RE: Survival of the Strongest! and the Weak......

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RE: Survival of the Strongest! and the Weak...... - 11/2/2007 11:42:20 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

Some people are happy to stay in hell because they know all the street names.

I may have to borrow this for my sig file. Original?

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Post #: 41

RE: Survival of the Strongest! and the Weak...... - 11/3/2007 12:27:57 AM

FullfigRIMaam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
Today.. we have capitalizism. The stronger/smarter companies make more money and the weaker ones disappear in the dust

I don't really like your example here unless you equate lying, cheating, sacrificing the uninformed in favor of greedy common, albeit rich thieves with strength...

Anyway, I think your question was

quote:

How many times do we have save a person from themselves... should we just let the wolves have them.

I would help save someone who was informed and interested in being saved once, and help them with information a second time, but never again meddle in their drama.
I was never called after a first date once... This gentleman told me he kept sending money to save his sister from her allegedly abusive husband again and again; she would break up and leave, only to return within weeks; I told him he should realize she probably enjoys all the beating and attention, and should leave her alone in her marriage. He looked at me like an evil psycho, and I looked at him like "you sucker." I am fairly patient, kind, benevolent, and think we all ought to do our best to help our fellow human beings, especially when they are in need... But I have limited patience for people who love and need drama, and insist on pulling me down into it with them. JMO, YMMV, M

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RE: Survival of the Strongest! and the Weak...... - 11/3/2007 12:34:35 AM

Padriag

Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

RRafe gives a common thought of the stupid or dangerous Tops that we as a community do indeed weed out. But then there are situations that happen recently at an event that I had attended. A person attending the event felt it was ok to bring a Minor into a vending area. What do you do?

I'd start by expressing my concern and disapproval of their choice in that particular instance. Were that not sufficient I'd notify whoever was in charge of the event of the situation and make it clear that if they didn't correct the situation I'd feel compelled to remove myself from the event... permanently. If they didn't act, I'd make good on that... afterall at that point their putting me at risk by tolerating a situation that could quite possibly draw negative consequences.

quote:

Sometimes the Weak do indeed put the whole at risk... Sometimes we need to cut the weak from the herd.

The question becomes... who is the weak that needs to be cut... when do you cut them.... I liked RRafe's statement that we give compassion to those that doesn't waste it... but it is making the judge of who will waste it and how will not.... not so easy a choice at times

If it were easy it'd take all the fun out of it.

Like Rafe, I believe there are those worth helping and those who aren't. I apply that in dealing with people in general. So far as this lifestyle specifically is concerned... I've kept a certain distance from it precisely because the "community" can be volatile, divided and risky... and a risk to me. I'm one of those who views the "community" as a convenient resource. But it doesn't aid either my survival or help me thrive. I know that were it to vanish tomorrow I'd do just fine. I have no personal need for this "lifestyle" to be mainstream, public or popularized. If it happens, that's fine, but I'm just as well without it. In other words I'll help the "community" provided it remains a useful resource to me and doesn't put me at risk. But, should it overstep either of those boundaries I can just as easily do without it. And should this "community" directly put my personal life at risk... well.... I can be ruthless when I need to be.

That's probably a far more mercenary attitude than most would be comfortable with. Life's taught me some harsh lessons, and I learned to be a good student.

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A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

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RE: Survival of the Strongest! and the Weak...... - 11/3/2007 5:52:21 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: insistentone

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

However, there is significant numbers that do desire to popularize it. Numbers that are more noticeable at community events and such.

And all of the books, the classes,the public demonstrations. I know, I know, they only want to help others do it right...BS. Here we are, here is what we do, here is how to do it right, everybody do come in if you wish....popularization of the lifestyle as as much or more to do with all of this going on than does a do-gooders desire to "educate" the ignorant.

So OK Knight...What has this to do with your OP? Is the lifestyle open door policy to everybody the primary problem? Do we need to get into the moral dilemma of help/not help at all if we can solve the problem with better self selection of who is in the group?

Here is my thought, people should do what makes them happy as long as it doesn't harm others. If they harm others, then they should be held responsible for that harm by either the "community" or by law enforcement if the harm they did was that great.

I am not a "joiner" though, primarily because I find that any group of people are going to have those who try to control or lead, or those who gossip, or those who love drama; alas the human condition. I suppose I believe people should do what makes them happy, and if it makes them happy to include more people to have more fun, then that is what they should do. Those who find more inclusion something they do not value should find other like minded people to associate with...

I am a freedom loving submissive. I love it when people are free to be, do, and have what they want and fulfill themselves. Any expertise or knowledge I have ever possessed I gave freely and joyfully, and I am knowledgeable about a good many things (non-BDSM knowledge). Your position is one that I have found in academia... those who look down on the popularizing of their academic discipline. This is very prevalent in anthropology because those who write popular books I looked down upon.

There are many subcultures within the main BDSM subculture... and for the very reason that some do not like the way that the larger community does things. It is probably more beneficial to focus on what is wanted by people of similar values and beliefs than it is to try to get others that enjoy newbies from disseminating what they know in an attempt to make the community a better place.

I do not consider people that are into mentoring and educating as "good doers", people like that (which I am one of them) tend to have a teaching fetish... we love to teach... it is why I want to become a professor.

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RE: Survival of the Strongest! and the Weak...... - 11/3/2007 6:59:30 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I recall in the Greek times they took new born babies and left them alone to survive the night. Their survival was a demonstration of their strength... a strength that was valued for the society they lived in. Today.. we have capitalizism. The stronger/smarter companies make more money and the weaker ones disappear in the dust. It seems this mindset of Strength in whatever form is wanted and valued within humanity... of course there is efforts to protect the weak but do we want to ?

What about our lifestyle. How many times do we have save a person from themselves... should we just let the wolves have them. Are we just enabling these individuals and as such making a weaker community as result... or are we stronger as result?

What are your thougths?

I don't view the way I live as *our lifestyle*; it's mine and mine alone, so I don't have a sense of community here or anywhere else in a *bdsm* way. I can't say that I care very much how others fare in a *lifestyle* way, unless they are in my life to a significant degree.

I rarely see people as inherently weak or strong. Most people have times when they are weaker, or have aspects in which they are weak and ditto with being strong.

When it comes to offering a hand of help or saving someone, it really comes down to what I'M prepared to do (what type of help), what my own motives are, whether I can actually make a difference, whether I view it as the *right* thing to do, how much stamina I have, whether I'm responsible for them in some way and what the person means to me.

agirl

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RE: Survival of the Strongest! and the Weak...... - 11/3/2007 9:53:16 AM

LATEXBABY64

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It is through our own trials and tribulations that we grow. Having the knowledge to make good choices is what life is all about (IF someone wants to do SOMething STupid THey WIll DO It Any Way )

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Post #: 46

RE: Survival of the Strongest! and the Weak...... - 11/3/2007 10:35:08 AM

bipolarber

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We could try making this subject a bit more specific:

But first: On the whole, I don't think we try to make BDSM a popular lifestyle. However, a good many in the media use us as a quick, sensationalistic way of selling their goods. Madonna, CSI, NCIS, several video games, and god knows how many fashion magazines pump our images out like lighthouses. As such, without even intending to do so, we ger glamorized by the media. That's what's been fueling the surge in interest. Not because of anything the community at large is trying to do. We're a cool, underground, seemingly "wild" subculture... and that appeals to a lot of people. Others latch onto us because they think that by adopting a BDSM persona, they've found a whole new way of picking up potential partners. Stil others come to us because they are looking for a way to keep sex and interpersonal relations hot and passionate, in the post-AIDS era. The fact that you can have a great evening of sexual intensity level fun, and never once exchange bodily fluids is appealing to a good many!

No, to get to the OP's question, and to make it a bit more "real world..." Suppose we noticed a fairly new top has joined our community. We notice, at several play parties that this guy is acting in a typical, fantasy-based manner, and generally making an ass of himself. Do we take it upon ourselves to pull him aside, and let him know how he's fucking up?

Okay, same situation, only now the guy is convincing some newbie subs that he's the best thing in topping since strawberries on ice cream. Yet, the rest of us notice him wrapping the whips, and her hands obviously losing circulation... Do we step in?

Third situation, same guy.... so far, he's fooled everyone with his "I've just moved here, and I have 10 years of expereince" story. We find out the day after the party that the girl he went home with is now in the hospital, with a fracture, lots of deep impact bruising and a couple of lacerations due to some poor knife play.... do we throw him to the wolves? (ie... co-operate with the cops in arresting him?)

Personally, I'd say:
1) No. Don't tell him until he's finding himself very lonely, and asks for advice. Any attempt to help him out before then will only cause resentment on his part. Besides, mistakes like this you have to live through in order to learn anything from them. (IMO)
2) Damn right we step in! Especially if the DM is not doing their job by stepping in as they should...
3) Oh, yes. Sorry, but if some idiot hurts someone I know, maybe even a friend, then they get what the deserve. I'd happily hand over his name, address, a copy of the waivier he signed at the door, and allow the cops to take DNA samples from the toys he used.

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Post #: 47