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I've had enough... - 11/12/2007 7:17:26 PM   
Griswold


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On gas prices.

I've had entirely enough.

I'm done with this shit.

I could ask for a revolt ("everyone quit buying from Exxon...Shell...Mobil...ARCO....Chevron....").

It ain't gonna work.

I believe in free trade.  They got it...we want it....pay the fucking price.

Something's wrong here. 

I get "Architectural Record" among other magazines...in the latest issue of (AR) they showed some projects planned for Bahrain (the Middle East will build them) that included a hotel, like a glass bowl, sunk in the ocean, wherein which you stay and see, I presume, dolphins and various sea urchins while you sleep.

That's actually beyond cool.

A few weeks ago I saw a design for an 87 story building in Abu Dabai that actually can't be done

Can't be fucking done.  (Well, unless they threw a few extra billion at it...and prayed like hell).

(Ok....it can be done).

It's like an exctasy fest over there.

They're drunk on money.

(It's highly unusual).





< Message edited by Griswold -- 11/12/2007 7:24:37 PM >
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RE: I've had enough... - 11/12/2007 7:40:44 PM   
FangsNfeet


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Nice vent. Do you feel better now?

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/12/2007 7:52:16 PM   
dawntreader


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Its nice to see you around here,,,where have you been? Driving somewhere? LOL!!!

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It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
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There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 3:04:58 AM   
meatcleaver


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Come on! US gas prices are the envy of the western world.

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 4:42:56 AM   
pahunkboy


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Well- for what it is worth- I have cut down on driving.  Boycotts wont work, Only massive change in behavior.

I grasp your youthful awe- that anything is possible.  Dare to dream. The pendulum will swing the other way, but it is on our youth.  DARE to DREAM!  Thats what buildt American. Not- we cant.  Did Chicago get tall skyscapers by the word cant?  Nope. Someone says cant- the typical reply is "watch me!"

You may not be able to ascertain huge dreams. But start with something simple.

When our dreams die.; we in dead.  Period.

DREAM!

Our day in the sun isnt over. It is only just beginning.    DARE ME!

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 6:11:40 AM   
subrob1967


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And on this note, Cehvorlet just introduced it's full size Tahoe hybrid, which gets a whopping 20MPG city & highway.

All for the lovely low price of $38,000.

< Message edited by subrob1967 -- 11/13/2007 6:18:08 AM >

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 6:13:28 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

And on this note, Cehvorlet just introduced it's full size Tahoe hybrid, which gets a whopping 20MPG city & highway.

All for the lovely low price on $38,000.


Who the hell would pay more for a car- then a house?  argh. nevermind.

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 6:19:48 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

And on this note, Cehvorlet just introduced it's full size Tahoe hybrid, which gets a whopping 20MPG city & highway.

All for the lovely low price of $38,000.


That's the laugh about hybrids, you have to drive 100,000 miles before it starts becoming more economical than an ordinary economical compact and that is without all the extra energy that is used to build a larger car.

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 6:35:47 AM   
bipolarber


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If you are really fed up with high gas prices, I suggest you DO something about it instead of bitching. You can buy an ethenol conversion kit for your car for about $300... That at least will cut the amount of money you are shoveling into OPEC's pockets by 85%.... Or, (like me) you can buy an older model used diesel truck, swap the fuel lines out with neoprene, and start converting used cooking oil into biodiesel in your garage. (not 100% free, as some say, but the average price of equipment, chemicals, and collection brings the fuel cost down to about < $0.25 a gallon.) If you are interested, pick up the book "From the fry Pan to the Fuel Tank" available in most quality bookstores. It's the book that got me started. Then look online for plans for an "Appleseed Processor" the simplest form of biodiesel conversion equipment around.... then start collecting the stuff you'll need from the dump or flea markets: 50 gallon oil barrels, water heater elements, circulation pumps, etc.... (I built my rig for under $200.)

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 6:46:55 AM   
Politesub53


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How i wish fuel prices in the UK were as cheap as in the US. The average price here is now £1 a litre. Most of the cost goes not to the Arabs, but to our own treasury.

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 11:55:47 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

How i wish fuel prices in the UK were as cheap as in the US. The average price here is now £1 a litre. Most of the cost goes not to the Arabs, but to our own treasury.


IMO one big reason why alternitive fuels lag so behind- is there is no clear way to tax them. also=- it is a threat to the car/oil infastructure. If more money was made in reverse- we would see reverse...certainly at a faster pace then we now do.

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 12:59:40 PM   
Mercnbeth


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Below you can see your gas dollars at work; good "trickle down" economics; at least for Boeing.

However, before boycotting oil, in this instance at least; add to the boycott list Pepsi, Disney, Time, and Apple products, among others.

Another thing to ponder regarding switching to an alternative fuel source such as ethanol. A simple economic exercise if you will. Let's just say that at the price of oil is set at $100/barrel and that translates into a $4.00/gallon retail cost. The next administration comes in and announces a "comprehensive energy program". The private sector is given incentives to offset the start up cost and to create the infrastructure; domestic auto manufacturers are given similar incentives to covert their production to ethanol engines. In case it requires translation "incentives" means tax incentives with the difference made up from personal income tax sources (you and me).

The expected retail cost, anticipating a renewable as well as home grown source will be $4.25/gallon. Close enough and it makes the US self sufficient. Were I running OPEC, if this were close to becoming reality, I'd lower the cost per barrel to $50 until the idea blows over.

You see, there is no real cost for OPEC. It's whatever they feel like. There is no overhead. They charge whatever they want to Corporations like EXXON, or MOBIL who pump it, transport it, and pass the cost to the consumer - plus profit.

Any "comprehensive energy program" must include a fixed price floor for oil. I have no idea if the numbers I used are fiscally accurate, but in the example used, the fixed price for oil would be $100/barrel. Anything less than that would be paid as a tax by the oil company. That would keep the private sector invested in the conversion process and not abandon it as they did back in the 80's when President Carter's program was submarined by OPEC reducing the price during President Reagan's administration. However, I doubt any new Administration or Congress would consider that historical example. 

Meanwhile...
quote:

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) - In the annals of excess, it could be a new high: a more than $300 million dollar, super-sized luxury airplane, bought and outfitted solely for the private comfort of a Saudi Arabian billionaire.
Once done, the Airbus A380, the world's biggest passenger plane, will be a "flying palace" for Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, the manufacturer announced Monday. Airbus SAS would not give a specific price tag for the VIP double- decker jet, with its football field-length wings, saying only that it would cost more than the aircraft's list price of $320 million. That doesn't even include the money the prince will spend to custom fit the nearly 6,000-square foot plane to include whatever he wants. The options include private bedrooms, a movie theater or even a gym with a jacuzzi. He'll also need a flight crew of about 15 to operate the luxury liner. "Prince Alwaleed is the first, and so far the only customer of this aircraft," said David Velupillai, the spokesman of the Airbus, which announced the luxury order at the Dubai International Airshow. It's all just spending cash for bin Talal—Citigroup Inc.'s biggest individual shareholder and the world's 13th richest person with assets around $20 billion. As a member of the Saudi royal family, he benefits from the country's vast oil wealth. But much of bin Talal's huge fortune comes from his investment firm, the $25-billion Kingdom Holding Co., which has stakes in Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., Fairmont Raffles Hotels International Inc., Time Warner Inc., Apple Inc., PepsiCo Inc., Walt Disney Co. to name a few major corporations.

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 2:13:23 PM   
bipolarber


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

How i wish fuel prices in the UK were as cheap as in the US. The average price here is now £1 a litre. Most of the cost goes not to the Arabs, but to our own treasury.


IMO one big reason why alternitive fuels lag so behind- is there is no clear way to tax them. also=- it is a threat to the car/oil infastructure. If more money was made in reverse- we would see reverse...certainly at a faster pace then we now do.



Yeah, we need an alternative fuel research initiative....Oh, wait... we HAD one, didn't we? Under the Carter administration. The goal was to cut the US dependance on foreign oil sources by 20% by the year 2000... but it was shut down by Reagan and the GOP.

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 2:18:47 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

How i wish fuel prices in the UK were as cheap as in the US. The average price here is now £1 a litre. Most of the cost goes not to the Arabs, but to our own treasury.


IMO one big reason why alternitive fuels lag so behind- is there is no clear way to tax them. also=- it is a threat to the car/oil infastructure. If more money was made in reverse- we would see reverse...certainly at a faster pace then we now do.



Yeah, we need an alternative fuel research initiative....Oh, wait... we HAD one, didn't we? Under the Carter administration. The goal was to cut the US dependance on foreign oil sources by 20% by the year 2000... but it was shut down by Reagan and the GOP.


Solar was declared a failed experiment. :-(  Oil- the experts say will come down to $90 a barrel.  I do think we are running out- for the simple fact- that only so many people can gluttonly consume. IE- 300 million- vs- 600+ million or more.  There are limits to resources.

This sure has been poor public policy...

A simple thing like goods not overpackaged is one way to make a dent.  

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 2:30:02 PM   
Politesub53


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Not over packaging goods would also help with waste disposal problems. To be honest i dont think the oil industry or the UK governement want to see a loss of revenue, so alternative soloutions are kept on the back burner. Its funny to think diesel and not oil fired engines was thought of as a cheaper alternative to oil.

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 2:31:35 PM   
Crush


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Heck, my my motorcycle gets 55mpg, so other than really nasty days I ride.  Gives me something to look forward to after work ;)

And of course, living in Florida DOES help a lot....we get to ride 12 months a year instead of riding 3 months a year and polishing chrome like they do "up nawth."

Gas prices are higher...incrementalism, from what I can see.  But hey, it's $12/gallon in Germany, so I'm not bitching too loudly.


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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 2:56:18 PM   
bipolarber


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Solar was a failed experiment? Hardly! Thanks to research that was started during the Carter alternative energy initiative, we came up with amorphous photovoltaic cells... this cut the cost of a bank of cells by roughly 3/4 of what it used to be, while still maintianing the power output.

Did you happen to catch the "Frontline" episode a few weeks back on how Germany is pushing to make roughly 1/3 of it's electrical power come from solar by 2025? By the time they do, they will have spent approximately what we have for one month in Iraq. The thing is, of course, that the expenditure will pay itself back within five years, just on NOT having to buy fuel from outside their country.... and the collection grids are good for 25 years....not to mention the lower number of poper plants needed to be built, and avoiding the risk of nuke plants in the neighborhood...

Now there are a group of companies that are saying that they have come up with a PV shingle that will allow you to switch to solar the next time your roof gets hailed upon, with maybe an extra $2k for hookup, power regulator, and automatic switchover system to the grid.... (ie the PV shingles are roughly the same price as regular, non power generating asphalt) I don't know about you, but the thought of the money I'd pocket by just cutting my daytime grid draw during the summer months makes me drool...

A failed experiment? No, I don't think so... just one that has needed some more R&D to make viable.

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 3:00:11 PM   
pahunkboy


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Bipo, I am stating what "they" declared. [that] Solar was a failed experiment.  Maybe someone remembers that-where- the precise source.  ??  [anyone?]

Germany like other places- sure have the right idea. Sending troops doesnt solve every delemna. Eventually no troop will voluntter to go for Mattel...ERR i mean uncle Sam.

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 4:28:05 PM   
Griswold


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Nice vent. Do you feel better now?


Not bad.  A double Crown Royal would work wonders...but this helped.

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RE: I've had enough... - 11/13/2007 4:36:34 PM   
sophia37


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When youve had enough, really enough, you might start making changes to consume less in somw ways. So thats a good thing. 

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