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Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 8:21:54 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Dominance comes in multitude of flavours.  But yet we will see some Dominance as weak and others as strong.  Very much like a Magnet.. there are weak magnets and strong ones... regardless of the adjective.. it's still a magnet...

So... When you view dominance... what shows week dominance to you and what shows strong dominance....

below is a quote that express my thoughts on the issue.

quote:

  
Weak Dominance... preys on the weakness of the Submissive

Strong Dominance.. inspires submission by the admirable Character of the Dominant..



So your thoughts?

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.
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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 8:29:41 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Dominance to me in a Ds context is simply having authority.  Weak dominance would be not wanting or not using that authority effectively or perhaps even abusively.

Strong dominance would be wanting and using that authority in an effective and fulfilling way in the relationship.

Inspiring submission is always a tricky term- it suggests the sub gets to be a passive cup always being filled up by the time and if she isn't, she gets to whine that the dom isn't doing enough.  And yet, in good relationships I find everyone DOES inspire everyone, unelss everyone is just too burned out and needs a vacation.


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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 8:29:43 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

When you view dominance... what shows week dominance to you and what shows strong dominance....


nothing actually; i see a lot of passive/agressive behavior cloaked as dominance, and varying degrees of dominance,  but have never seen weak/strong dominance.

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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 8:48:53 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Dominance comes in multitude of flavours.  But yet we will see some Dominance as weak and others as strong.  Very much like a Magnet.. there are weak magnets and strong ones... regardless of the adjective.. it's still a magnet...

So... When you view dominance... what shows week dominance to you and what shows strong dominance....

below is a quote that express my thoughts on the issue.

quote:

  
Weak Dominance... preys on the weakness of the Submissive

Strong Dominance.. inspires submission by the admirable Character of the Dominant..



So your thoughts?

I can be in a room full of dominant personalities; know that each one of those personalities were strong and capable; yet, not a single one would ‘inspire’ submission within me.

Sometimes I think I am flawed; but for some reason; I respond to a man who has an edge of violence about him. It calls and connects with the violence that is within my own soul. A man like that; who you KNOW is dangerous and deadly; yet, is in such complete control of it; that is what causes me to go weak in the knees.

For myself, it’s all about his ability to control ME; totally, without reservation. I could not accept or settle for anything less. Someone like that, to me, is strong. Everyone else is weak by comparison. ( again, I want to stress that I am answering this only from my own perspectives and not making a statement of generalization )

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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 9:12:13 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Your example of weak dominance is a form of exploitation.  It's not difficult for someone to use a weakness to gain some form of control but it's entirely situational and precarious.

My idea of strong dominance is as your example; to be inspired to follow because of the character of the person.

I wouldn't have to be *owned* by M to follow him; I did so beforehand.  The only difference, now he does own me, is that he has the authority to insist.

agirl















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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 9:53:25 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		When he's overtired, his dominance is weaker. When he isn't overstressed and focuses on me, it's very strong. Same as with my submission, it ebbs and flows. I'm a lot more submissive when we're deeply focused on each other than I am while running horse blankets to the laundromat.

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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 10:18:28 AM   
LaMspeach


Posts: 794
Joined: 12/4/2004
From: Philadelphia area, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

So your thoughts?


In my experince and mind the ones that had to run around exclaiming how dominate they are were never all that.

Weak Dominance=  Chest pounding, self proclaimed " i am  Dom hear me roar"  (If you have to tell anyone, are you really Domanate ?)  insecure

Strong Dominance  = Self assured, secure in who they are, observant , inspiring,  having a presence about them that needs no word.

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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 10:24:39 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I'm not sure it's so black and white.  We're all weak and strong in various areas of our make up.  But as an over-all, I can see where one can be viewed as strong or weak.

I think your definitions are too limiting, though.  Maybe mine are too broad: 

Weak = Doesn't know how to get the most of his/her submissive and create the best dynamic possible.
Strong = Does know.

My Master used my weaknesses as well as my strengths to develop what we have, although I wouldn't say he "preyed."  He may have creatively exploited them, though, and I see nothing wrong with that since the outcome has been phenomenal.

Like agirl, I submitted to Master prior to him owning me.  I don't quite like the word "inspired," though, for much the same reasons LA stated.  I feel his power, and I respond to it, both actively and passively.  Since I know his power, I know what he is capable of, and I love who he is as a man, it is my strongest desire to submit completely to him in all ways.  You say inspired; I say internally driven.  Perhaps they're one in the same, if not at least very similar.

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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 10:25:10 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I'm going to take a bit from you, KnightofMists, and a bit from LuckyAlbastross to draw upon for my answer.

I think that in a DS relationship it is about authority far more than power. However before you get into a DS relationship we each may consciously or unconsciously use our personal power to inspire the other person to want to be with us and begin the journey of DS.

An abusive or weak person may use their power to mask their motivations while a strong or positive person will be clear in their motivations. Thus a strong dominant person has positive motivations that should benefit both people or anyone frankly who interacts with them while a weaker dominant person is attempting to make up for some lack they feel by gaining authority from another or even attempting to take power from them.

That's my opinion.

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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 12:53:34 PM   
Domisub111


Posts: 14
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		It's a predisposition and a process. Dom or sub is neither weak or strong, right or wrong. Depends on the dynamic of the relationship.

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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 1:08:28 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Many things to say on this however I will only offer what I feel toward the question.

I see that dominance is neither strong or weak, rather that it is individualized. I have always seen it like a set of keys.

Many Keys look similar but won't open the same locks. Some Keys are Copies and don't quite trun the lock as easily as what it was copied after but with constant use turn the tumbler earier over time. Some Keys are for specific types of locks and won't fit into every type of lock let alone turn them.

I have met guys who's idea of Dominance is telling girls to suck thier cock while they play X-Box and then telling them to masturbate with a StarWars Figurine while the Spank thier Wookie. Now I have also met the submissives that are DEDICATED to these guys, no not just obedient to them but DEDICATED to them, now one would say that they have a weak dominance but I have met slaves more dedicated to thier Weak Master than some of the International Masters and slaves I have known.

Point is when a Key finds it's lock it just works and no matter who says otherwise it works for that key and that lock.

I am a specific key that works in a few different locks, but not all of them, I am not a strict and order throwing chest pounding megalomaniac, but I have my moments. and I am not a sniveling sex driven pervert either, but again I have my moments, what I am works for me and my slave.

Just took some time to try enough locks till I found the ones that I work in.

As Always

Steel

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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 2:08:00 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I have to admit that I have an unfortunate kneejerk reaction to what I see as strong or weak dominance.

It is probably not surprising that what I see as weak, reflects personal characteristics that  I find distasteful.What I see as strong dominance reflects the dominant I want to be when I grow up. 

The reality is as others have stated, is really only what is reflected in the eyes of the observer. What one person see's as strength, another will possibly see as a weakness. What are high standards for me, my be irrelevant for someone else.

I think that the ability to look at oneself and see not only the good qualities but also faults, to admit fault, as a strength. I also find a sense of humour, even at personal expense, to be a strength. Taking life and yourself, too seriously....not so much a strength, in my eyes. Some submissives, and dominants, may not agree with me. I've seen some that feel, admitting any weakness or fault, is a weakness. To me, it is just being human. And on and on.

Regardless of my own personal feelings, I don't think it's that simple. The answers are probably going to be as varied as the qualities each submissive and slave wants in their own dominant.

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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 4:35:46 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

Strong Dominance.. inspires submission by the admirable Character of the Dominant.

This made me think of the charismatic leaders who can get people to follow them, so I'm wondering if charisma = dominance? Or, was Hitler a dominant?


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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 5:16:42 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		My answer is a bit of a Zen one and a bit paradoxical.

I think of weak dominance as something that is forced or a struggle as opposed to strong dominance which is peaceful and smooth and flows without any struggle or exertion.



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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 5:42:40 PM   
Phin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Many things to say on this however I will only offer what I feel toward the question.

I see that dominance is neither strong or weak, rather that it is individualized. I have always seen it like a set of keys.
I really like your explanation.

Another thought on the streanth of the Dominance is the ability and wisdom of the Dom.

Knight, since you are the OP, I will use you as an example. Knight has quite a bit of experience as a Dom, and from what I have seen here he has a quite and natural steangth to him.

On the other end of that spectrum is me. I am relatively new to the lifestyle and even newer to considering my self a Dom.

Knight is, at this point, a better, stronger Dom than I. In comparison to Knight, my dominance is weak. Even with this said, my dominance is not a bad dominance, it just needs the pillars of experience and knowledge to make it strong.

Phin


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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 6:22:19 PM   
TethersEnd


Posts: 102
Joined: 1/29/2007
Status: offline 		Dominance as I receive it can vary only after I acknowledge it. 
I perceive faults such as a lack of follow through as weakness,
and in reverse, staying on track with a goal in mind as a strength. 

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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 6:30:30 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I have to admit that I have an unfortunate kneejerk reaction to what I see as strong or weak dominance.

It is probably not surprising that what I see as weak, reflects personal characteristics that  I find distasteful.What I see as strong dominance reflects the dominant I want to be when I grow up. 

The reality is as others have stated, is really only what is reflected in the eyes of the observer. What one person see's as strength, another will possibly see as a weakness. What are high standards for me, my be irrelevant for someone else.

I think that the ability to look at oneself and see not only the good qualities but also faults, to admit fault, as a strength. I also find a sense of humour, even at personal expense, to be a strength. Taking life and yourself, too seriously....not so much a strength, in my eyes. Some submissives, and dominants, may not agree with me. I've seen some that feel, admitting any weakness or fault, is a weakness. To me, it is just being human. And on and on.

Regardless of my own personal feelings, I don't think it's that simple. The answers are probably going to be as varied as the qualities each submissive and slave wants in their own dominant.


I agree completely with this post.  In my eyes one of the most important measures of a quality person, regardless of role is admitting fault and working on it.  I think it's a very strong characteristic in a Dom/me.  Someone that gets blinded by dogma and stereotypes of roles and forgets that there are two actual live people in the equation would be my idea of a weak Dom/me.  However, oddly I see often people saying things all the time that indicate this dogmatic attitude is considered strong by them. 

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When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 6:34:32 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phin


Knight is, at this point, a better, stronger Dom than I. In comparison to Knight, my dominance is weak. Even with this said, my dominance is not a bad dominance, it just needs the pillars of experience and knowledge to make it strong.



Thanks for everyone that posted so far.. This post and a few others made me think.....

Strength and Weakness are by themselves not postive or negative.  It is the context of the Strength and/or Weakness that will denote positive or negative... or maybe a better term would be Ethical or Unethical.

A person could be a Weak Ethical Dom.... as Phin relates... it's a question of experience and knowledge that makes him weaker in his eyes.  Of course... is it a weakness.. well.. only if you consider Experience and Knowledge a key descriptor.. but.. All Ethical Dominants start in the beginning.. and this beginning is a place of weakness from where they grow too in which they become stronger.   

So.. Weakness in of itself doesn't equate to being a bad thing.. I think can.. but not in all cases.  

It really does come down to what descriptors one uses to describe Dominance... and submission as well.   It is a subjective to everyone... as can be seen from this thread... there is some variations on what is seen.

yes I agree.. we each lock there is a key... but sometimes the locks can be cheap... so could the keys for that matter.  Better locks and better keys... Stronger or Weaker is a personal preference.  However,  just because we see one as a strong lock doesn't equate that our key will fit that lock.. or that we even want to fit that lock.  I think we can admire quality and strength even if they are not compatible to us.  Hell... I can even admire another Key like myself...

I enjoy being around quality individuals... a quality that is subjective to my preferences...  being around them doesn't equate to them being submissive to me.  Friends and Peers are part of a type of relationship that can be rather enriching that doesn't have to be intimate.  Intimacy is pretty damn good... but  Do we need more than just Intimacy?  for many the answer would be yes.  The people we bring into our life will all have varying strengths and weaknesses.. hopefully on the whole of it... they contribute to our life positively as we contribute positively to theirs.


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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 6:34:45 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phin


quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Many things to say on this however I will only offer what I feel toward the question.

I see that dominance is neither strong or weak, rather that it is individualized. I have always seen it like a set of keys.
I really like your explanation.

Another thought on the streanth of the Dominance is the ability and wisdom of the Dom.

Knight, since you are the OP, I will use you as an example. Knight has quite a bit of experience as a Dom, and from what I have seen here he has a quite and natural steangth to him.

On the other end of that spectrum is me. I am relatively new to the lifestyle and even newer to considering my self a Dom.

Knight is, at this point, a better, stronger Dom than I. In comparison to Knight, my dominance is weak. Even with this said, my dominance is not a bad dominance, it just needs the pillars of experience and knowledge to make it strong.

Phin



Phin, I agree KoM is a good guy and obviously experienced and well-reasoned on most issues involving d/s.  However, I think you might be selling yourself short.  Trust me there are some guys who have been  around the world and back and are still weak in my eyes.  They lack wisdom and don't see beyond themselves.  There are also some newbies like yourself who have a balanced, caring, inquisitive, intelligent approach who I consider much stronger than those old-timers. 

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: Dominance... Weak or Strong? - 11/10/2007 7:02:27 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		When I first entered the scene years ago the people who I thought at the time were the most dominant are likely the ones I would look at today and see as the least dominant and the reverse is true as well.

A couple of people have likened "dominance" to a key and I think that is also apt.  My style clearly works for some and most definitely doesn't work for others.  Same goes for other's styles, there are people who it works on and others for whom it doesn't.

Its like blonds and brunettes, some people love one or the other, one "dominates" their response more than the other but one isn't "stronger" than the other, just different.

As I have grown older and matured and my skills as a dominant have grown, I have less need to control and gain more control by doing "less", a slight gesture, a subtle change in my voice, a glance does far more for me now than being a far more active and demanding dominant did for me when I was younger. 

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