then the Iraqis have to get off their asses, sink or swim.
I don't want to spend another penny over there.




subfever -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/14/2007 10:57:13 PM)

You gotta admit... Paul is direct and honest. No sugarcoating or tap-dancing for political advantage. Quite refreshing, if you ask me.




MasterDoc1 -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/14/2007 11:21:56 PM)

Part of the key is this:
I say, just quit it. Let's come home. Bring the troops home. Quit spending the money. Get rid of selective service. Don't have the draft. And no more wars like this. It's a real tragedy and a real black mark on our record.

He's not like those left-wingers who are always inclined to view America in the worst possible light.
Instead he views this behavior as a recent aberration for a country which Robert A Heinlein described as "Generally having  the most moral foreign policy of any great nation in history".
All the more reason whyhe is willing to go for a decisive surgical procedure to remove this cancer that threatens our civil liberties AND our pocketbook!




subfever -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/14/2007 11:49:48 PM)

He's ready to employ more than one decisive surgical procedure, if given an opportunity! He's fully understands the structure of the PTB, and the enormous damage they're doing. He's quite willing to take them head-on and strip them of power, so he can level the playing field.

Of course, the PTB is well-aware of this, and will continue to create illusions to make it appear as though he's not even in-the-running.  




Lordandmaster -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/15/2007 1:09:10 AM)

He's principled.  I don't agree with all his principles, but sticks to them, so you know what you're voting for.  I don't think anyone who voted for Bush in 2000 realized what they were going to get.

What's refreshing is that he says what he actually believes.  None of the others do that because they think it's impossible to be elected that way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

You gotta admit... Paul is direct and honest. No sugarcoating or tap-dancing for political advantage. Quite refreshing, if you ask me.




Alumbrado -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/15/2007 6:41:51 AM)

Even if someone isn't going to vote for Paul , they need to admit to themselves that voting for Hillary, or Mitt, or Fred, et al. is voting to continue the war and the senseless loss of lives, as well as voting to continue the Patriot Act and other abuses of the Constitution, obscenities like 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell', corporate ownership of the government, and basically endorsing the status quo and 'business as usual'.




MasterDoc1 -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/16/2007 7:52:52 AM)

Good point, Alumbrado. It amazes me sometimes that people who are planning to vote for Edwards, Clinton or Obama seem to THINK they are voting against the war.
I also saw that delusion 3 years ago among people who voted for Kerry.

It's Ron Paul and Peace or ANYONE ELSE*** and ENDLESS war.
Don't make me laugh by suggesting Obama, Clinton, Edwards or any other candidate*** would end this war.
***Statement does NOT apply to anyone who believes with their BRAIN (not just their heart) that Kucinich or Gravel could be ELECTED.




popeye1250 -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/16/2007 8:21:06 AM)

Yeah, Hillary Clinton is talking about "2013" another SIX YEARS to get out of Iraq!
I'm still trying to find out when we're going to "be bringing the Troops home" from S. Korea!!!
Last night on the News they said that *20 more hospitals in inner cities* are near bankruptcy and Bush wants ANOTHER $60 B to rebuild Iraq?
Anyone ready to hit the streets and encircle Washington?




mnottertail -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/16/2007 8:24:41 AM)

Well, that is a built in for her having to be reelected for a second term....


LOLOL 




Real0ne -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/16/2007 8:39:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Yeah, Hillary Clinton is talking about "2013" another SIX YEARS to get out of Iraq!
I'm still trying to find out when we're going to "be bringing the Troops home" from S. Korea!!!
Last night on the News they said that *20 more hospitals in inner cities* are near bankruptcy and Bush wants ANOTHER $60 B to rebuild Iraq?
Anyone ready to hit the streets and encircle Washington?


2013?  Isnt that the same number the repubs put on it?

Yep thats what happens when we depend on the feds through entitlements.  I am not talking abou tthe individual either, I am talking about the states who buy into fed control and get entitlements in return.  Now they are drying up.

Last I also read somewhere that most of this rebuild money is simply vanishing.

It seems to me that on the most important issues facing this country the reps and dems in the final analysis are one in the same voice, and those same issues are  the ones dragging us into the ground.

I think Rp has a fundamental grasp at the roots level in what needs to be done to remedy the problems and I think he is for the people not just singing us the same old song and dance to get into power like the rest of these candidates are.







popeye1250 -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/16/2007 8:40:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well, that is a built in for her having to be reelected for a second term....


LOLOL 


Ron, she won't get a "first" with that "comprehensive immigration reform" (read "Amnesty") crap!




mnottertail -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/16/2007 8:45:12 AM)

I don't know--I would like to think she cant.....shivvers...

But I think that you could run a loaf of moldy bread and take the presidency.....there aint no way that there will be a republican president elected in my opinion.

And I am afraid that is what is running out there is moldy bread.

Ron




Real0ne -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/16/2007 8:57:51 AM)



now if the government wanted to push the nau what a better way to do it than to fill the country with mexicans and then give them all amnesty.

Whats different between the repub and dem agenda? 







subfever -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/16/2007 10:18:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Whats different between the repub and dem agenda? 




I don't buy into their stated or implied agendas. Aside from some rare exceptions, they're two-faced corporate whore pigs feeding at the same trough.

Gotta wonder why they even let Paul and Kucinich into their parties. 




luckydog1 -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/16/2007 11:08:52 AM)

Instead he views this behavior as a recent aberration for a country which Robert A Heinlein described as "Generally having  the most moral foreign policy of any great nation in history".

Which is of course nonsense.  America has done some nice things in the world, but only because it was in our self interest to do so.  One can argue that we have been relativly magnamous in victory, by historical standards, but that was because it was in our self intrest to do so.  Anyone who pretends otherwise is deluding themselves, as it seems to me most RP supporters are.  Heinlien is a fantasy writer, wrote some really great stuff, I used to devour Sci Fi, but do we really want policies based on Fantasy adn ignorance of History?  We exhibit zero morality to those in our way, and it has always been since day one.  Washington fought Genocidal wars of Annexation.  Jefferson sent troops to the mideast to enact regiem change for commercial reasons....




mnottertail -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/16/2007 11:11:24 AM)

<snip> but do we really want policies based on Fantasy adn ignorance of History? <snip>

Having that now, I would say a resounding no is in order, it isn't working why have another plateful?




popeye1250 -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/16/2007 11:25:32 AM)

If I were the Republican candidate for president I'd be ***Praying*** for Hillary to get the nomination!
"Pleeeease God!" lol




luckydog1 -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/16/2007 11:33:15 AM)

Thats a whole other debate Mnot, which I do not have time to do before work.  I do support the policy, but agree the implementation gets low marks.  

But if you want to return to something that never existed, your running on fantasy.   You do not strike me as someone so naive of history to think that America used to be all super nice and moral.  Washington had soldiers out skinning people alive to conquer Ohio.  Jefferson would laugh at the idea that torturing a "barbary" pirate was wrong, and he had cannons shelling children.  Both of them officially took hostages, as policy.  Monroe Doctrine, ect.  The "Non Intreventionist America" is pure fantasy.  It never existed for a single minute.   I do not worship Bush as people keep alledging, and I do not wear rose colored glasses




Aubre -> RE: Oppose the war? Read these 750 words (11/16/2007 1:55:37 PM)

I'm hoping Hilary gets the nomination for the simple fact that neither side will then find it necessary to campaign in the Deep South - we might actually have a quiet campaign year for a change.




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